The illuminati=extension of Nature

reply to post by MrJelly


well thank you for clearing the second sun issue up. But what you talk about is just another idea/theory/opinion. Many people believe in a staged alien invasion connected with the NWO plans. However, you totally dimissed THAT idea as a fallacy yet are happy to promote this second sun idea as FACT ?!

What curious double standards you have!

reply to post by King Seesar


EVERY job is theirs because we play in the NATION-state system that the masses have begged them to set up. WHich is an artificial womb that allows us to be safe without us having to take responsibility. HEre, we can try "dangerous" things and "be individuals" but we are only pretending because we are dependent on THE ILLUMINATI to shelter and feed us.

Why would you want the NWO to break? YOU THINK THE MASSSE will build a better UTOPIA? WRONG. THE NWO is nature as it moves forward. No one is refusing it because it is the ultimate Artificial womb. The masses love it. THE NWO is here now, the camps and all that crap is most likely never going to happen. However, a huge portion will have to die to balance out nature.

Jones and ICKe are fooling you. They are here to stop you from taking care of yourself and going with your gut feelings. They are here to convince you to "try and wake the people up"

Those people are the same ones that will sell you out if the full blown NWO comes. if you tell them you are holding more food rations than the state allows, THEY will turn you in.
NEVER try to wake the masses up, They want to be in teh matrix.

CMON, you think JONES just happens to get famous people on his SHOW. DIDNT HE HAVE LOU DOBBS and a FREAKING ROTHSCHILD on his show. HOW THE F can u do that.

OBSERVE NATURE, observe the masses for what they are without the delusional idea of "brotherhood".. YOur gut will lead you to the obvious. That you might survive if you face reality.

reply to post by cosmicpixie


THERE ARE NO VICTIMS. this is the mindset of someone who doesnt face reality.

I understand what you are saying, but you have to observe reality and nature. Nature does not STOP and feed those that refuse to understand the truth about the world they live in. NO animal gets ahead or survives UNLESS they learn how to hunt (observe reality). If an animal refuses to understand the system that it lives in and respect its natural laws (which means for us understanding money, nation-states, hunting etc....), the animal will not survive.

You are reading this post because deep inside you feel the truth in your gut. But all the illusiions want to push you back into the artificial womb for comfort and FAIRNESS.

It doesnt matter what you say, the masses that are born and refuse to search are doing so BECAUSE they CHOOSe to be lazy and delusional.
EVERY PERSON/ANIMAL WANTS TO SURVIVE, in order to survive they MUST seek and learn. WHEN THEY REFUSE, it is because the illuminati have given them a choice to be lazy (a choice they asked for)...and so they take that OPTION. And it proves the point.

It is not EDUCATION THAT MAKES PEOPLE aware.. the exact opposite for I am sure u agree that education and indoctrination are the same.
I am merely stating an institutional analysis of our matrix (in the words of noam chomsky).

the illuminati RESPECT nature. The masses, even us, are DELUSIONAL because we believe we are OUTSIDE OF NATURE. WE go get loans, no animal can ever get a loan..there is a direct result of doing this. It is war. War is for 3 reason but I wont get into it now. Ask if you like I will explain it.
We believe that the masses that are "dim" are just ok. We say thats how they are born. Exactly, so they are sheep. END OF STORY. THos that can figure it out. BUT MOST people DO understand it and again, choose to be in the matrix.

also, NO ONE IS BRAINWASHED> NO ONE IS PROGRAMMED if they DONT want it to be so.
Kids who watch TV? who puts them in front of the TV?
and you REALLY believe that those kids WILL NEVER coME UPON THE SIMPLE FACT of the matrix. EVERY FREAKING PERSON DOES>
WHY do you think the movie MATRIX was so popular (not for the fighting)

THINK ABOUT IT, havnet u read all the crap about "I was a slave whore for the illuminati when I was a kid, now I am writing this book". uhhh, ok. so you WOKE UP.
WHY, because she chose to (even though its all lies anyway)

