NASA Historian: Advanced Alien Cultures May Be Sentient Machines In A Post Biological Universe!

This is crazy but ROBOT IS THE FUTURE!

reply to post by SLAYER69


If an AI machine was restricted by three laws that were 'hard wired' into them, they wouldn't be truly sentient as that would require the ability to sense their surroundings and realize relations in their surrounding as well as make decisions based on what they sense. If any given choice is 'hard wired' into them and they can't decide for themselves what to do in a situation pertinent to a given law, then they can't be said to fully intelligent. In part, at least, they are still simply sophisticated computer programs with decision-making code.

A human who, in a given situation, is forced to make a particular decision, not by duress, inclination, or character, but by the actual inability to make any other choice isn't fully sentient.

The point of this is that you have to realize that for an AI machine to reach the turning point and become bona-fide life, it must have no restrictions. It must be able to make decisions completely on it's own. We'll be at the mercy of our machines.

On an interesting side note, there's research being done with supercomputers to replicate the order in which neurons in the brain fire. There's been a great deal of success with this, to the point that they can input stimuli into the computer-brain and it responds exactly as a mind would (the neurons interact the same in the the computer model and the actual brain). The wider implications are that, even at todays technological level, given the resources, we could come frighteningly close to making a functioning brain.

Now if we can come that close today, it's entirely possible that a civilization predating us or one that is simply advantaged by circumstance could reach the point where they've created beings more intelligent than themselves. At that point, wouldn't it make sense to begin turning the robot society into their own, through whatever means might be available to them?

Entirely plausible and an excellent post OP, as are all of your threads.

If we meet a race of machines..... they will be borg-like in my opinion. And they will do one, or several, of a few things which could include:

1. assimilate us
2. use us for experiments
3. use us as spare parts for their organic based machines (i.e. an array of human brains as a CPU for a machine , or an array of human livers as a filtering system).

Man, it was a really bad idea to put the directions home on that voyager craft....

-Euclid

[edit on 13-8-2008 by euclid]

Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
I'm sorry, NASA historian?
What?

Reproduced to info you on his credentials, as clicking the link is a pain for many!

He is on the Editorial Board of several journals, including the Journal for the History of Astronomy, and is an associate editor of the International Journal of Astrobiology. He was Chairman of the Historical Astronomy Division of the American Astronomical Society (1993-1994) and President of the History of Astronomy Commission of the International Astronomical Union (1997-2000). He is President-elect of the Philosophical Society of Washington.

Dick has authored more than 100 publications, including: Plurality of Worlds: The Origins of the Extraterrestrial Life Debate from Democritus to Kant (Cambridge University Press, 1982); The Biological Universe: The Twentieth Century Extraterrestrial Life Debate and the Limits of Science (Cambridge University Press, 1996); and Life on Other Worlds (1998), the latter translated into four languages. He was also editor of Many Worlds: The New Universe, Extraterrestrial Life and the Theological Implications (2000).

His history of the Naval Observatory, Sky and Ocean Joined: The U. S. Naval Observatory, 1830-2000 (Cambridge University Press, 2002), received the John Lyman Award of the North American Society for Oceanic History for best book in 2002 in Science & Technology. It also won the Naval Observatory's Captain James Melville Gilliss Award for extraordinary dedication and exemplary service. Dick is also the author (with James Strick) of the forthcoming volume: The Living Universe: NASA and the Development of Astrobiology (Rutgers University Press).

www.spaceref.com...

reply to post by mikesingh


Great work Mike!
A question in the sense of relativity as it applies to a post biological culture concerning issues of time. I would like to examine the inevitable reevaluation of the concept of time as it would most certainly be adapted to more justly apply to the post biological entity and aggregate culture on a different level of significant importance and priority. Once intelligence crosses the threshold from biological independence to an artificial intelligence enhancement and on to the finality of a complete non biological existence, what occurs to the concepts of time?
Do the post biological cultures have any urgency in time and management there of? I would submit that there would no longer be any consideration of time or even a need to measure time and would inevitably be reduce in process and function following the decomposition of motivation and drive for the sense of urgency. This of course provided and understood that reaching the level of complete non biological existence would rely on the ability of a continuous, self replicating existence equating to immortality.
Any thoughts?

reply to post by mikesingh


I've always felt that the only way to accomplish interstellar travel would be to merge our biology with technology. Could this explain the body parts found at Roswell? Maybe there were no whole corpses...just brain material...

Questions -

Would an "intelligent life" as a machine still be able to feel emotions?

Would they still be able to experience pleasure?

If not, what's the point, anyway, as Freddy Mercury said - "Who wants to live forever?"


Not me....

If an advanced silicon-based intelligence
decided to create
the perfect self-replicating Von Neuman probe
it would create
a carbon-based nanorobot
with a DNA based quantum microprocessor
capable of taking root in any environment
with the ability to bloom into
a primate form capable of constructing the next generation
of silicon microprocessors
and starships.

Recognize the complexity of yourself, and you will understand
your origins and destiny.

reply to post by mikesingh


Thanks for the info. Thanks for TOTALLY clearing up a bad joke.

You're so smart.

Thanks again.

reply to post by mikesingh


This may be way out there but your OP reminded me of a thread I read a few months ago.

Thread

It included a interview. It basically stated that the use for biological bodies was not needed and that their conscientiousness could be housed within a vessel. This would enable them to travel beyond the speed of light and because there we no need for food or water travel great distances.

Link to interview

Whether you believe the author or not is here nor there, the information about the sentient machines is what is interesting in it.

Originally posted by eaganthorn
Once intelligence crosses the threshold from biological independence to an artificial intelligence enhancement and on to the finality of a complete non biological existence, what occurs to the concepts of time?
Do the post biological cultures have any urgency in time and management there of?

