British soldier refused access to hotel cause hes a soldier.

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I don't really want to debate 'off topic', but I disagree entirely with what I think you're trying to say.

First of all.. How can there be an 'absolute universal moral imperative'?

Secondly.. I served as a British soldier for 22 years and was never required to perform an immoral act.. though I may have prevented many.

Finally.. My morality is absolutely no business of yours to question.

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reply to post by Myrdyn

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How can there not be?



I have been a soldier for 23 years and all my acts were immoral as were all those of my colleagues. -- This to illustrate why the argument of authority is a bad choice. One reason anyhow, there are others.



Says who? That in and of itself is an immoral statement. Neatly done. Was it intentional?

Please remember the Armed Forces are not just there for defence of the realm, they are also there to enact the foreign policy of the UK Government, that was elected by the very people who are complaining about the war. Don't take it out on the individual soldier for doing his job. By doing so, and calling them murderers you have not only offended me and my friends who are still serving, but also those that have served in various other conflicts throughout the world.

You seem to forget the humanitarian work that the Armed Forces carry out... its not all just about killing. I hope you never need the services of the RAF SAR Squadrons when walking in the hills or out at sea, or the assistance of the Army should your village flood. If you do, please turn them away and refuse the help.

Here's a good poem, attributed to an unknown author from WW2:

FINAL INSPECTION

The soldier stood and faced his God
Which must always come to pass
He hoped his shoes were shining
Just as brightly as his brass

"Step forward now you soldier,
How shall I deal with you?
Have you always turned the other cheek,
And to my church have you been true?"

The soldier squared his shoulders and said,
"No Lord, I guess I ain't,
Because those of us who carry guns,
Can't always be saints

"I've had to work most Sundays
And at times my talk was tough
And sometimes I've been violent
Because the streets were awfully rough"

But I never took a penny,
That wasn't mine to keep
Though I worked a lot of overtime
When the bills just got to steep,

And I never passed a cry for help
Although, at times I shook with fear
And sometimes, God forgive
I've wept unmanly tears

I know I don't deserve a place
Among the people here
That never wanted me around
Except to calm there fears

If you have a place for me here O' Lord
It needn't be so grand
I've never expected, or had so much
But if you don't I'll understand"

There was a silence all around the throne
Where the Saints had often trod
As this soldier waited quietly
For the judgement from his God

"Step forward now you soldier,
You've borne your burdens well
Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
You've done your time in Hell"

Also check out "Tommy" by Rudyard Kiplin, as true today as it was back then.

I wish I could live in the wishy washy world of some posters where the military aren't needed to do anything more than stand around looking pretty in uniform...

Luckily the hotel in question has seen sense, apologised, and disciplined the employee concerned. Hopefully the publicity of this case will prevent others from making such misguided decisions when presented with a MOD90... and who knows, it might make more companies offer discounts for good PR

reply to post by StellarX

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u'r assuming that all the soldiers there are criminals.. there are valid reasons to be in afganistan.. the taliban for instance.. whom i believe are helping terrorist.. and are in fact terrorists themselves..so whos really the criminal here.. and as far as iraq.. well the reasoning behind going there is wrong but thereinlies a delima.. sadam murdered hundreds of thousands. sometimes entire villages.. he, the taliban and the extremist who do these things are the real criminals... and there is no reasoning with them.. sometimes you have to stand and fight...

reply to post by ro01xc08

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that was so awsome.. i've heard it before,quite often as most of my aunts and uncles were all in the marines...

reply to post by wytworm

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well yours is definatly in question.. you really came across as childish with the i had a year longer so i know better than you.. just because this ( may) have been the case for you.. doesnt make it universal.. besides this thread was about what a hotel employee did to a customer just because he had a millitary id..

He wasn't in uniform he was in civvies. He had a broken arm in plaster which he broke whilst under fire in Afghanistan. He was here to help arrange the funeral for a friend who was killed in action. He ended up sleeping in his car.

And for the record why shouldn't military personnel walk around in uniform?

Bad form Anonymous!


