The Evidence For Jesus' Existence Is Nothing But Hearsay

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[edit on 4-9-2008 by urza2k4]

reply to post by AlexG141989
I hope we all realise we are talking about something happening 2000 years ago, we cant get truth out of our leaders today about whats going on with many things, War on terror, global warming, 911 etc etc, how do any of you expect to get the truth of anything that has had 2000 years of billions of people having a different understanding of what was written. Unless you were there or can view the past, you guys are talking crap. We were never there so we can never truthfully say that is how it was. We all make our own reality.

those who dont believe will regret.

The evidence for Jesus' existence is nothing but hearsay?

I'm sorry, what year is it again? End of discussion.

what you are talking about is propaganda put out there by jews even muslims believed jesus lived but seen him as a great profit not the son of god what you fail to see is that god is nothing but hearsay believe in one believe in all, ,believe in none believe in proof,.

reply to post by 19DCW71


If you think Christianity is nothing but rainbows and unicorn farts, your knowledge of history is abominable.

I think people are just narked that all these Christians are running around saying, with incredible certainty, that Jesus was real and the son of god. You'd be pretty narked to if those who ran your communities and country were saying, with incredible certainty, that Santa Claus exists, and that they are doing his bidding.

Some people just don't put up with baseless assertions presented as truth. And they shouldn't. Why should we waste our brains? If you can't figure out it's a good idea to be nice to people without first reading it in a book, then there's something wrong with you. Good people don't need books to tell them how to be good. Only bad people do, and even then they're not actually good, but only paying lip-service to being good.

Leave the Jesus alone.

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.

reply to post by AlexG141989


Hey there. I've already had this debate on ATS and elsewhere many, many times. All I can say is that much of that author's points are incorrect, debunked, or have answers. They're on ATS as well as around the net. Things like the 'Chrestus' issue have already been addressed and the claim that no external references were cited is also incorrect. Several times the Roman records were cited. It will be up to you to do the research and find the truth. Sorry to be so brief but there are two reasons why it's not worth getting long-winded:

1). It's a spiritual blindness, therefore nothing I can do to help anyone see who doesn't want to see.

2). Those who claim Jesus never existed simply aren't worth debating in my humble opinion because it is so obvious he did exist.

I have come to the very sad conclusion that people are not about finding truth but instead about finding whatever it is that supports our comfort zone. Those who deny Jesus' historicity do it for comfort's sake. At this point, I'm tired of haggling with the critics of Christianity because they are not asking to learn. In fact, they are not asking anything. They just want to get on their soap box and preach. And when you thoroughly debunk one of their arguments against Christianity to the point of humiliation, they're in another thread two days later using the exact same argument.

People don't want to know the truth. They want to hide from it. It's a weird phenomenon and a sad fact dealing with people.

Physical evidence is proven through spiritual awareness.

What about all the near death experiences? Should every single one be discounted? But even with those aside - what about his followers that willingly laid down their lives for what he stood for?

I think the conspiracy is to keep as many people as they can in the dark, because when a person has the Holy Spirit - it's the medium between you and him and and there is no control or money to be made there. The more people that come to the truth - is bad for them because it will usher in the last days.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


No, evidence is evidence. "Spiritual awareness" is an illusion.



And yes, NDEs without evidence (such as the sufferer being able to accurately describe events outside of their current environment), should be discounted.

Feelings being hurt is not enough to ignore the scientific method.

And the rest of that nonsense about the holy spirit is exactly what I mean - you have no evidence at all. The symptoms of spiritual belief can be created in the lab through the use of special aparatus. It's pure gullibility, 100%.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
Physical evidence is proven through spiritual awareness.

What about all the near death experiences? Should every single one be discounted?

Near death experiences = release of '___' from the pineal gland...

There's a thread around here somewhere about this, but I'm too lazy to look it up right now

reply to post by AshleyD


I want to know the truth - and the only way one can know the truth is to know through evidence. Feeling all goose-bumpy in church or when you think of jesus isn't evidence - it's personal experience, which is as flawed as "evidence" can get.

Christians don't want to know the truth, because if the truth involves them being wrong, they don't want anything to do with it. They won't even consider that as a possibility. Because they can't - there is no evidence to suggest they are right. Rational people do want to know the truth, as nothing they hold dearly is immune to being rationalised away. THAT is knowledge. Thinking some bronze-age farmers had everything pegged is the exact opposite - it's embracing ignorance.

But whatever gets you through the night, I suppose.

reply to post by dave420


Dave just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The Bible is full of people who were anointed and Jesus of Nazareth is the head anointer. In fact, he still anoints.