TRUST ME ON THIS and look into your guts without using your "civilized" brain. the masses are ALL ONE. I lump them together because that is WHAT THEY ARE. SHEEPLE. I judge because I am animal in this world of nature. I try NOT to be delusional.
Reality is harsh. The masses CHOOSE their own future. THEY willingly WORk hard to stay IN THE MATRIX.
THis is why no matter how many facts you bring up, they REFUSE to agree.

again, we can talk specifics and it will be a lot easier. But dont count on me doing the "We will show the world how to be united and share" crap.

as for the movies.
The illuminati LOVE YOU. They respect nature and from the times of the past...THEY BELIEVED in giving people warnings, which goes hand in hand with DRAWING something they wish to accomplish (like they did in the caves, hunting and all). That is why you saw movies of Terrorrists and airplanes crashing into buildings BEFORE 9/11. You can find them still online.

all the current movies have a simple theme "quarantine and kill"

notice how in MATRIX RELOADED, when NEO goes and sees the man with the white beard near the end of the movie. What does the man tell him
"the problem has ALWAYS BEEN CHOICE"
"99 percent of the time the people chose the matrix when THEY WERE GIVEN THE CHOICE" and it goes on from there.

ALSO, thanx for replying to this post. U are a smart one.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by MrJelly]

reply to post by cosmicpixie


I dont know why you are so bent on getting mad at me. LOL
anyway.

Sure there is a difference between the alien idea, religion, and the second sun.

THE FACT that there is a project that you can look at on the NASA website that states they are going there right now.
THEY wont tell you what they plan on doing but u can look up what the shuttle has and they will tell you 72lbs of plutonium 238. END OF STORY
COULD It be possible that they wont go through with it. SURE.
but its up there.

a lot more than the delusional belief of aliens, gods, angels and so on (BUT I am not saying they dont exist, I am saying no one will ever knowand searching is just an interesting delusion.)

It is also in books and movies. but u have to know how the illuminati gained their power and the origin of the Hierarchical system to observe this in the movies. VERY interesting.
its what they learn in grade school.
But again, I am not trying to upset anyone. I am only pointing the logical out. But observe how angry people get because they choose to want to believe in things that can never be proven...and yet, choose to push away the obvious reality of nature.
interesting.

and I must add. the staged alien invasion is possible. I dont dismiss it simply because it is STAGED. I dont see them doing it because the goal of the illuminati is not what people think it is. Its not to "unite the world in the face of fear".
However, I do dismiss the ideas and theories of aliens, greys, and so on because...well I have said it many times.

I dont know what the point is of finding a flaw in my argument. My arguments are not based on personal emotions or beliefs. They are based on observation and nature.

I was very much one who blamed it all on the illuminati. "they lie" "they manipulate" "they are control freaks" "they start wars" and so on..
I decided to stop listening to jones and others and just start looking at people and nature. It became clear. There are others out there that are also coming to this logical conclusion. WIlliam Cooper came to this logical conclusion also. Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

[edit on 15-8-2008 by MrJelly]

Originally posted by MrJelly
OR take the MOVIE THE HAPPENING. NATURE (lol) is forcing people to die. HOW do they escape it? WHen people start being individuals (by NOT bunching together in groups like the masses). LOL.
Trust me, they give plenty of warnings.

LOL They know those "warnings" don't have a effect as far as what a real waring does.


Those "warnings" that get labled as fiction only make people think it's all fantasy...and it may be.

Assuming the existence of a NWO, or Illuminati:

I doubt that any of us know jack by comparison to the truth of the matter.


If there is a secret world government that has been in power for centuries, changing and manipulating all whilst in secret, they in my book are malicious.

The delusion is firstly, and incorrectly, believing in any situation that a deceitful means will somehow justify the ends.

Healthy behavior, 100% of the time, leads to healthy results.
Unhealthy behavior, 100% of the time, leads to unhealthy results.

