Physicists Rule Out the Production of Dangerous Black Holes at the LHC

I figured you would....its the most obvious reply.


But remember the physicists thought they might ignite the atmosphere when detonating the bomb, but they considered it such a low probability that they decided to usher us into the Atomic age...

Originally posted by DisabledVet
I figured you would....its the most obvious reply.


But remember the physicists thought they might ignite the atmosphere when detonating the bomb, but they considered it such a low probability that they decided to usher us into the Atomic age...

im still not sure if the atomic age was a good thing or a bad thing yet, maybe its just a natural technological progression. but when we are told a black hole is one of the most destructive forces in the known galaxy and a nuclear explosion isnt even a pin prick within the solar system i think you still need to question the rationality of the scientists and the logic behind their theory that all will be well

The Vulcan Science Academy has determined that micro-singularities are possible, but short-lived. The Romulans are purported to utilize a micro-singularity to power their space vessels.

If something the size of a couple of atoms won't eat a spaceship, it's highly unlikely it will devour a planet.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
The Vulcan Science Academy has determined that micro-singularities are possible, but short-lived. The Romulans are purported to utilize a micro-singularity to power their space vessels.

If something the size of a couple of atoms won't eat a spaceship, it's highly unlikely it will devour a planet.

lol, who am i to argue with the eternal and infallable wisdom of the Vulcans and Romulans, all my concerns have now abated

thank you Gene Roddenberry

Those of you who are really worried about this should go here and build yourself a physics contraption. It is pretty simple and straightforward but if you fail to build a working contraption then perhaps it would be a good idea to stop theorizing about quantum processes as well.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


If you are correct, it would be exactly, almost to the day. In another thread it was said it would take as little as 50 months for a black hole to grow and destroy the world, because they are exponential, not linear in growth. Now the first actual experiment won't happen until what was it? Oct 23rd? 50 months away from Oct 23rd is december 23rd 2012, exactly the time frame during which the proposed "end of the world" is supposed to happen.

It's rather convenient... The fact is despite the scientist saying it's safe and ladida, they can't know 100% until they actually do it. While it may very well be unlikely according to their theories, how can they honestly know? theory is only that, theory. Many theories are proven to be wrong despite being very sound in appearance. So who is really to say that they won't be wrong?

However I'd like to believe that they aren't going to destroy us all since they also live on this planet. Add a dash of conspiracy theory into the mix. Some say the greys also live on this planet, either that they are indeed terrestrial or that they have permanent bases here and live in great numbers. Seems fair. It's also said that the Greys and the Illuminati work together. The illuminati, those who control the money. Now did the money come from the EU tax payers? But who is at the head of the EU? Who has control? The illuminati. So would the greys and the illuminati be suicidal enough to allow a project to go forth that would destroy them as well as everyone else on this earth? There's no hiding from a black hole, is there?

There doesn't seem to be anything positive to come from the destruction of the physical planet for ANYONE, regardless of how evil or high up they may be. They may want the people dead/under control, they may not care about environmental health, but they can't be so stupid/suicidal as to not care for their own physical existence. There is no prestige or benefit to death.

But in the end we just don't know until it actually happens. Despite people trying to halt the project it seems as though it will go forth. We will all find out in the end, wont we?

Particle colliders have existed for quite some time now. This one just happens to be on a larger scale than ever before. I do not believe we have a problem here. The masses with no knowledge of this science, freak out just because it is new to them, and they do not understand it.

Lighten up guys. Look at the bright side of a runaway black hole suddenly appearing anywhere on the French/Swiss border, some tens of meters below the surface.

1. We'll get some killer documentaries filmed from the edge of whatever gets sucked in before the black hole drops into the core of the earth.

2. Europe will be a cooling lava lake so we won't have to worry about the Russians any more. And forget the rising Euro, the dollar will be king again.

3. All the physics types out there will be able to calculate about when the lights will go off. With that detail out of the way, we can forget about planning for retirement and plan on playing until the very end...

[edit on 2-9-2008 by Tour18]

reply to post by Demandred


You are over reacting. The particle smashing that will be going on at CERN are the exact same particle smashing effects that happen every single moment of every single day in the upper atmosphere. Only this time they're occurring in controlled lab conditions and being measured and observed in detail.

Also consider that Black Holes do not operate on density, they operate on mass. The particles being smashed together are extremely tiny and have such a low mass that gravity has really no affect on them. At this scale, the electromagnetic force has far more potential than gravity does. Indeed, gravity has no discernible effect on the formation of chemical bonds. So even if the LHC could produce mini-black holes, they wouldn't be strong enough to even tear an electron away from an atom - let alone "swallow the earth".



But hey, look at the bright side - even some of the most intelligent people in the world working on this project are wrong, and you are somehow right - it's much better for us to be living in this day and age than when they were testing the atomic bomb. If they were wrong, the atmosphere may have incinerated and doomed everyone to a torturous fiery (quick) death. If the guys at the LHC are wrong, meh, you'll never even know it. The moment you enter the event horizon, time stops for you. You wouldn't feel the spagettification or increasing pressure. You'd never know anything happened at all.