Are you saying Moses wasn't anointed? King David? How about Isaiah?

Who gave permission for their anointing?





[edit on 4-9-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]

reply to post by dave420


LOL!

You don't know me at all.

:shk:

Sorry, Dave. It's MUCH more than 'googly goo feelings.' We're talking about things that can be tested by your precious scientific method and things that pass the test of falsifiability.

Please know someone before characterize them. Cool?

Or maybe just believe whatever gets you through the night.

You truly are ignorant if you honestly believe what you just said: There is 'no evidence.' SUCH a tired old canard. It is not just 'blind faith.' I guess that is why people remain so much in the dark and why critics of Christianity constantly make fools out of themselves.... they don't even know what evidence there is and they hate what they don't even know. That's sad.

[edit on 9/4/2008 by AshleyD]

there is any historical proof oh Jesus existance,even the Vatican knows about it.Christianity like all the other religions is just a tool to control masses.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by umbracode]

reply to post by AshleyD


Then please share these testable things, as if you are right, God can be proven, and you can win some fantastic cash prizes from the numerous institutions around the world who are screaming out for this information. Considering they haven't been able to do what you claim to be able to do, logic dictates there is a very high chance you are full of it.

You are caught up in the belief process - you elevate your own beliefs to actual truths, based solely on your interpretation of their merit.

No amount of smiley faces or acronyms can make that any less irrational.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


I'm saying the bible can say anything it wants - it is not factually accurate, and just because it claims to be written by god doesn't make so, any more than me saying this post is written by god makes it so.

Your claims about the bible are as flimsy as the bible itself - that is: 'very'.

Nice try, though.

reply to post by dave420


If you want to see it, contact the member Bigwhammy. It's his project and I only helped with the research. You'll just have to believe I'm 'full of it' I guess if you don't want to contact him because Mathew 7:6 finally sunk in to my thick skull.

We've already posted it on another site. I don't see the point of posting it here as well only to debate the inevitable arguments coming from the AR's that we've already answered dozens of times on the site where it is posted.

[edit on 9/4/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by logician magician

Originally posted by Bone Collector
No where in the NT does it say Jesus was a carpenter

So then why would you even say that Jesus couldn't be a carpenter and use stone structures as an example?

I'm not a Christian but I pulled this up:

Carpenter

An artificer in stone, iron, and copper, as well as in wood (2 Sam. 5:11; 1 Chr. 14:1; Mark 6:3). The tools used by carpenters are mentioned in 1 Sam. 13:19, 20; Judg. 4:21; Isa. 10:15; 44:13. It was said of our Lord, "Is not this the carpenter's son?" (Matt. 13:55); also, "Is not this the carpenter?" (Mark 6:3). Every Jew, even the rabbis, learned some handicraft: Paul was a tentmaker. "In the cities the carpenters would be Greeks, and skilled workmen; the carpenter of a provincial village could only have held a very humble position, and secured a very moderate competence."

So your other post is invalidated twice. It took me 5 seconds to find this:

Mark 6

A Prophet Without Honor

1 Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2 When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.

"Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! 3 Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.

4 Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor." 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 And he was amazed at their lack of faith.

So what are you spreading these LIES OF SATAN!

It's clear you have an agenda. You must be an agent of evil! I ban thee!

I really do not care what he was to be honest............Bible says he was a Rabbi and never referred to him as a carpenter........his father Joseph was referred to in the Bible as a carpenter but not him, he was referred to as the son of a carpenter.......same as the fact he never heard to the word Christian it was not invented until some 40 years after his death.....and for those of you trying to convince Christians he did not exist your wasting your time. You could come up with solid factual evidence and they are going to refute no matter what you say......like was said earlier its FAITH based I just hope for their sake its painless as well when their Rapture gets here.

reply to post by dave420


Lol. Wait. You just said to Ashley you want to know the truth. We can only point you in the direction but you will have to do the work yourself. Understand Jesus came so everyone could reconcile to God on a one on one basis. There is no coming to him in groups anymore. It's personal.

Have you ever experienced adultery or know of someone that has? God goes through it on a daily basis when he is not put first in someones life.

The whole ministry of John the Baptist and Jesus shed light on the issue. John the Baptist went straight for Herod's juglar over adultery.

You want to know the truth - that is where you begin. It's up to you to figure out who John was. John only claimed to be "the voice" but Jesus said he was Elijah. There used to be amazing threads around here by Valhall that were very enlightening - but they are gone.

Know John and you'll get to know Jesus. Jesus can prove who he is to those that really dig in and want to know the truth.