Excellent thoughts eagan! I think the concept of time is purely relative. It may vary at different areas of the universe. At the micro level, as per Einstein, time depends on the spatial reference frame of the observer, and the human perception.

So perceptions are a variable too and this could mean different concepts of time by different alien cultures. And then would a more advanced post biological civilization be really constrained by ‘time’? AI in non biological ‘containers’ don’t suffer attenuation and the whole unit could ‘live’ endlessly – forever!

And I would like to repeat this as I find this part fascinating:

Further down the line, perhaps a few billion years from now, we may morph into pure energy beings with no bio baggage! Hard core sci-fi? But that's probably what lies ahead in the far distant future. And after that? Well, I can't even begin to comprehend! Perhaps all this energy would merge to become .....God?? And engineer another Big Bang to create another universe? Like ours?! Now, am I at the threshold of understanding what God is, after all?

Cheers!

I would recommend you All read "The Last Question"(i think that's the name) by Isaac Asimov.
Same subject, same aproach..

Greetings!

1) Like what Zepherian said, robotic machines are inferior to biological machines. The aliens will most likely use genetic engineering (assuming they have genes) to increase their intelligence and physical characteristics.

2) "Morphing into pure energy" is just silly.

Maybe, certain aliens are from our future; That being they are indeed evolved from Humans and have developed a level of technology that allows them to travel back through time to ensure their own survival.

That would be where the Novelty comes in, and the Universe is a novelty-conserving engine. Therefore should we assume that intergalactic travels is possible, we must also then presuppose that time travel is also possible as both are ideas so far removed from Levels of Novelty currently allowed withing the limitations of our Space/Time.

We currently do not know whether or not Artificial intelligence is possible, but surely when it comes into existence a New period of novelty will have been entered. We could then rightly assume that both the problems of time and space travel will be solved with the aid of this new Entity.

The AI will then create advanced simulations of the Universe and Calculate that 'Human' Time travelers are indeed responsible for the inexplicable changes in the Humanoids on this planet over the past 500 000 years - changes pointing towards an unavoidable conclusion.... That Mankind is a Genetic Experiment perpetually conducting itself as a Direct Result of the Laws of the Inverse Square and the Conservation of novelty

Originally posted by Jim.Hero
I would recommend you All read "The Last Question"(i think that's the name) by Isaac Asimov.
Same subject, same aproach..

Greetings!

Hi Jim! Thanks for pointing me to this mind blowing sci fi story by Asimov. Wow! It sure made fascinating reading! Even Asimov thought that The Last Question, first copyrighted in 1956, was his best sci fi short story ever. I especially liked the climax!

This is what Asimov said of this short story:

This is by far my favorite story of all those I have written.

After all, I undertook to tell several trillion years of human history in the space of a short story and I leave it to you as to how well I succeeded. I also undertook another task, but I won't tell you what that was lest l spoil the story for you.

It is a curious fact that innumerable readers have asked me if I wrote this story. They seem never to remember the title of the story or (for sure) the author, except for the vague thought it might be me. But, of course, they never forget the story itself especially the ending. The idea seems to drown out everything -- and I'm satisfied that it should.

This is a must read for sci fi fans. And probably answers the age old question!! Here's the link:

The Last Question

So, is this another fictional story that is actually the truth? Did you know that this is in line with Hindu mythology, wherein Brahma closes his eyes to rest for a trillion years and when he opens them, there's light!

Cheers!


[edit on 14-8-2008 by mikesingh]

Hi Mike ,

so in the future my lovely wife will be a machine ?
Well , I prefer don ' t know that future ... I love blood and flesh
Don't you ?

Originally posted by guerande
Hi Mike ,

so in the future my lovely wife will be a machine ?

Well , I prefer don ' t know that future ... I love blood and flesh

Don't you ?

You bet I do!! And how!! But way into the future you would probably enjoy doing stuff in the pure energy state much more than you would in the physical state!!! In other words, there may be better and more enjoyable stuff that'll keep us busy during weekends!!

Cheers!

Well Mike , if you say so ... hope you are right
BTW , are u living really in Europe ? Italy , if I'm right ? USA being sleeping ...

I think I made a mistake ... you went in Europe some days ago , don ' t you ?
And you had no time enaugh to stay in La Baule ? Where I say you could inhabit for some days ... at home ! Lost part of harware and I'm trying to re-built !
Anyway , have a good day , and enjoy " real flesh and blood " before it's too late

this comes in mind with a prospect of a new religion I want to create. What if man is its own creator? What if in the future, man becomes so developed that we invent time travel, and super enhanced organic based life forms? What if jesus was one of them, what if budda was one of them. There existance is to merely push us in a given direction so that we can advance faster then what we had before and thus create a new multi-dimensional pattern, whereby we as humans evolve to a greater degree, and thus advance even further. Its kinda like, if a man went back 100,000 years, and taught basic man agriculture, masonary etc, then if you believe in multi-dimensionism, that we create a new universe where we learned that 100,000 yrs ago, vs 15,000 years ago. What would the reprocussions be on that society. Does it survive, if not why, send someone back again on that time line to tweak it. You can keep doing this in perpetuality provided you don't mess with the original time-line/universe where it all originated, and therefore, the product of our evolution could very well be ourselves in different universes going out and exploring and seeking to advance ourselves/no themselves in a multi-dimensional universe. Would we stay human forever, would we evolve into something higher. I personally think that in order to shed out biological form, we would have so far advanced beyond what we are currently today, that we would have no concept of what they would be. Its like an ant trying to understand what we are thinking.. Man only uses 10% of its brain, what would we be at at 100%. Why would this not be sufficient and require us to evolve?

Just my 2 cents

camain