False/half awakenings (spiritually speaking), getting through it.

Not my experience.

Energetic techniques have worked just fine at times, now they don't seem to have the same oomph, and my energy is probably in a 'better' place to manifest now that it ever was.

I do believe something is changing. Maybe we are out of class 101 and into 202 where there are different rules for the more experienced travellers, and being a rookie I'm still on the catch-up

[edit on 1/9/08 by RogerT]

The illusion of light can actually be the confusion in the darkness. To truly be awakened you must keep your feet firmly on the ground (within the shared reality) and your head into the clouds. What good is it to lie to yourself thinking you're awake when your confusion is seen clearly as confusion by everyone around you? You're under the illusion of enlightenment and that is the confusion of darkness. That's living in the darkness under the illusion of being in the light and such in real life is delusionary behavior.

To truly be in the light you must be able to see around you clearly and everyone should be able to see you as if you were standing in a light.

Originally posted by RogerT
Enlightenment is a con - IMO.

And it's an elitist con at that.

What do ya do when you get enlightened? Ya do the bloody same thing ya did before ya got it.

Lol. A con? Well, I can see how you would feel that way. Most of the "enlightened" that promise to show you the way for $19.95, are indeed con people. Or even the "free" enlightening advice here on the boards to the degree that it puts the giver in a position of spiritual superiority over the questioner is a con. The currency traded here is importance, not cash, food for the ego, not the body.

However "enlightenment" itself is not a con. Nor elitist in any way. In fact, it is the pole opposite. It is humbling.

If you have had the "light" go on, the first thing you see is that there is no one else in the room. No one to be better than. The second thing you see, is that "you" arent there either.

reply to post by Incarnated


Wow, that was mega confusing. Sounds like you would do well to take your head out of those low lying clouds and put your feet up

[edit on 1/9/08 by RogerT]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Still haven't worked out if you're buddhist leaning or taoist, or one of the other 'eastern' 'ists'. Maybe you just take the bits you like from the books - best way really.

Yes, I've seen the lights and disappeared, and I've hung out with one or two 'enlightened' individuals. They were still elitist arseholes, as am I.

Have to say though, that when I met the 'light', I wasn't really up for looking around the room as I was too busy experiencing total being annihilation. Maybe you got a more gradual or slightly dimmer version

Claridad is real smooth - it'll getcha if you don't watch out.

Enlightenment is a trap, my 2c.



[edit on 1/9/08 by RogerT]

reply to post by RogerT


Maybe the reason the energetic techniques "worked" was that you were actually doing another thing that you were not even aware of.

That seems to me to be the problem with the LoA as it was stated. If you listen to what they TELL you to do, you hear one thing, if you watch closely what they are really doing, they are doing that, but something else as well.

Perhaps the new "class" is to figure out the "something else," which was the real Secret all along.

In science, these other "somethings" are called hidden variables. And if you are in a better energetic space than ever before, and IF the LoA was indeed a Law, it should work better. Unless, there was a hidden variable that was the real "causal" agent all along. In which case, the energetic space you are in, and the practice of the LoA technique will get you nowhere until you understand the real causal agent.

Originally posted by RogerT
No I don't think that's it Sonya. It's not as easy as it used to be, something has definitely changed. It's like the techniques are not really working any more. Anyway, mostly they were just more fodder for the ego.

Nahhh...heard about the movie but I read a book on that when I was 16. Worked well too! But back then I was far more optimistic about life. Now I am just tired, life has worn me down plus I think hormones play a large part. But sheesh...I feel almost chipper compared to what you have said. : )

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
As Sonya said, it is Ego that has gotten hold of the toy of "enlightenment." Nothing more.

The "Self," that which has been awakened, does not need to know. It is intelligence without a plan, intelligence that can make do, and better than make do, that can make perfection out of "what is" completely in the moment.

Very well said. I started to type out an explanation earlier but then decided not too. Not to sound arrogant, but some things have to be seen to be understood, and when I start to type stuff out on this topic I end up just hitting the delete button most of the time. Wasted words. : )

OK, if these are immutable laws which remain constant, I'll go with what you're saying - makes a lot of sense. However, my feelings are that the only constant is change, and all laws are only temporary, especially those that operate in and around 3D.

I don't have any real proof or much evidence, it's more a feeling that things are changing. Sonya's post brought the feeling a little more solidity, so I'm gonna go with that for now.

things are changing, we have been given some opportunities to play with some magic, but now we need to learn the next level of currency, and my suspicion is that it is something to do with warmth (and embracing the dark - just thought I'd throw that one in there for luck)

off to bed now 3am. ciao for now

Originally posted by RogerT
things are changing, we have been given some opportunities to play with some magic, but now we need to learn the next level of currency, and my suspicion is that it is something to do with warmth (and embracing the dark - just thought I'd throw that one in there for luck)

Hmmm. What you just said made me think of something, reminds me of the porn thread. How what was once exciting becomes dull, and doesn't offer the "kick" anymore.