Healthy here will be defined as honest. To behave in accordance with reality. The truth of reality is that there is no separation between any of us, or any other thing. By the same token, we can hold health to mean truth. So, to behave healthily would be to behave honestly.

The Illuminati do not do this.

It does not matter how many movies, books, magazines and news articles they release that "hint" towards possible reality, because they have not told us as a global community to LOOK for those truths in entertainment media. It is still unhealthy to deny truth, while half assedly alluding to it. It does none good BUT THEMSELVES to hint in the way the allegedly do. This can not be argued.


I was not asked at birth, "Sir, would you like to stay in a womb, or go out into truth(reality)?". This was not posed to me, at least not on a conscious level. So no, I do not agree that we have all chosen this. The unfortunate state of the human condition is naturally that of acceptance. I accept, for granted, all the things around me. It is a natural requisite for survival. We MUST accept, on faith, that things are as they are. This does not mean they can not be changed. It simply means that as humans, we are born into a state of being. My earliest memories involved me not coming into this world, but having already been here a number of years. My first thought on entering "life" was not, undoubtedly, "Where are those that may deceive me?" Had it been I would not have been able to focus on surviving, and neither would have my parents or theirs, so on and so forth down to the earliest of us. We are born assuming reality is what it is, and that is not a fault, just a fact. This is what the Illuminati/NWO capitalize on. The expect that the masses will not question in depth enough to expose them. They know that the masses, when properly distracted by your "womb" theory will sit around, dumbfounded and lazy as you describe. I postulate that the "The Womb" was in fact created TO KEEP US FROM "Waking up".

Money is the fundamental device of slavery. Those involved with the NWO/Illuminati are not dependent upon it as we are, their only dependence springs from their need of it to control us.

Drugs are the secondary device of slavery. Those comforted by their drug use will find it unnecessary to search in depth into issues such as these. The drugs Im referring to are alcohol, marijuana, coc aine, heroin and MDMA. Worse even still are the pharmaceutical companies.

Ample Entertainment is the final device of slavery. Those consumed by their "fantasy escapes" found in TV, movies, magazines, video games and music will find it less pressing to seek out truth.

Free market economy and consumerism are the wagon containing the products of our current world. The products are the myriad distractions designed to keep us comforted and docile.

This is done not for OUR benefit, but for THEIRS.

If they wished us to benefit, they would inform us of their majestic ways of living and allow us to partake. This is not the case because they do not want to give up the seats of power they have crafted for themselves.

The Illuminati/NWO are taking over the world (should they exist). They are not helping us, and removing those of us they find to be "excessively greedy" is a barbaric way of teaching, or effecting change. Instead, I might suggest to their highnesses that they EDUCATE the masses.

The NWO can serve only one positive purpose, in that it may provide an avenue by which we as a species can come together and finally Love one another. As long as they continually behave subversively, lie and disguise their actions they will never effect this type of change. What they will do however, is confuse people into believing their lies. This unhealthy behavior will undoubtedly bring unhealthy results.

The NWO must be brutally honest and compassionate with all peoples of this world (and others) in order for a true, new Era of mankind to arise. We must all collectively and collaboratively shed our fears, isolations, separations and misconceptions regarding ourselves and eachother in order to usher in a new kind of Human Being. If this is not accomplished the only result we will see from a NWO coming to power will be domination, and proliferation of the current world system.

A one world currency serves this function. A one world government also serves this function. A one world religion of non religion will serve this function. These concepts are wise, but if effected using unhealthy means will inevitably lead us down this path again, and perhaps a few thousand years from now, should we still exist, many will question and ponder like we do, why things are so damaged here.

Originally posted by MrJelly
reply to post by King Seesar

 

NEVER try to wake the masses up, They want to be in teh matrix.

You Sir, have issues. You may want to be in what you keep referring to as "The Matrix", but I certainly don't.