[edit on 6/9/08 by Insomniac]

A strange world, when civil disobedience, which is the ultimate form of acting out your beliefs, despite the danger that may occur, is chastised as being immoral and the person so vilified for it. We, here in our great "FREE" country of america, have many doctors who refuse to perform abortions due to personal beliefs, we have people who refuse to treat or serve people for some reason or other in the news all the time. Yes, they may be misguided, but at least these people are standing up for their beliefs, so they, standing alone against the criticism of the masses, are the great pillars (and perhaps the last true) of democracy, in a world of growing fascism. Just like to point out that I spent 12 years in 2 different armed forces, and i agree with most of what stellar said....and also, as he said, spitting on a soldier is no different from spitting on any other person (while just as disrespectful and abhorrent) as most soldiers i knew couldnt really fight their way out of a cardboard box without their toys.

Is there such a thing as a "soldier card"?

I know when Oprah said something similar to this happened to her and the store simply said it was a "mistake" that everyone accepted the stores excuse and blamed Oprah for being racially sensitive. Playing the "race card".

Maybe this was actually a mistake too and the young man was being overly sensitive to being discriinated against because he is a soldier.

After all discrimination doesn't exist anymore from what I hear around these parts.

- Lee

You missed the point. It was to illustrate how childish you came across.

I too am surprised but rather that it doesn't happen more often and not due to any misunderstandings.



I agree that there is no point into not smoking when they shoot you up toxic vaccinations. As for the not being able to get to work why don't you just get a real job; i understand that it's hard to do so in the US but that's hardly a excuse to make your problems the worlds problem.



Well i doubt that 'punk' voted for you to go defend him so lets not attack straw men, Iraqi's and Afghans all in the space of five years. How are you helping to keep him 'free' by getting yourself within reach of those Iraqi's ( who may not be so forgiving) your government visited genocidal sanctions on for a decade? Isn't that far stupider than anything the 'punk' said? Isn't it doubly so because Iraqi's never attacked or threatened to attack the United States of America?



Well 'we' aren't in the middle east and the American public never wanted to be in the Middle east. The question should be why YOU are/were in the middle east despite the wishes of your fellow American citizens!

Stellar

reply to post by wytworm

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No really, you've missed it. Go back and reread.

Yes, you can as this war is clearly aggressive and against international law.

40 000 Americans managed to do just that in 1941 so don't give me this nonsense that you can't 'say no'. American citizens are far better protected than they were then and there is most certainly no threat from Iraq to allow the accusation that your not serving your country.



Then you go to jail, so what? Would you rather be shot at or blown up in by fighting a war that is not only illegal but against all forms of common sense and human decency?



This is not a question of being a CO but a question of international law which the US is a signature country of. When a nation signs these agreements they become United States law as well and any citizen who transgresses it is in fact open to prosecution in his own country or elsewhere. This does not even have to get to morality as it's a very simple question of LAW.



And we all know that the Supreme Court can override international law at will and appoint presidents that were not elected by the citizens of the United States of America.



So soldiers receive these types of orders in the United States armed forces? You need legal protections for your soldiers to prevent them from having to commit such outrages but according to you they can't refuse to go to war? Talk about a twisted view of law and justice in general...

Stellar

Wrong again. You're having a hard time reading what I type. I'll try to make it simple.

If you're a soldier, and you decide on your own that the war is illegal and tell the commanding officer that you're not going to go, you will be thrown into jail. Simple.

40,000 Americans did what in 1941? Resist the draft? Not sure what you're referring to.



You've obviously haven't been to a military prison before.




It does pertain to being a CO. We have a volunteer military; if you don't want to fight, but to serve, you need to bring that up prior to any sort of conflict. You just can't play that card whenever you decide to.



Take the "Bush stole the election" bullcrap to another thread.

Supreme Court made the rules for being classified as a CO. If someone doesn't like it, they can file a complaint, etc.



Legal protection? The protection is for the soldier in case he come up against something like that. It's called, "planning ahead".

And in 26+ years of being in the military, I've never been given an illegal order, never heard one given to another troop, and never gave one myself.

If a guy doesn't want to go to war, just don't enlist. No one is twisting his arm.

reply to post by pexx421

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but this employee did this despite hotel policy..the man was not in violation of that policy this was out and out discrimination because he was millitary

reply to post by wytworm

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first off that post wasnt directed to me it was to myrdyn. second it backfired .. u made yourself look that way