It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by scorand
u'r assuming that all the soldiers there are criminals.
. there are valid reasons to be in afganistan.. the taliban for instance.. whom i believe are helping terrorist.. and are in fact terrorists themselves..so whos really the criminal here..
and as far as iraq.. well the reasoning behind going there is wrong but thereinlies a delima.. sadam murdered hundreds of thousands. sometimes entire villages.. he, the taliban and the extremist who do these things are the real criminals...
and there is no reasoning with them.. sometimes you have to stand and fight...
Originally posted by jerico65
Wrong again. You're having a hard time reading what I type. I'll try to make it simple
If you're a soldier, and you decide on your own that the war is illegal and tell the commanding officer that you're not going to go, you will be thrown into jail. Simple.
40,000 Americans did what in 1941? Resist the draft? Not sure what you're referring to.
You've obviously haven't been to a military prison before.
It does pertain to being a CO. We have a volunteer military; if you don't want to fight, but to serve, you need to bring that up prior to any sort of conflict. You just can't play that card whenever you decide to.
Take the "Bush stole the election" bullcrap to another thread.
Supreme Court made the rules for being classified as a CO. If someone doesn't like it, they can file a complaint, etc.
Legal protection? The protection is for the soldier in case he come up against something like that. It's called, "planning ahead".
And in 26+ years of being in the military, I've never been given an illegal order, never heard one given to another troop, and never gave one myself.
If a guy doesn't want to go to war, just don't enlist. No one is twisting his arm.
Originally posted by StellarX
And my point ( and i quote) was " So what"? So what if they want to illegally imprison you? Is that not better than taking part in an illegal war against a nation that never attacked you or threatened to do so? What can do they beside take your benefits and pay away and if that's your concern what sort of person are you any ways?
Originally posted by StellarX
Yes, 40 000 became conscientious objectors with 5000 being imprisoned for various draft offenses. The vast majority just 'bought' injuries and various deferments or refused to register just like people did in the civil war and first world war.
Originally posted by StellarX
So rather go to war and risk dying while possibly engaging in war crimes to have your sensibilities offended by being imprisoned for adhering to international and general standards of human decency? According to your logic we should all just take the path of least resistance and do what we can get away with......
Originally posted by StellarX
Just the truth and quite reasonable when you wish to argue that the Supreme court can change international agreements at will and without consulting the American public.
Originally posted by StellarX
It has nothing to do with planning ahead as these of crimes happened , and continues to happen, in all wars American or otherwise. Don't give me this nonsense about planning ahead when these rules had to be forced on the military by it's citizen soldiers.
Originally posted by StellarX
And with the lack of comprehension you have displayed so far i doubt you could have figured out the difference unless someone in fact asked you to line up some kids against a wall. Since i am not surprised that this does not in fact take place very often in the American army the million odd violent Iraqi deaths clearly came from artillery and aerial bombardment which didn't require American soldiers to risk their cowardly human behinds (and rightly and intelligently so i might add as human beings don't like dying and certainly not in pointless wars defending no one but themselves)as they drop bombs from distances where the targets couldn't be seen and collateral damage were guaranteed. What people don't realise is that this is still a crime and that people may still be brought up on charges if they can be shown to have shelled civilian areas.
Originally posted by StellarX
You are in my opinion a near perfect argument for why we should replace human beings with war robots as soon as we can so that we can videotape everything and check that laws are being obeyed instead of relying on men who will do what their told ( or want) to save their own behinds. So very patriotic the brave souls who want to fight so badly and then shell entire enemy cities from afar so as to best make sure they they don't get hurt. We could just as well put you in control of that war robot so you can get your kicks without being able to commit war crimes or get hurt in the process of 'defending your country' without risking any penalties in terms of getting yourself blown up or shot . We would be so lucky to be able to do away with the type of 'professionalism', that standing armies can result in when the population is not in control of government, that so absolutely reeks of hypocrisy and self serving ignorance.
Originally posted by StellarX
As for Saddam Hussein he was very much the kept man and he could have been kept in line with stern warnings instead of being tricked into a invasion of Kuwait which then allowed the US to gain permanent bases in many middle eastern countries.
