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McCain cheated at Q&A Forum
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reply to post by nyk537
That's funny, I have a video stating otherwise with Warren in it.
Video
So, you say what again, he couldn't of heard anything?
[edit on 19-8-2008 by jhill76]
Rick Warren himself denies these allegations.
Warren insists McCain didn't cheat...
That's funny, I have a video stating otherwise with Warren in it.
Video
So, you say what again, he couldn't of heard anything?
[edit on 19-8-2008 by jhill76]
Originally posted by maybereal11
He was promoted to Captain Aug 1st 1979, resigned from the Navy in 81, ran for congress in 82.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
You forgot to mention that he graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1958. F.Y.I. if you graduate from a military academy you enter active duty service right after graduation. So subtract 1958 from 1981 and you get 23 years. You see he was in the Navy long before his combat years. That only makes sense. We wouldn't send an inexperienced pilot into war.
As far as his limited combat hours, and only flying in 23 combat missions don't you think that had something to do with the fact that he was shot down and had both his arms and legs broken. He didn't fly in any more combat missions after that because he was A. a P.O.W and B. not physcially able to fly combat missions because of his injuries in a combat missions.
I suppose you would laugh at a WWII veteran who was shot on D-Day a failure because he was "only in 1 combat mission". Your logic is shameful and far removed from reality. If he was just a spoiled admiral's son he would have backed out of combat after he was involved in the USS Forrestal fire. He was in an airplane on the flight deck when the accident happened. Not just watching from afar.
So yes! McCain has 23 years of dedicated military service and 26 years of experience as a politician. Obama, the rookie first-term Senator, is so green he wasn't even around to vote on the Iraq invasion. Those are the facts.
O, Chuck Yeager was shot down after his 8th combat mission. He must have been a total failure if John McCain is a failure after making it to 23 missions.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
Originally posted by nyk537
I even posted the links for this on the previous page that have quotes from Warren himself saying that there was no way McCain heard anything!
Warren couldn't possibly know whether or not McCain heard anything as he was on stage with Obama while McCain was in his car. So, no matter what Warren said (unless he can be 2 places at once), he couldn't know what McCain did or didn't hear.
I don't trust him not to lie anyway as he said McCain was in a Cone of Silence and he knew very well that he wasn't.
I don't know whether McCain cheated or not.
There is more evidence that 911 is an inside job than McCain cheating.
How about those that believe that he did cheat, how about we post several long youtube videos proving it with scary music...and call yourselves like " We Are Aganist Cheaters"..protest alot...bullhorn McCain and the Republican Convention and whatnot...
Or you could realize your golden boy didn't perform the way you had hoped and are trying to find and grasp at straws. Had Obama done well at this forum, this cheating thing wouldn't be a story at all. Plus considering how you claim McCain is so old he came up with those cheat answers pretty fast huh?...
Those who believe its a cheat...are delusional and brainwashed by this whole show that is the election.
How about those that believe that he did cheat, how about we post several long youtube videos proving it with scary music...and call yourselves like " We Are Aganist Cheaters"..protest alot...bullhorn McCain and the Republican Convention and whatnot...
Or you could realize your golden boy didn't perform the way you had hoped and are trying to find and grasp at straws. Had Obama done well at this forum, this cheating thing wouldn't be a story at all. Plus considering how you claim McCain is so old he came up with those cheat answers pretty fast huh?...
Those who believe its a cheat...are delusional and brainwashed by this whole show that is the election.
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
You couldn't possibly know if he did hear, yet the Obama media and his followers here keep declaring it as fact.
So, no matter what you or Wiggins says, you couldn't know if McCain heard anything.
Warren couldn't possibly know whether or not McCain heard anything as he was on stage with Obama while McCain was in his car. So, no matter what Warren said (unless he can be 2 places at once), he couldn't know what McCain did or didn't hear.
You couldn't possibly know if he did hear, yet the Obama media and his followers here keep declaring it as fact.
So, no matter what you or Wiggins says, you couldn't know if McCain heard anything.
Originally posted by Dronetek
You couldn't possibly know if he did hear, yet the Obama media and his followers here keep declaring it as fact.