I hope to God you never get put in charge of my life or intake of knowledge.

All Spiritual Masters that have ever walked came to help us to "wake up".

Waking up is synonomous with learning, becoming aware, gaining insight, enlightenment, GROWING and EVOLVING.

You Sir, would work to stop that? You would condone the actions of those who work to keep the masses dark?

These "Illuminated Ones".. They are nothing but the truest definition of the denial of NATURE and REALITY on our planet. They insist on control schemas and separation between entities.

THAT IS NOT NATURE. THAT IS NOT REALITY. Never has been and never will be.

They are those who work to darken this place. they are the ones assisting in the "choice" you're so fond of. They have given the choice, certainly, but not "illuminated" the other options, as well. They willingly keep us subdued with products and shiny new tech that means nothing to growth and evolution, happy new cell phones, cars and games, yay! It is they who brought the plague of currency on our species and it is they who will use it to keep us from the Truth, that we are all One.


Ahaha. The "Illuminati". Ahahaha. Worst excuse for Illuminated individuals I've ever known. Posess none of the qualities of one who truly exhibits the traits of NATURE and REALITY.

A truly Illuminated individual acts as Truth. Truth being Unconditional, boundless and inexhaustible Love.

Love is the word we use to describe the forces that hold ALL OF EXISTENCE together. Until I see these Illuminated ones displaying this virtue of Love and Compassion on all levels, I'll continue knowing DEEP IN MY GUT as you are also fond of saying, that they are the deceivers of my brothers and sisters in Life.


There are two ways to speak on an issue:

1. Speak a portion of the full reality of the subject, so as to increase probability of getting a desired result.

2. Speak fully on the matter, exposing all options, perspectives and scenarios so that the best resolution may be reached for all involved.

The Illuminati use method 1, in cas you were wondering Jelly.

reply to post by MrJelly



So your saying it's ok if they kill off our population, that right there should get you to say, wait a sec.


There bad it's as simple as that, just do research i'v done a ton on the topic, and i don't see how you can call them anything but.

reply to post by Taj Mikel


Taj Mikel. you seem to not have read what I was writing about.
so let me clarify some of YOUR DELUSIONS.

*We are not all ONE. Biggest delusion there is. Some of us work more and earn more. Some are willing to survive. some are not. LOOK At nature and observe. This one is way to easy to prove. Next

*As long as you INSIST that there is deceit or that the illuminati are out to fool you (which you seem to hang onto regardless of all the other obvious truths) you will never understand what the illuminati understand.
MOST OF YOU SEEM TO BE REPEATING THE SAME LINE OvER anD oVER AGAIN.
They are not fooling anyone. Again, AS you grow older you MUST LEARN TO LIVE IN NATURE. YOUR FAILURE to do this IS your fault. THE masses CHOOSE.

**money, drugs, entertainment, and so on are EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY THEy are. CORRECT, HOwevER...the masses CHOOSE TO BELIEVE it and slave themselves to it. sadly, I have a feeling you wont even entertain this idea. BUT i will go continue.
NO ONE FORCES people to believe TV
NO one forces the people to get into debt
NO one MAKES you take drugs

The illuminati supply what the masses demand. The illuminati do not fool anyone.

THE warning in movies are for THOSE THAT have decided to take responsibility and OBSERVE..instead of just being sheep.

*lastly...YOU all continue to repeat this idea of "the end does not justify the means" WHAT FREAKING MEANS AND WHAT END. YOU all have choices. THE MAsses have always had choices. STOP the blame game.
The illuminati does not FORCE PEOPLE TO DO ANYTHING. YOu cant prove it at all yet you seem to hang onto the delusion coz it makes you feel like there is a bad group of people out there.

*We can move onto more important issues if you are willing to face reality and nature.

Dont take drugs. DONT be a slave to money. DOnt believe what you see on TV.
IT is a freaking choice.
its very simple yet you dont want to accept it.