Maybe embracing the dark gives the emotional juice to make things "pop" so to speak. LOL. Only partly kidding here. I have seen dark/light as from the same source for a very long time, but what you just said adds a new insight on the manifestation thought.

reply to post by RogerT


I am not an "ist" at all, really.

I wasnt seeking enlightenment. I wanted to be a corporate raider, and sell my soul for the materialistic dream. And, I was at the top of my class and well on my way to getting there.

I think what happens when someone becomes enlightened and becomes an Arse, as you poetically phrase it, lol, is that the light goes on, but perhaps the whole ride isnt over. It was a sudden event for me, and unsolicited, but it was followed by years of sorting. If you have had the same sort of thing, you know it is an experience, "beyond the mind" or in other words, the mind cannot really grasp or make sense in a "knowing" way what you experienced. So, for me, there were years of reading other peoples experiences of enlightenment, and just "listening," so I could see how they were able to "make sense" of it with the inadequate mind.

I honestly do not see how one could have the light go on, and not be humbled. Only the ego can feel "better than." Only the ego sees others. Sure, even after the light goes on, the ego remains, and you do have to deal with it, but if you got a really good look around the room, you know you are not that. I still see "others" but I know they are not different or really separate from who I am when I am not "me."

Enlightenment does only mean that the "light came on." I guess it depends on whether or not it was on long enough (or reflection after the fact further illuminates) to make it clear that the Ego, the idea of a separate identity is only a shadow. It isnt "destroyed" violently, but if the light fills the entire "room" no shadows are. Then, even when the light dims again, you are left with the shadow, but you know that it is only a shadow. You never again mistake it for more than a short while for "you."

What you seem to be describing are Egos that have grabbed the enlightenment experience and said "It was for ME, I am SPECIAL." Which means the dispelling of the shadow was incomplete, and the shift of identification from Shadow to Self never actually occurred.

That seems to me to be the problem with the LoA as it was stated. If you listen to what they TELL you to do, you hear one thing, if you watch closely what they are really doing, they are doing that, but something else as well.

If you're referring to the guys and gals that write the books, more likely is they just got lucky and have absolutely no idea how they manifested the reality that they find so wonderful - or they are mostly lying.

OK, one or two of these guru writers are harmless and pleasant enough, but a lot of them, especially the best sellers, are not what they claim to be by any stretch.

I have seen dark/light as from the same source for a very long time, but what you just said adds a new insight on the manifestation thought.

Well the dark is a great manifester. Careful though.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Very well said. I started to type out an explanation earlier but then decided not too. Not to sound arrogant, but some things have to be seen to be understood, and when I start to type stuff out on this topic I end up just hitting the delete button most of the time. Wasted words. : )

I agree it really must be seen. But I always write it out for myself, first, and one can never tell what will be the final piece in someone else's puzzle. There have been ideas that I have been turning and turning and someone will say the simplest thing and the last piece of the puzzle will click into place for me. Every conversation or argument, (in the philosophical sense) helps me understand whatever it is I am contemplating more clearly, the very act of phrasing and typing it makes it more clear, OR conversely shows me areas where my clarity is lacking.

reply to post by RogerT


I completely agree that they are not what they are selling themselves to be.

And I go with the slightly more innocent take, I think they really dont know what they are doing when they do it. I dont think it is a deliberate lie of omission, keeping the real secret to themselves. I think what IS a deliberate lie is when they say "It works every single time." I think they are well aware of the fact that they are not able to have 100% accuracy, and I think that they know they are missing a piece of the puzzle and selling it as a complete puzzle anyway.

Some, perhaps, are doing so with a real hope it will work for you anyway. And others are just making a living selling dreams.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


OK, this will take more than a few glib comments, and it really is way past bedtime, so just a quickie to get started:

Having an experience of ego death is one thing. The pursuit of enlightenment, the 8 fold path, the Rig Veda, the chanting meditations etc etc, are an elitist trap designed to keep you looking up rather than sideways.

One of the most bizarre things to me was the in-fighting amongst the south american shamans. Bickering like spoilt children, jealousies and firing etheric darts at each other around the globe. These are guys and gals that 'see the light' almost nightly.

I applaud your searching and sorting. Your warmth and empathy. Something in there is a bit 'light worker' though. Maybe you just remind me of my business partner (successful tarot reader and spiritual coach). Maybe it's simply your liberal use of terms like 'self', 'know yourself', 'just be' and stuff like that - too much of a reminder of my walk of shame.

xx

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I honestly do not see how one could have the light go on, and not be humbled. Only the ego can feel "better than." Only the ego sees others.