So, no matter what you or Wiggins says, you couldn't know if McCain heard anything.
1.) I'm flattered that you would bring up my name, since i havent contributed anything to this thread since page 3 Good to know that someone is thinkin about me
2.) We are speculating. You know. Making theories. In the end, i really don't care. If McCain cheated, its because he's scared and doesnt think he can win without doing so.
I found his uncharacteristically smooth approach and rapid-succession answers to be rather fishy....so my take is that he knew some things well in advance.
Either way - i don't care.
I'd venture a guess that 95% of the people who watched that, and 99% of the people who attended, already knew who they were going to choose between the two anyways.
The debate doesnt matter.
Its just a dog and pony show so we can go post on forums and complain about it
Cheating? I'll bet he did.
Did Obama? Maybe. But i believe thats another thread.
Originally posted by dbates
Originally posted by maybereal11
He was promoted to Captain Aug 1st 1979, resigned from the Navy in 81, ran for congress in 82.
You forgot to mention that he graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1958. F.Y.I. if you graduate from a military academy you enter active duty service right after graduation. So subtract 1958 from 1981 and you get 23 years. You see he was in the Navy long before his combat years. That only makes sense. We wouldn't send an inexperienced pilot into war.
As far as his limited combat hours, and only flying in 23 combat missions don't you think that had something to do with the fact that he was shot down and had both his arms and legs broken. He didn't fly in any more combat missions after that because he was A. a P.O.W and B. not physcially able to fly combat missions because of his injuries in a combat missions.
I suppose you would laugh at a WWII veteran who was shot on D-Day a failure because he was "only in 1 combat mission". Your logic is shameful and far removed from reality. If he was just a spoiled admiral's son he would have backed out of combat after he was involved in the USS Forrestal fire. He was in an airplane on the flight deck when the accident happened. Not just watching from afar.
So yes! McCain has 23 years of dedicated military service and 26 years of experience as a politician. Obama, the rookie first-term Senator, is so green he wasn't even around to vote on the Iraq invasion. Those are the facts.
O, Chuck Yeager was shot down after his 8th combat mission. He must have been a total failure if John McCain is a failure after making it to 23 missions.
No I wouldn't "laugh" at any veteran and am offended that you would suggest the same with no indication I would.
I am concerned with the facts. You said he had 23 years of military service and I qoute...MUCH OF IT IN COMMAND.
Whereas I read ....He was promoted to Captain Aug 1st 1979, resigned from the Navy in 81.
The math doesn't add up. 2 years as Captain in a 23 year military career does not equate to "much of it in command".
How is that Logic shameful or distorting?
Shameful or distorting is stating that he had a 23 year military career and "much of it in command".
BTW The site I directed you to is an organization of Vietnam Veterans. The parts of your response where you attack me for their synopsis of McCain's military record...well maybe you should direct your ire toward those Vietnam Veterans rather than put words in my mouth for convenience.
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
I'll dig up the audio if I can, but Warren was on with Hannity yesterday afternoon and said several times that he knows McCain could not have heard anything and had church employees and secret service members with him the ENTIRE time.
This speculation that McCain cheated is being passed along as fact and it's becoming fairly ridiculous.
I’d also add that I think people are taking this “cone of silence” remark way too seriously. It was a “somewhat” witty reference to the old Get Smart television show and not a literal reference. People are throwing this around like the church actually had some sort of sound proof cone in the basement or something.
[edit on 19-8-2008 by nyk537]
I'll dig up the audio if I can, but Warren was on with Hannity yesterday afternoon and said several times that he knows McCain could not have heard anything and had church employees and secret service members with him the ENTIRE time.
This speculation that McCain cheated is being passed along as fact and it's becoming fairly ridiculous.
I’d also add that I think people are taking this “cone of silence” remark way too seriously. It was a “somewhat” witty reference to the old Get Smart television show and not a literal reference. People are throwing this around like the church actually had some sort of sound proof cone in the basement or something.
[edit on 19-8-2008 by nyk537]
Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by maybereal11
You keep stating "he cheated" as if you have any shred of evidence and not just your wishful thinking to back it up. Let me tell you, it doesn't make you or Obama's followers look good.
