63 years ago, there was no bell, no siren, just hell.

It surprises me to see several posters on this thread bitching, that's right BITCHING, about why it was or was not right to drop the bomb, and going on in 'patriotic' overtones about how it 'saved lives' etc.

What these small children need to learn, is that the 'reasons' behind the dropping of the bomb are irrelevant!

The fact that the bomb was dropped should expose the horror of mankinds darkest abilities, in all their sickening 'glory'.

I for one do not care if the USA dropped the bomb to drop the war. I do not care that the Japs bombed the living daylights out of Pearl Harbour....

What I do care about is the fact that people here have not grown up. That these people have not seen that war is futile. It wastes time, energy, and skill. Sure, some interesting inventions have come about as a result of war, but just imagine what we as a human race could really achieve if we eliminated war and conflict from our lives.

Imagine the wonders of the universe that could be opened up to us, if we spent our time exploring our universe instead of bombing the 'seven shades of #' out of each other!

Stop bitching, start learning.

Fin.

While you were getting these photos, did you notice the lack of medical pictures of the victims of the bombs? I did a project on the Nukes in High School and nearly failed because I couldnt find any pictures for the medical section of the paper!

After reseaching it I found the goverment invading the sites and ordering the pictures be removed... Think they are covering something up?

Originally posted by Perplexed
reply to post by ghofer

 

And your whole argument can be obliterated by referencing Okinawa. Look at the loses there and then compare that to an invasion of Japan. There would have been hundreds of thousands killed. Not one more Navy man or Marine was worth that. The bomb was the correct path to victory.

Complete destruction of those two cities saved countless American lives. You may disagree but the Americans of WWII didn't. They wanted their men home and the bomb did just that.

Still no comments on the articles though and that Japan was about to surrender? Or why was it that they had to nuke not just one, but two cities and the civilians instead of going after military targets? Well, keep on living in the dark I guess.

Lets look at this just a little differently. If the bombs had not been dropped, how many Americans and Japanese reading and posting on this very thread would not be here today to do so? Probably me for one, since my father was being trained for the invasion of Japan, but ended up serving in the occupation forces instead.

Reality is much like a coin in that there are two sides to it, as well.

OP: Thanks for sharing your pictures and experience with us, here on ATS.

I'm guessing that you are talking about the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor and then the Americans fighting back, if not I apologize for what I am about to say. I know that many people are going to hate me for what I am about to say but there is so much anger built up inside me for what happened that I don't care what other people say or think.

My great grandfather died in the bombing of Pear Harbor. The Japanese had prepared an attack and had carried it out, knowing that many US citizens were going to die. Did they think that we were not going to fight back? If they had brought war upon us, why would they cry and b**ch about it when we have to defend ourselves, and by doing that, killing their people. I do feel bad for the people who had to die an unnecessary death but come on, they should have known what was coming to them.

@ Agit8dChop...

Excellent thread, thank you for taking the time to share this.

I can't begin to imagine how those people suffered.

So what did the bomb crater look like? I've been to Vietnam and the craters made by the B52's around Hue and and Chu Lie were big enough to drop a car in and those were conventional bombs. I can only imagine how big the crater is in Hiroshima. For some reason I don't think there is a crater, but surely there has to be...duck and cover. Peace

A very good thread. This shows clearly the death and destruction that science and techonology can unleash.

Lets pray to god that this never happens again.

Great thread... just can't believe people are already vehemently trying to justify the use of the bomb...

If Germany had gotten the atomic bomb first, and used it on America and Europe to get them to surrender to save thousands of German lives, you guys would be singing a very different song.

Everyones a hypocrite, whether they realize it or not.

reply to post by Perplexed

They got what they deserved and I am happy it was done. Better their entire nation than one more US sailor or Marine. Some here would rather of had us shed more American blood and even have lost the war as opposed to the Japs losing... Lets not forget who STARTED it and who FINISHED it shall we?..

So...you condone that killing lots of people is okay.... because......the innocent people who died had nothing to do with the events leading up to their death?

The people who died in Japan werent the same people who attacked America.

How would you like it if Russia attacked the United States because of our role in Iraq, and Putin personally put a bullet in your head?

Would it "be okay" and how many people would be glad it happened?


Your absence of logical interpretation is breath-taking.

Innocent lives should never be the victim of one mans lust for war.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
I wasn't even born when those bombs were dropped. My dad was with the Army stationed in Iraq at the time, so at least I'm glad he wasn't directly involved in the event.

However, I've seen video documentaries of nuke tests (long after they'd been declassified, of course). I've heard about the effects of those tests on the "volunteer" soldiers that were attending.

Yes, peace is the only answer if we're to evolve ourselves socially into a world of brothers & sisters. Knowing of the atrocities being committed by the US government even today, a reminder such as this strengthens my resolve to do what I can to see peace finally reign.

