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Originally posted by wytworm
Originally posted by Myrdyn
Have to admit, I'm a little baffled by this rambling political debate. Soldiers have absolutely no say whatsoever in the political agenda of their deployment. It would be a very dangerous situation indeed if this were the case.
There is an absolute universal moral imperative that all humans are a part of whether or not they admit it or take part in it. Your first allegiance is to that morality, it is internally sourced, not externally imposed and the military is its servant, not the master.
Next?
[edit on 5-9-2008 by wytworm]
I don't really want to debate 'off topic', but I disagree entirely with what I think you're trying to say.
First of all.. How can there be an 'absolute universal moral imperative'?
Secondly.. I served as a British soldier for 22 years and was never required to perform an immoral act.. though I may have prevented many.
Finally.. My morality is absolutely no business of yours to question.
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Why was he in uniform/flashing ID? why not normal clothes, why rile the population by walking about in combats?
Originally posted by scorand
reply to post by wytworm
well yours is definatly in question.. you really came across as childish with the i had a year longer so i know better than you.. just because this ( may) have been the case for you.. doesnt make it universal.. besides this thread was about what a hotel employee did to a customer just because he had a millitary id..
Originally posted by ...and justice for some
This kinda trash really p***es me off. I just recently got out of the USMC so I'm speaking from experience when I say you'd be surprised to see just how often this kinda stuff happens.
Like not being able to buy a pack of smokes cause you pull out your military id, or not being able to get to work cause so group of jackasses are protesting out side of your base.
Do you know how horrible it feels to walk down the street in your uniform and get called a baby killer by some punk who's willing to let you die to keep them free but wouldn't give you the time of day if you needed help?
We may not be in the middle east for the right reasons but thats no excuse to treat another human being with such disrespect especially if he's a service man.
Originally posted by jerico65
Wrong. The "refusing an illegal order" is for things like shooting kids, your own troops, etc. You can't say, "I don't want to fight this war because it's illegal."
And refusing the deployment order is called, "Missed movement". You go to jail.
And before you bring up Conscientious Objector status, there are alot of things that you have to do prior. You can be in the military as a CO, but you have to have that applied to you PRIOR to deploying. You just can't file for it the afternoon you get an order to deploy.
"Beliefs which qualify a registrant for conscientious objector status may be religious in nature, but don't have to be. Beliefs may be moral or ethical; however, a man's reasons for not wanting to participate in a war must not be based on politics, expediency, or self-interest. In general, the man's lifestyle prior to making his claim must reflect his current claims."
www.sss.gov...
And in 1971, the Supreme Court said you can't apply for CO status simply because you were against a specific war.
It's not needed for advice, but CYA. That way, the soldier can't be punished for failure to follow the order.
Originally posted by StellarX
Yes, you can as this war is clearly aggressive and against international law.
40 000 Americans managed to do just that in 1941 so don't give me this nonsense that you can't 'say no'. American citizens are far better protected than they were then and there is most certainly no threat from Iraq to allow the accusation that your not serving your country.
Originally posted by StellarX
Then you go to jail, so what? Would you rather be shot at or blown up in by fighting a war that is not only illegal but against all forms of common sense and human decency?
Originally posted by StellarX
This is not a question of being a CO but a question of international law which the US is a signature country of. When a nation signs these agreements they become United States law as well and any citizen who transgresses it is in fact open to prosecution in his own country or elsewhere. This does not even have to get to morality as it's a very simple question of LAW.
Originally posted by StellarX
And we all know that the Supreme Court can override international law at will and appoint presidents that were not elected by the citizens of the United States of America.
Originally posted by StellarX
So soldiers receive these types of orders in the United States armed forces? You need legal protections for your soldiers to prevent them from having to commit such outrages but according to you they can't refuse to go to war? Talk about a twisted view of law and justice in general...