I really doubt if many people spend their days in that state of conscious enlightement. Not to say some don't, but it is surely not the norm.

I realize it is all one, I realize there are no victims, it all comes from the mind of god, and as such I can't judge. But see I am here, because something wants me to be in the mix, so I do participate even though I know it is a dream. If you have ever read some of my rants on other threads you would realize I participate fully and can be quite judgemental in some regards. : )

I know your comments were not directed at me.

Originally posted by RogerT
Well the dark is a great manifester. Careful though.

LOL…yeah I don’t plan to ask Beezlebub to do my bidding. I know my place. On the otherhand I have been depressed for quite some time and I may have collected a small fan club of dark little beings from the netherworld, like attracts like, maybe I could put them to good use (maybe they could clean the house?)


[edit on 1-9-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by RogerT

Something in there is a bit 'light worker' though. Maybe you just remind me of my business partner (successful tarot reader and spiritual coach). Maybe it's simply your liberal use of terms like 'self', 'know yourself', 'just be' and stuff like that - too much of a reminder of my walk of shame.

xx

I can assure you that there is no one further from being a "lightworker" than I. Lol. I am not a part of any movement, any group, nor do I frequent New Age stores unless my Pagan friend makes me go with her.

I use the terms you mention because words are a means of conveying an idea I have, which is invisible to you, to you. I need to find words that I am fairly sure mean the same thing to us both, (or anyone with whom I am speaking) and that necessarily means that those words will have a cultural usage. (Other people will have uses them liberally) I actually change my terminology quite frequently to accommodate the education and religious affiliation of the person I am conversing with. If you seemed very Christian, I would say God, and quote Jesus to make my ideas clear.

Know Thyself, in my Avatar, is from the Temple of Apollo at Delphi. Plato and Socrates are my favorite philosophers. It also, in my opinion, is the most succinct way to phrase the entire path to enlightenment. If you know who and what you really are, (and I do not mean a journey though the memories of your mind) there is nothing left to do.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I can assure you that there is no one further from being a "lightworker" than I. Lol.

Yeah I think I can vouch for you there. I first saw your nick on the Smiley Faced Serial Killer thread, right? I was new to ATS and that was the first thread I participated in.

Light workers generally do not get off on discussing serial killers in such depth. Discussing serial killers is like eating red meat or drinking alcohol, not typical light worker stuff.

Originally posted by Sonya610
I really doubt if many people spend their days in that state of conscious enlightement. Not to say some don't, but it is surely not the norm.

For me, it is a game of percentages. I certainly do not walk around every minute of every day fully conscious, and I would be lying if I said I was. I increase the percentage every chance I can. There are times when I am 10% conscious, and 90% unconscious for a day. Others, perhaps my best days, are 60/40. I dont beat myself up when I am unconscious, I just notice it when I can. That noticing alone brings the percentage up.

I dont think anyone, ever, has been 100% conscious. I know that will get me in some trouble with the Buddhists, and Christians, etc., but when I look at everything they are reported to have said and did, I see gaps. I see "them" or their ego in the mix. So as not to piss off the vocal Christians, I will pick on Buddha. For instance, Buddha had to be convinced by a cousin to let women be monks. That violates the principle of Oneness, to think that they should not, and so it shows incompleteness.

If this were a video game of Consciousness played by God, as an illustration, we always get killed before we beat the final boss. I would assume that if anyone ever "realized" (made real) completely, the entire multiplicity would collapse back into that undivided and undifferentiated infinite potentiality, the "One" or Singularity and the game would be over.

Of course that is just speculation. But if the concept of "Oneness" or non-duality is taken as far as it can go, there is no "other." All apparent "others" are facets of the same 'thing" that is non-dual or completely beyond either the concept of One or Many. So any "one" aspect would be able to "change" the whole.

Of course if one takes the concept even further, there is no "time" in which this collapse could happen, as all things in all times would be happening NOW, and the collapse would be rather pointless in a sense, it would be the infinite spiral or cycle so many of the traditions allude to. Everything would be still and unchanging, all possibilities, all change, contained in the "one" thing unchanging and eternal.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Light workers generally do not get off on discussing serial killers in such depth. Discussing serial killers is like eating red meat or drinking alcohol, not typical light worker stuff.

Lol. Yeah. I will analyze ANYTHING. Prior to my little enlightening experience, I was a die hard nerd. Science, economics, socio-biology, you name it, if it could be analyzed and it related in any way to human or animal behavior, I was all over it.

Nothing has changed, except that now I dont get to be a corporate raider. That damn "oneness" thing screwed that all up.