Thanks for the reminder...

I for one would have been extremely proud if any family of mine happened to be involved in the Atomic Program, including up to the Enola Gay and the dropping of Little Boy over Hiroshima. It was a tough mission, and one which had to be carried out in order to hasten the end of World War Two. If you cannot realize the importance behind "The Bomb" at the time, and how many lives it saved in the end, then you are lost.

As for the Modern Day United States Government, exactly what "atrocities" are they committing these days? They happen to be one of the fairest and most righteous governments in History. Sure, the U.S. is far from perfect, and there are plenty of issues especially in regards to the Political Representatives. However, where do you get off laying down blanket claims accusing the United States Government of "committing atrocities"?

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
So what did the bomb crater look like? I've been to Vietnam and the craters made by the B52's around Hue and and Chu Lie were big enough to drop a car in and those were conventional bombs. I can only imagine how big the crater is in Hiroshima. For some reason I don't think there is a crater, but surely there has to be...duck and cover. Peace

Air Bursts do not leave craters. The conventional bombs used in Vietnam, which left the craters that you witnessed, were direct impact munitions. For a Comparison to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki effects, look at Tunguska (1908 Air Blast) which left Miles of leveled trees and utter destruction, but absolutely NO Crater.

History Repeats itself, this will, and repeated will happen again, I'm certain of it. Though most likely not in the US, we all back home will be able to have the luxury to bitch about dropping it but those who got hit don't have that luxury anymore. Don't take your days for granted.

Originally posted by ghofer


I disagree. Read some articles on the history of what happened. Do you really think the nukes were necessary? Can you not imagine that maybe they could have nuked a military target instead as a demonstration? Do you realize Japan was crushed economically and militarily before they were nuked and seeking surrender? Only people in the U.S. still believe the myth that the bombs were necessary. Even the majority of the military commanders at the time did not think the nuclear weapons should be used. I think I'd agree with those in the know.

The terrible loss of life in WW2 is a stain on the history of mankind.


But lets not forget who started the war, and lets not forget what the japanese military did everywhere they went.
The atrocities they commited are so horrifing that they are almost beyond comprehension.
Many men who had managed to survive imprisonment by the japanese military, usually say that if they knew what was in store for them they never would have surrendered.


And how can you say "Even the majority of the military commanders at the time did not think the nuclear weapons should be used. I think I'd agree with those in the know" . That is utter BS only, a small number of people were even aware of the bomb when it was dropped.
They only people who argued aginst its use were afraid it would trigger a chain reaction in the atmosphere.
And after the terrible casualties from the fighting in the pacific campaign, and knowing that the japanese people would not surrender, I doubt that there would be any commander in the in service, that would argue against the use of it to bring a quick end to the war.

It was absolutely necesary to end the war as quickly as possible, not only did using the bombs avert a huge loss of allied troops, it averted the deaths of millions of ordinary japanese citizens.
And while the allies were bogged down trying to subdue the islands the military would have continued to fight from manchuria, and other parts of asia.


Does any one know what the significance of august 12th 1945 is?



ANYONE?







It is the day the japanese army successfully detonated an atomic bomb in the coastal waters off manchuria.
Yes they had a working atomic bomb, and the ability to manufacture more.
The japanese were far from beaten, the military only quit fighting because the emporer ordered it so.
They still had more than 2 million men available safely garrisoned in manchuria. and the western parts of the empire.
Most of their military industrial manufacturing capacity had been transfered to manchuria as well, by this stage in the war.
They still had thousands of combat ready aircraft,l and new models were on the verge of being deployed. Jet powered fighters with radar and antiship missles.
They had built underground airfields with cliff side take off/landing entrances.
They would have had the ability to strike at an armada with a 20min turn around.
They had developed a cruise missle type rocket that would have been very effective.
They had weaponized the plague and typhus, and when they surrended there was a mission in progress to bomb San Deigo with plague and typhus.
Of the three submarines that set out from japan, we sunk one off hawaii, one "lost at sea" ie scuttled, and the other was actually lost at sea.
To this day, in manchuria, they still have outbreaks of typhus and plague in the areas where they used it on the chinese.

The only people who are to blame for the deaths of japanese citizens is the japanese high command.

Originally posted by punkinworks



Does any one know what the significance of august 12th 1945 is?



ANYONE?

It is the day the japanese army successfully detonated an atomic bomb in the coastal waters off manchuria.
Yes they had a working atomic bomb, and the ability to manufacture more.

Do you have the factual proof to back that up? Any credible verifiable research material and evidence?

DO YOU?

I've heard many WW2 rumours before but that takes the cake of being the most ridiculous I have ever heard.

Simply ridiculous...