Unless of course you have some kind of evidence that nobody else does. The guy who hosted the interview says he actually gave Obama a slight edge.
Oh, but we all know you'll dismiss that in favor of the fantasy you and like minded people have constructed in your minds.
[edit on 19-8-2008 by Dronetek]
I will say this again Dronetek because I don't think you get it....I have not claimed to have evidence that he listened to the full slate of questions and got coached by his staff, though I believe it is probable...We don't KNOW, we suspect.
BUT READ MY WORDS concerning what I consider to be dihonest and cheating. Yes whether he listened and got coached is specualtion, but I can't imagine that Senator McCain imposed his own cone of silence where ever he was.
(notice I offer him the respect of not basterdizing his name)
From my other post you responded to...This is what I mean by CHEATING.
By CHEATED I mean that he agreed to sit in the "Cone of Silence" as to not be advantaged by hearing the entire slate of questions and benefit from coaching with regards to Obama's answers. HE AGREED to do this and OBAMA AGREED to go first based on JOHN MCCAIN'S WORD.
Someone knew ahead of time:
Just wanted to bring this into the discussion, I acknowledge that this is not any kind of proof of anything but it makes one wonder. Why weren't more news outlets reporting this before the forum? What is the source for the advance information and how was it conveyed? I actually saw this newscast live, didn't seem like much at the time but it might be of interest in this discussion.
Just wanted to bring this into the discussion, I acknowledge that this is not any kind of proof of anything but it makes one wonder. Why weren't more news outlets reporting this before the forum? What is the source for the advance information and how was it conveyed? I actually saw this newscast live, didn't seem like much at the time but it might be of interest in this discussion.
reply to post by maybereal11
You don't need to be a Captain( a very high rank in the navy) to be a commander. In 1976, he was appointed commander of the Navy's largest air squadron, based at Cecil Field in Jacksonville, Fla.(source) He wasn't promoted to Captain until August 1, 1979.
So your rebuttal is that he only flew in 23 combat missions and he was only a commander of the largest air squadron in the Navy, which received the Meritorious Unit Commendation and set safety records while he was in charge.
[edit on 19-8-2008 by dbates]
You don't need to be a Captain( a very high rank in the navy) to be a commander. In 1976, he was appointed commander of the Navy's largest air squadron, based at Cecil Field in Jacksonville, Fla.(source) He wasn't promoted to Captain until August 1, 1979.
So your rebuttal is that he only flew in 23 combat missions and he was only a commander of the largest air squadron in the Navy, which received the Meritorious Unit Commendation and set safety records while he was in charge.
[edit on 19-8-2008 by dbates]
Originally posted by dbates
reply to post by maybereal11
You don't need to be a Captain( a very high rank in the navy) to be a commander. In 1976, he was appointed commander of the Navy's largest air squadron, based at Cecil Field in Jacksonville, Fla.(source) He wasn't promoted to Captain until August 1, 1979.
[edit on 19-8-2008 by dbates]
What does this have to do with "McCain cheated at Q&A Forum" ?
His military record has nothing to do with his credibility.
The idea that he may have cheated seems to be a pretty good one.
I guess no matter which way you spin it, someone cheated.
If Obama had went second, im sure this thread would have existed, just in opposition of Obama.
Perhaps we could agree to disagree and go back to the front page and discuss something...oh....on the issues
So your rebuttal is that he only flew in 23 combat missions and he was only a commander of the largest air squadron in the Navy, which received the Meritorious Unit Commendation and set safety records while he was in charge.
:shk:
That doesnt prove OR disprove that he may or may not have cheated in the Q&A....
[edit on 8/19/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
My point is that he wasn't cheating. He was able to answer questions easily due to his experience. That's all there was to it. The rebuttal to my answer is that he was "only in 23 combat missions" and barely a captain before he retired. I was just pointing out that McCain has years of experience as a leader even before he was in politics.
Plus the fact that he shoots from the hip has something to do with it. Those aren't "staged" answers. That's how he actually feels about the issues. Confidence (from his prior experiences) let him answer quickly.
My point is that he wasn't cheating. He was able to answer questions easily due to his experience. That's all there was to it. The rebuttal to my answer is that he was "only in 23 combat missions" and barely a captain before he retired. I was just pointing out that McCain has years of experience as a leader even before he was in politics.