Originally posted by StellarX
Actually you can reason with any and all world leaders as unreasonable men do not get into positions of real power. Sure they might not listen but or do what your asked but choosing not to 'reason' with the leaders of other nations is clearly a decision not to give them any chance to discuss the reasonable solution for both countries.
It pisses me off that something like this happens. Soldiers who served their country are being disrespectful by the people at home who depend on them to protect them when they do not volunteer to do what they do.
Or is it possible that soldiers have the tendency to destroy property than non-combatants do at hotels?
Originally posted by manicmark
Good, They should ban all soldiers from everywhere. Then they might stop fighting with each other. The soldiers dont seem to realise, if they said NO to thier masters, there would be no war. I dont like military people much, the just seem hell bent on controlling every situation, much like the police do.
I feel the world is becomming more and more like a primary school play ground, with the bullies taking control.
I just dont understand how anyone can be nasty to anyone else.
Good, They should ban all soldiers from everywhere. Then they might stop fighting with each other. The soldiers dont seem to realise, if they said NO to thier masters, there would be no war. I dont like military people much, the just seem hell bent on controlling every situation, much like the police do.
I feel the world is becomming more and more like a primary school play ground, with the bullies taking control.
I just dont understand how anyone can be nasty to anyone else.
Originally posted by deltaboy
British soldier refused access to hotel cause hes a soldier.
news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)
A soldier home on leave after being injured in Afghanistan was refused a room by a hotel when he showed his military ID card at reception.
Corporal Tomos Stringer, 23, from Gwynedd, was visiting a wounded colleague in Surrey when he was turned away from the Metro Hotel in Woking.
He spent the night in his car after being told it was management policy not to accept military personnel.
The hotel has apologised, describing the incident as "a mistake".
Cpl Stringer, of 13 Air Assault Support Regiment, The Royal Logistic Corps, has since returned to Afghanistan but his mother, Gaynor Stringer, said he remains angry at the incident.
Originally posted by Backwoods
Ok deep breath.....
Now first off I was not aware of the banning of military because they were a target from the IRA. Interesting that in a whole different manner.
So that makes the clerks screw up more understandable. I have also been given to understand that they had to disconnect their phone service because of the reaction to this has been hot and heavy.
As for the .......posters saying that they are fighting an illegal war and they deserve what ever they get as they are war criminals.
I am sure then that you are refusing to pay taxes to your governments right? After all then you would be supporting the governments that started the illegal war.
Jail for tax evasion? Well that is the price that you expect them to pay how is it any different for you?
Waits for the moral equivations to start
Originally posted by jerico65
Stern warnings? Like the UN resolutions that he broke time and time again?
How many did he break? And you know Kofi and his family were getting plenty of kickbacks from the "oil for food" program. No wonder Kofi was pissed we went to war; the paychecks stopped.
Really? Stalin was a reasonable kinda guy? Hitler? Kim Jong-Il? Pol Pot? Idi Amin?
Originally posted by StellarX
Stalin was a reasonable kinda guy.
In fact i have no reason to believe that any of those people were 'unreasonable' in that they did not have the capacity to reason.
If you can provide some reasons as to how unreasonable people get to become presidents of country i am ALL ears.
Stellar
Originally posted by Retseh
Did someone really just say that. The Stalin that was the instigator of the Ukrainian genocide, the man who personally orchestrated his policy of "troika" in Mongolia where tens of thousands were also murdered as suspected Japanese spies.
The same Stalin who in a typical moment of insanity ordered the assasination of John Wayne because of his anti-communist movies (the order was later rescinded by Kruschev).
That Stalin was a reasonable guy ??!!??
You live in Africa and seriously need to ask that question. With the possible exception of Paul Kagame, Africa doesn't have ANY leaders who rose to power through being "reasonable".
Your own dear leader, the strangely venerated Mandela was a terrorist, hardly the epitome of a reasonable attitude.
Although he does do a nice jig whenever a banjo strikes up, so he could be called a reasonable dancer.