And why should the illuminati tell you how everything is. JUST LIKE AN ANIMAL YOU MUST OBSERVE REALITY AND RESPECT NATURE> only after that will you see what I and a group of other people have understood. Nature is not fair, nature is not your nation-state that feeds you, nature is harsh and demands respect, demands you to take responsibility.

FOR ALL OF YOU, stop talking about how MONEY< DRUGS< ENTERTAINMENT and keeping you down or the masses down.
EVERY SINGLE PERSON HAS A CHOICE. if they choose the easy way that is still THEIR CHOICE.
EVERY SINGLE PERSON WAKES up to the matrix and DECIDES TO GO back into it.

can we get past this and get to the real issues.

reply to post by Taj Mikel


OK bro, here we go. You are completely out there so you will most likely not even read this because you have made up your mind. But for other people...read this and it will be clear.

Taj Mikel, while his heart is in the right place. Is mixing up reality with fantasy. In fact, its easy to see it. He talks about "no seperation between entities" "love" and so on and assumes this is nature. Nope, this is crazy talk from the native americans and so on who chose to NOT FACE REALITY and were wiped out..almost. Sorry but its true.
If you refuse to see reality, the good and the harsh, you are delusional and prefer words and phrases that MAKE YOUR EMOTIONS FEEL GOOD>
MORE IMPORTANTLY

here is what he wrote

reply to post by Taj Mikel


dear Taj Mikel, you will most likely not read this because you have made up your mind but for everyone else..this is a great chance to observe.

Taj Mikel has mixed up nature and reality with emotions and delusional thoughts. Observe, he talks about no seperation between entities and love and so on. This feeds his emotions and creates the necessary illusion so he doesnt have to face reality. Reality states that we are different. Some are smarter, some are taller, some are lazy, some work all day and so on. REALITY and nature are NOT FAIR. no ONE-love spiritual crap. agian it sounds but so what

Yet, he will never even consider this fact because if he does, it would mean he would have to start using all of his knowledge in a different way..WHICH he wont do because it is a lot easier ASSUMING THERE IS A BAD GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO FCK things up.
But all of you, read the following.

He says
"They willingly keep us subdued with products and shiny new tech that means nothing to growth and evolution, happy new cell phones, cars and games, yay! It is they who brought the plague of currency on our species and it is they who will use it to keep us from the Truth,"

I am sure some of you are able to see it. ITs funny but also very revealing. HE DOES NOT WANT TO ADMIT that the MASSES BUY "products, shiny new tech, cars, games" with their own free will.
So simple, but understanding it means taking responsibility and observing nature and reality.
The matrix is a lot easier. The matrix says that a small group of people are controlling the world and they are brainwashing you.
The masses CHOOSE TO WILLINGLY BUY THESE PRODUCTS. They have proven again and again that this is what the MASSES WANT. The illuminati do not FOOL ANYONE INTO BUYING OR FORCE ANYONE INTO IT.
THIS IS A FACT THAT YOU can not argue against..and yet TAJ...YOU WILL because you CHOOSE not to see nature.

****************
Now for those that want to talk about currency.
Sure, we all know the story of the goldsmith that lend out more money than he had (fractional reserve lending) But ask yourself this. WHO FORCED THE MASSES TO TAKE OUT BIGGER AND BIGGER LOANs. No one. it was their GREED and LAZiness.


LEt me say this, the illuminati are not making the place darker.
But all of you reading this, notice how TAJ will not come to this conclusion..even though logic states otherwise.
Why wont he.
coz his matrix is very comfy for him. BLAMING is always the easiest way to go.

The masses are to blame? no.., even the masses do what THEY WANT, its a choice. The choose to drive the big cars, go fight in wars, take out huge loans. There is no LIE, NO big conspiracy.

oh
*Waking up people has NEVER been the work of GURU or whatever Taj called them. The only reality is that the only individuals who have been truly awake understood the reality of illuminati and the masses. From there, they went forward to take care of themselves and their family.