The same reaction is evident outside our ionosphere. why cant they set up shop there. so they put the collision in a vacumn down here, but if its grounded to the earth it could react violently by using the current that flows to and from our planet and sun charging the blackhole up and then have it head towards the center of gravity. funny how our sun has had zero sun spots since this things been on eh.

google electric sun and plasma universe
read up on quantum mechanics and get some survival books

the tribulation will last four years pray youll go quick

The CERN LHC is a good example of the runaway complexity inherent in Civilisation. The lay-man is ever increasingly divorced from the science behind our gadget filled world.
Carl Sagan said it best when he stated " We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology "

Quantum Physics is a counter intuitive realm, we grope around essentially blind , with mathematics as our white cane.
This disconnection between Big Science and the man on the street will always have the potential to breed suspicions , many of which find there way onto ATS.
In the absences of any true understanding of the subject , i guess we`ll have to just take the word of the scientific community.

I`ll finish my two cents worth on a note of caution, with a quote from Richard Feynman , Nobel prize winner and a pioneer in Quantum Field Theory ,
"Anyone who says they understand Quantum Mechanics does not understand Quantum Mechanics ."

Hawking's analysis became the first convincing insight into a possible theory of quantum gravity. However, the existence of Hawking radiation has never been observed, nor are there currently viable experimental tests that would allow it to be observed. Hence there is still some theoretical dispute over whether Hawking radiation actually exists.

Ive been over this subject front to back. I know both String Theory and M Theory. You know why they have M theory? Because they found out string theory was wrong. If Hawking's is wrong this entire solar system is gone.

I don't think they have the right to risk everyones life, past, future and future generations. Hawking's radiation is so highly theoretical I dont neccisarily believe it. I wasnt worried about this until I read that they were counting on the matter being spewed back out.

I would think there would be evidence of gamma rays or something in the universe being emitted from blackholes. They havent seen it. Also there are small and large blackholes in the universe, wonder if another civilization made the same mistake?

[edit on 2-9-2008 by Memysabu]

To be honest with the position of power and knowledge/wealth (more than that of what I possess) which these scientists hold they stand to lose a lot more than most of the people on ATS (including myslef). So don't you think with the amount of concerns we have over the potential destruction this experiment could cause, those of the scientists running this would be far greater and that they wouldn't do anything they really think would be dangerous to us or the planet.

That being said and with the notion this won't cause any harm, it is exciting to think of what we might learn from this experiment.

I'm not saying that it will but it may even produce information that might lead to something that will help all of mankind.

With these points rounded up it seems the possiblity for something good to come of this outweighs any danger that could occur.

As I know the black holes were alredy produced by this device and nothing heppened so we have nothin to wory about even if someone doesn’t undersand the science bases of this harmles experiment.

Z-machine


[edit on 2-9-2008 by odyseusz]

What's to stop them from telling us they wont do it, but still do it without us knowing?

If they succeed, the results will be kept secret for awhile, but if they fail, there's no one around to sue them. It's a win win situation for them.

Originally posted by DisabledVet


"But how can they know this wont happen..."

Answer: Ill take 100+ physicists guess over any ATS's members guess, vision, or stoned forethought.

The fact is the LHC will provide us with plenty of data and wont cause the destruction of the universe nor Earth for that matter.

www.physorg.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

im with you on this one. I would definitely take the guess of 100+ physicists over any and/or all of the ats members guess.

with that said, it's still just a guess. there is a chance something horrible might happen. however, like the physicists im eager to find out what happens.

Can I be the first to say this?

When this puppy goes live it will fizzle like a sparkler and melt down into a 20 mile long burnt out water logged match. From a topographic point of view it will resemble a donut that's been sitting in a mud puddle for a week or a "teddy bear leg"... You know the thing that someone leaves in the toilet at work for hours after a failed attempt to flush mr. hanky?

Nothing is going to happen, no black holes and *certainly no god particle*, strangelet etc.

It is a 20 mile long ring of failure. The biggest pork barrel squander in scientific history. While every scientist is trying to get their name out there by supporting the collider or debunking doomsday claims, they will be so quick to detach their names from the experiment after the embarrassing failure to come. I'm certain there's nothing wrong with the DESIGN but the physical creation of this system will prove to be its fault as well as the operators & sensors.

It will not do anything useful this decade. I'm sure of that. Now can we end the debate on it? Because it's tiring, repetitive and just outright boring. There's more of a doomsday risk at your local deli than this irrelevant piece of lowest bidder built, colossal human under achievement.

No way in this decade will this machine run for 100 hours at the level necessary needed to produce the kinds of things these guys got their grant money for.

reply to post by Memysabu


Maybe the Drake Equation needs to be revised. This could be the technology where most/all civilizations stumble and destroy themselves, which is why there's no one "out there".

Originally posted by DisabledVet

Originally posted by Demandred
just some things i wanted to point out about the article.



[edit on 1-9-2008 by Demandred]

You know your right. We should just close up shop and not try anything.

"Hey Zorg....you no wanna make a fire with those sticks...could cause the whole world to burn up...we ok eating raw fish...safer that way"

You, my friend, struck the nail on the head! I was actually tempted to post nearly the same EXACT thing on another doom and gloom LHC threat today.

Originally posted by Demandred
lol

an Abomb is a toy compared to a black hole, funnily enuff i was expecting that reply

However we only know an Abomb is a toy compared to a Black Hole because we went through with the Manhatten Project yet still know relatively little about Black Holes. We're in exactly the same "what if" position as we were when the Manhatten Project was going on except back then it was Top Secret and we didn't have the world wide web to get news & information out so easily.

It's fruitless debating all this anyway because it IS being switched on, I for one welcome this advance in scientific discovery and hope it will lead on to a many great things in our quest for knowledge. Just wait until they build the Very Large Hadron Collider after this one has done it's service then all the "what if" misinformed rumour merchants will return again sparking up more fears about things they know absolutely nothing about