[edit on 11-8-2008 by AntisepticSkeptic]

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
So what did the bomb crater look like? I've been to Vietnam and the craters made by the B52's around Hue and and Chu Lie were big enough to drop a car in and those were conventional bombs. I can only imagine how big the crater is in Hiroshima. For some reason I don't think there is a crater, but surely there has to be...duck and cover. Peace

Air Bursts do not leave craters. The conventional bombs used in Vietnam, which left the craters that you witnessed, were direct impact munitions. For a Comparison to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki effects, look at Tunguska (1908 Air Blast) which left Miles of leveled trees and utter destruction, but absolutely NO Crater.

Thanks for the answer, but may I ask, what is the mushroom cloud produced from if not the ground directly underneath the explosion? Air doesn't turn into ash and smoke, but only those things which combust and are sucked up into the vacuum left from the blast, which would cause a crater even if relatively small. Tunguska is not known for the cause, so it would be hard to compare that to a nuclear blast bomb. Nuclear is a scare tactic nothing more in my opinion. Watch the test movies. It's all miniature models in a vacuum chamber. Funny how the houses blow apart but the camera is unmovable that is filming. Why does the sky go dark when the blast goes off? Germany and France had Buildings that look just like the ones in Hieroshima, but from conventional bombs. No doubt the city was bombed, but not by a nuclear weapon...Splitting the atom had a much different purpose then we are "Scared" into believing. In my opinion it's all scare tactics and propoganda no different than 9/11 or Pearl Harbor. Real events happen, just not what your told.

Another thing, remember which department "Nuclear" falls under? It falls under the "Department of Energy", and not Department of Defense. Peace

"Wait a minute doc, are you telling me this sucker is nuclear?" "No, no...this sucker's electrical, but i need a nuclear reaction to generate the 1.21 jiggawatts of power"..."the only thing that can generate that is a bolt of lightning" - Back to the Future, Doc Brown

[edit on 11-8-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

The Japanese people or at least those in charge were ruthless, heartless, cold blooded killers. Here is just a few of the things they did before we dropped the bomb...

The horrendous atrocities that occurred during World
War II were unmerciful as well as unnecessary. During one
invasion of China, the rape of Nanking, the Japanese killed
100,000 Chinese civilians. They were burned, butchered, and
raped. Sometimes the Japanese would tie a big group of them
together and use them for bayonet and sword practice. After
the fall of Bataan the soldiers were forced to go on a
death march. During this march many unheard of things
happened to the soldiers. A soldier was often killed for
trying to get a drink of water. If a soldier fell down the
Japanese would either bayonet them or knock them
unconscious. Once they were knocked unconscious, the
Japanese then forced another American soldier to bury the
unconscious soldier alive. One soldier once commented, "The
worst time was once when a burial victim with about six
inches of earth over him suddenly regained consciousness and
clawed his way out until he was almost sitting upright. Then
I learned to what length a man will go to hang onto his
life. The bayonets began to prod me in the side and I was
forced to bash the soldier over the head with the shovel and
then finish burying him."(Kappler, Pg. 168) This harsh
treatment to innocent civilians and our soldiers
needed to stop. The atomic bomb was a way to stop it.

www.cyberessays.com...



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[edit on 12-8-2008 by GAOTU789]

And how can you say "Even the majority of the military commanders at the time did not think the nuclear weapons should be used. I think I'd agree with those in the know" . That is utter BS only, a small number of people were even aware of the bomb when it was dropped.
They only people who argued aginst its use were afraid it would trigger a chain reaction in the atmosphere.
And after the terrible casualties from the fighting in the pacific campaign, and knowing that the japanese people would not surrender, I doubt that there would be any commander in the in service, that would argue against the use of it to bring a quick end to the war.

It was absolutely necesary to end the war as quickly as possible, not only did using the bombs avert a huge loss of allied troops, it averted the deaths of millions of ordinary japanese citizens.
And while the allies were bogged down trying to subdue the islands the military would have continued to fight from manchuria, and other parts of asia.

I posted my sources disputing your claims that you believe are fact and you have not provided any contrary evidence or provided your own sources. Discussion over.

reply to post by dampnickers


It doesn't just waste time, energy an skill, it also wastes HUMAN LIVES.

It makes me so sad that this happened, but in the end what we all have to remember is that this was a WORLD WAR. Do you think that if the Japan or Germany had the atomic bomb they wouldn't have used it? I think it could have been much much worse if Germany had the atomic bomb, and not the USA.

I'm not saying it was necessarily a 'good' thing that USA dropped the atomic bombs (because there is way too much gray area for this to be a black and white decision) but I am glad they did, because Australia was so so SO VERY close to being invaded by Japan. The Darwin bombing was bad enough.

[edit on 13/05/2008 by just_julie]

Great thread! Really made me stop and think. It's hard to wrap my brain around the magnitude of the event. Your pictures and words helped that.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.