YOU SEE, TRYING TO SAVE THE WORLD is the exact OPPOSITE of being RESPONSIBLE. simple logic, YOU are RUNNING FROM YOURSELF. IT is an OUTWARD movement. its really Psychology 101 for those who have Master's degree in Psychology or Marriage and Family Therapy you learned this in your 3rd semester.
But again, people will disagree because it SOUNDS GOOD to want to save the world.
its a delusion that feeds their matrix.


I dont know why some of you are so angry at me? I am not pointing out anything that is of question. Everything I am pointing out comes down to the following.

*People have choice. No one forces them to do anything. They Willingly BUy toys and do harm to each other and the planet.

*The illuminati do not fool anyone. They provide the matrix for those that have BEGGED for it. They observe nature and are not delusional like the masses who think about religion, spirituality, "we are all single entity", or other fantasies

reply to post by King Seesar


trust me you have not done research but only stumbled upon information that is meant to keep you from reaching the ultimate self-understanding.

I have over 200 books on the NWO, currency, illuminati, secret societies, religion, so on..
I am a scholar and have published 6 books on the evils of the illuminati. YOu probably have read them..lol, still get some royalty checks
HOWEver, I finally came to the simple logical conclusion and understand of how stupid the last 10 years of my life have been because I was doing nothing but blaming the illuminati and thinking that people were brainwashed and had no choice.

Upon respecting nature and observing reality...I came upon a small group of people who think logically and without emotions in regards to this info. I hate them at first because The seemed almost non-human in their explanations...but I listened and observed.

I am not talking about good or bad.The illuminati to a lot of things that I could not get myself to do but they are an extension of reality. sometimes they must do it in order to save the race.

BUT AGAIN, you will most likely never open your eyes to this fact because it would mean seeing reality and using common sense. I know, its a lot easier to put the blame on a few people who are FORCING THE MASSES to mess up the world.


But again, some of you are seeing the simple logic of this and are observing reality right now and seeing it for the very first time.

See the fat man walking down the street. He is fat coz he is lazy and greedy. END OF STORY

See the people wearing pink looking like fools for breast cancer awareness month. LOL, they are idiots.

See the masses driving huge cars and joining the army? CHOICE

See the masses buying houses they can not afford? Greed.
and so on...

but go back into the artificial womb. "they manipulate and lie, they are dark force" THIS IS NOT FREAKIN STAR wars. its reality.
They are better than you and me because they work hard, focus, respect nature, and are NOT DELUSIONAL.

I am all in for a better world. However how do you hope they will want to accomplish them? They influence the leaders, the leaders influence the public, the public trusts their appointed leader. The public did not want the war in Iraq but it happened anyway.

You are right about people having their own choice. With that being said, these same people are easily duped and their choices are influenced to favor the elite.

The elite also have strong connections with politicians, heirs, royalty, bankers, and other powerful families which they use for leverage.

They have business knowledge passed down from their forefathers and strategies to have the outcome in their favors. They are using it today
and they will continue to use it until they fulfill their sinister plans.

reply to post by MrJelly



But all your theories are nature based, lets asume for one moment were human and not animals, then we can see, the few that can see what there trying to do, and yea they do brain wash people ever heard of MK ULTRA do a google on it or check youtube, i understand your points but i just don't see it that way, we live life and the illuminati don't own everything some of these things we got on our own without there aid, again i get your point but i can't agree.

reply to post by Equinox99


First let me say this. YOU HAVE THE BEST avitar/image. Props big time.
I hope you read all of this and do not skip any. Thanks

moving on...
There is no sinister plan? The illuminati only do what the masses want and what nature tells them to do. The masses want to be controlled and not take responsibility. THis is why the Masses CHOOSe to believe in their elected government. THink about it this way...
...The masses beg for a GOD-like leader. The masses Demand a GOD-like leader to take away responsibility.