Plus the fact that he shoots from the hip has something to do with it. Those aren't "staged" answers. That's how he actually feels about the issues. Confidence (from his prior experiences) let him answer quickly.
reply to post by dbates
That's the point I made. These Obama supporters perceive McCain being able to answer a question quickly and with feeling as cheating. This is due largely to the fact that they support a candidate who stands for nothing and holds no strong set of values.
That's the point I made. These Obama supporters perceive McCain being able to answer a question quickly and with feeling as cheating. This is due largely to the fact that they support a candidate who stands for nothing and holds no strong set of values.
reply to post by dbates
Well i suppose that is one way to look at it......
minus the additional lengthy postings - you could've said it just like you just did
I still say, however.
Cheat or no cheat. It doesnt matter.
I seriously doubt this election had any impact, what so ever, on any of the swing voters.
And i have good reason to believe Obama and crew will be able to use many of mccains answers (or lack there of) against him in a big way.
Well i suppose that is one way to look at it......
minus the additional lengthy postings - you could've said it just like you just did
I still say, however.
Cheat or no cheat. It doesnt matter.
I seriously doubt this election had any impact, what so ever, on any of the swing voters.
And i have good reason to believe Obama and crew will be able to use many of mccains answers (or lack there of) against him in a big way.
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
Unfortunately whatever "big way" your referring to won't be enough to counter the negative reaction all these cheating accusations are going to have on Obama. People are sick of all the whining from Obama. He can never just be wrong or lose something, it's always because someone else did something.
Unfortunately whatever "big way" your referring to won't be enough to counter the negative reaction all these cheating accusations are going to have on Obama. People are sick of all the whining from Obama. He can never just be wrong or lose something, it's always because someone else did something.
reply to post by nyk537
Hmm, it could be that i havent been watching much TV these last few days
but
I dont see "obama" complaining at all.....
and as for the "big way"......you'll see
Time will tell, and ill be there to pick your jaw up off the floor for ya
Hmm, it could be that i havent been watching much TV these last few days
but
I dont see "obama" complaining at all.....
and as for the "big way"......you'll see
Time will tell, and ill be there to pick your jaw up off the floor for ya
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
Unfortunately for you it doesn't matter if Obama himself is complaining. All these accusations are "perceived" as such. And we all know that in politics, perception is a big part of everything.
When people hear non stop that Obama supporters are accusing McCain of cheating, it only makes them seem bitter and upset. Naturally this leads people to believe that Obama supporters know he lost a debate and are just trying to save face.
It's all perception my friend.
Unfortunately for you it doesn't matter if Obama himself is complaining. All these accusations are "perceived" as such. And we all know that in politics, perception is a big part of everything.
When people hear non stop that Obama supporters are accusing McCain of cheating, it only makes them seem bitter and upset. Naturally this leads people to believe that Obama supporters know he lost a debate and are just trying to save face.
It's all perception my friend.
reply to post by nyk537
what im getting at -
the only complaining i see or hear is from here on ATS
i dont see it in the media
unless i'm missing something...?
And yes - i agree - perception is a big part of it - unfortunatly....very few people actually grade the candidates on things that THEY say and things that THEY do themselves.
Its all too easy to listen to guys like "techguy" and "malik" and "Tran Trong Duyet"
:shk:
what im getting at -
the only complaining i see or hear is from here on ATS
i dont see it in the media
unless i'm missing something...?
And yes - i agree - perception is a big part of it - unfortunatly....very few people actually grade the candidates on things that THEY say and things that THEY do themselves.
Its all too easy to listen to guys like "techguy" and "malik" and "Tran Trong Duyet"
:shk:
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
I think you are missing something. The accusations of cheating are being perceived as whining by a lot of people. When you have every major news outlet running stories about possible cheating by McCain, it is perceived as whining from the other side. As I said, you don't actually have to be whining...to be whining.
I think you are missing something. The accusations of cheating are being perceived as whining by a lot of people. When you have every major news outlet running stories about possible cheating by McCain, it is perceived as whining from the other side. As I said, you don't actually have to be whining...to be whining.
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