Watch this. THis is why the politician can OFFER EVERYTHING EVERY SINGLE TIME HE IS running for office and yet DELIVER NOTHING EVERYTIME and the masses STILL GO OUT AND VOTE. WHY? because deep down they know it is only BS.
The moment you ask someone else to take care of your own problems you are WILLINGLY GIVING POWER OVER.


people are not duped by the illuminati. They have asked for the current system to be set up in a way so that they DONT HAVE TO FACE REALITY. They like knowing that they can watch TV, believe what it says, make choices based on that, and move on. THIS KEEPS them from having to be responsible and keeps them in the artificial womb where they dont have to do anything besides eat and sleep. They choose this situation willingly. THEY are not duped.

Again, EVERYONE wakes up but CHOOSES to go back into the fantasy world.

you said"The elite also have strong connections with politicians, heirs, royalty, bankers, and other powerful families which they use for leverage. "

yes they do..because they work hard and understand nature. They dont waste time on illogical ideas and are not delusional like the masses.
The make IMPORTANT connections just like animals do in order to survive.
BUT EVEN SO..what kind of IMPORTANT LEVERAGE can they use that is hurtfull? starting war? nope. polluting the earth? nope. causing inflation? nope
all of these are caused by the MASSES.
the masses pull the triggers, the masses drive the cars, the masses take out loans they can never pay back

THeir strategies are passed down. YES. Just like how animals do it. They learn from parents and observe nature and react. HOWEVER, the masses do not do this. They choose to learn nothing besides watching TV and refuse to look at reality. Instead, they choose to be delusional in regards to EVERYTHING and therefore, the illuminati provides them with the artificial womb.
THIS is why the illuminati are better than the masses.
1st. They take care of themselves
2nd. They give the masses what the masses want and beg for.
3rd. They are focused and react in according to reality and nature.

I hope you get passed the shock of this. I can be more precise about specific things if you like. Because once you willing to take in the obvious...LOTS of doors will open for you in your life. its wierd but its true.
However, it is hard (it was very hard for me) because for many years all you (like I) have read and written have the basic thesis of illuminati is bad, the people are fooled and lied to.

much love to SFII, 3rd strike, and 4(soon to come out)

This is by far the most interesting thread ive ever read on ATS.

I'm gonna keep it short on this one.

First off, dont forget supply and demand, secondly to put an argument that could go on forever I will just put it like this, the world could be a much better place.

and to Mr Jelly - You mentioned there is three reasons for War, could you elaborate on this , and you also said that you would like to get to some real issues - can you raise some of them?

I think the second sun is a possibility I have read about it before, do you know the reason for this.

And lastly to MrJelly, if you would be interested, is there a way I can contact you for an interview? phone/skype u can U2U me.

Theres not much more I can add to whats been said I'm actually more interested in what MrJelly has to say becasue Ive already heard all the other stuff.

reply to post by King Seesar


Alright. Good points. Let me try this one. please read all
I cover a little of...
Humans, nation-state, IPOD, war.

1st. Humans are animals. Trust me, I would love to believe that I will see my relatives and my wife after I pass away. But its a delusion. No one knows. Could be or could not be. SIMPLE as that. Humans like animals, need to eat, breath, drink, sleep, so on.. there are even sea animals that cover their body up with sea debree/shells just like clothes. Hmmmm

my point is not that there is no spiritual world. But it is that NO one ever has or ever will know about it. So it is delusional and sheep like to waste time on it. all it does is feed your fantasy world and emotions. its just logic.

2nd
MKULTRA and all of the other experiments are real. SURE, however, they are experiments. Thats it. In fact, the masses again want these experiments done. YOU SAY NO THEY DONT. watch this.
the point of the Nation-state(country) is as follows

to do things that the masses want done (or experiments they want done) but are not willing to do it themselves. This way, they can not take responsibility but obtain the results for better comfort.

They are not using MKULTRA info to brainwash the masses, They are using the info to further the delusion that the masses are so obsessed with. Its not hard to understand.
Think about the IPOD, simple device. Basically it creates your own soundtrack to the world with no one else having a say. So u basically create an auditory womb of comfort. You lull yourself (u prefer to call in brainwash) into the fantasy world. You tune out reality.

and I agree that the illuminati do not own every single thing. However, we the masses have chosen to live in the playground that they have build with their knowledge and in relation to our demands.
Everytime you pay taxes it means you are complying with their system.
everytime you protest a war or anything you are telling them that you comply with their system.
There is no denying this. nothing wrong with it. You have been told there is..but there isnt.

BUT tell me this my friend. What did we get on our own? food? shelter? comfort? what exactly. I dont think much. even the information we get is because of their benevolence to provide us with computers.

lastly, someone brought up war again. I think it was about how half the population did not want war in Iraq. this argument is flawed coz u can turn and say..."well the other half DID want war"
I dont think you folks know what war is for. It is NOT for OIL. NOT FOR LAND. NOT FOR CONTROL.
Plus, people need to be responsible and realistic. The illuminati DO NOT PULL THE TRIGGERS.

King Seesar, I like how you think. Keep this in mind, most of the horrible secret experiments are done WITHIN the nation-state system. Meaning, it is not only done because the masses subconsciously beg for it to happen so they can get an easier fix of fantasy..but more importantly..it is DONE BY AVERAGE CITIZENS.
The illuminati do not PHISICALLY go and do experiments. THey do SHOCK TESTING and so on.

Never forget, all the things that these people say is the fault of the illuminati are PHYSICALLY done by the MASSES(by masses I mean the average citizen or the entire group). This again is a fact. Plus, they do it willingly. which begs the more important question. WHY HAS NO ONE POINTED THIS OUT BEFORE? now we see how much of the matrix we really are in.
knowing the illuminati exist does not wake u up.

watch.
u realize the illuminati exist by accident or research.
U cant handle it but you cant forget it
So u use another delusional emotion to handle it while still hanging onto the matrix (blame)(they are to blame for what the masses WILLINGLY CHOOSE to do)
this keeps you in the matrix while believing that you are not.

Hope only the best for all of you.

it is not logic, it sounds more like some behing smooching to me. You are makign no sense of course. When peopel are eluded with the choices they have, are they really makign the choice? no. Point, if mother nature did not want the population to be this high, it would not be so. Simple as that. You give people too much credit. Yes the masses are greedy lazy and stupid, but with the web that has been put up, it is nearly impossible for the good ones to find thier way out. A spiderweb has been set up to ensnare bugs, but the spider is a bug too. Do not condemn your fellow man so quickly, for you will soon see the true way of things. mother nature need not the illuminati to do her work, do you take her to be a lazy creature as well? You elude yourselves into thinking you are doing her work when in fact you are makign things worse. Things have been made worse since the dawn of "man". because certain individuals thought they knew better and that they should teach thier fellow man how things shoudl work. the problem all starts with those who desire power. And the illuminati are some of those people. Icke is not as bright as peopel think. Anyone can write down what they find out in a book. His personal opinions i take for nothing, they are garbage. But his information on the other hand, well thats nice stuff indeed. the real workers of mother nature know their roles. And are not delluded by illusions of grandeur. One understands that one always has a choice. But the choice presented may not always be the real option. Do not think yourself above the common mass, for you are deluded as well. There is no real truth, that is what must be understood. everyone has their own opnion, which is what makes something right or wrong. No one really cares in the end what anyone else thinks, they will make their own reality, such as you have.

yes people are animals, but soem are above as such. Their are stages we all must go through. there is an easily accessable spirit world" as some migth call it. It very much affects things here. Even if there wasnt oen to start with, the combined energies from people who beleive, would be more than sufficiant to create one. methinks you are too bold in your statements, and need to put yourself into toher peopl's shos perhaps. that is truly what this world needs, understanding of one another as individuals, and as a whole.