From Agnostic To Atheist

Originally posted by sc2099
sort of petulant and self centered, don't you think? Not to mention immature. If Jews who survived the Holocaust can still manage to believe in god, I think it's obvious that you're just being childish about this.

To clarify it's not just this incident, it's the fact that so many of the lovely religious people are rather awful human beings, it's the fact that religion is used as an excuse to kill milllions of people. It's the fact that the more i see of the world the less a god makes sense. This incident was just the last straw i suppose. Don't think i'm petty enough to use only one little thing like this as the main reason for changing my beliefs.

Oh and for those going on about hitler, he wasn't an atheist so please stop spouting that lie.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
My stance was alawys that a god could possibly exist. However after this instance of utter hatred towards myself, i decided god wouldn't allow such a thing. I also got tired of religious people equating agnostics with atheists.

Read above whammy it's not just this one little incident, if it were then i agre that would be pathetic. As i said above, it was just the last straw, so many religious people justify violence with their faith and it drives me rather nuts. Also the number of times i'm called an atheist when i was in fact an agnostic is rather large, so i decided i may as well just call myself an atheist.
[edit on 11-8-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

[edit on 11-8-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Quite frankly I don't blame you! You have a right to have feelings and they are justified.

I am seeing a lot of anger amongst the religious today. Just look at the threads we have on ATS and you "hear" the rage amongst them! Very quick to denounce and criticize everyone's posts. I add atheism into that jumble as I look at them as dogmatic also.

If we can see and understand that there is a panic and an underlying fear for the future with many people, and that certainly includes the self-righteous. We are experiencing many institutions going down and that includes religion.

I am not religious, for Jesus (possibly) said; that you would be able to identify those who are his people for the love they have for each other. It is easy to see that there is not much love displayed here, and in the world, among those who claim to be followers of Christ; who claim to be setting the example.

Don't get bogged down by the hypocrisy. Take whatever stand you choose and then stand by it! I have a saying, "Right, wrong or indifferent, this is how I feel!" Then stand by that, and don't be swayed by codependency to be trapped into making a decision that does not feel right for you!

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
GreaT post !! The Peoples Republic of China alone is up to 76,702,000. ALONE add Stalin with around 60,000,000 Pol Pot in Cambodia with over 2 million+ N korea and 100 million is being WAY to generous for the atheists.

This site has the most detailed stats on Democide: :www.hawaii.edu...

Erm whammy sorry but no. Yes they are atheists, but that isn't the motivation for their killing of people. Whereas religious wars are all about religion and that is the motivation. It's a subtle difference. Basically atheism hasn't been the motivating force to kill.

People want to believe in something sacred so much, that they would kill for it.

What would you kill for, 1984? Don't tell me you'd never kill. Deny your dark side, and you're just as half minded as the people who go into the light so much that they think dark is the enemy. It should ALL be embraced... and balance will be a mild form of amusement. Don't wanna get too attached to a temporary thing, now do ya?

A bomb is relatively silent until it hits the ground. That's just its nature. Not too fast. Not too slow. But once the ground decides to stop it... things get heated.

Forgive, and judge not... unless you want to judge yourself.

Why did this disturb you so much? Who was this person, and was there alcohol or obvious fundamentalism involved?

Similar to my first question... What are you fundamental about? Would you kill to defend a friend? Would you kill for family? Would you kill to survive? Those are all very acceptable, yet all very fundamental beliefs as well.

There's no difference. Knowing this would have led you to avoid even discussing the issue to a point where it erupted in violence.

Let it be, because it's all a belief. Everything. It will always be that way.

Question, but do not pretend to know the answer ever. You don't know. I don't know. Nobody knows.

Atheist out of spite for something. That's a new one. Never heard that response before...

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
People want to believe in something sacred so much, that they would kill for
Atheist out of spite for something. That's a new one. Never heard that response before...

Again someone misses the point. I'm not an atheist because of this one litle incident, that would be rediculous. I'm an atheist because of evervything i've read and seen, this even was just a cataylst. Please don't downgrade my newely found atheism to a simple outburst of violence against my person.

You think like a child.

So do you if you use arguments like these:

[

I know, how about this: Since Stalin and Mao were atheists, and together killed about 100 million people, you want to be a murderer too. After all, you're an atheist right?

Shoe doesn't fit so well when it's on the other foot, does it?

[edit on 10-8-2008 by sir_chancealot]

Pot, meet kettle....
Your analogy is SO ridiculous it's laughable. LOL
I'm sure jesus would have done the same.... lol

There's no debating people who make delusional claims like that.
If in your warped mind all atheists are murderous, then you are beyond help.

"Jugde not lest you will be jugded", isn't that a line from the bible ?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Welcome to the Free World, my friend.

Looking forward to your first post on Atheist Chat.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Probably a wise move.
But you really should not let the views of one crazed person change your religious stance.

what if you had been arguing with a football fan or a teacher and they attacked you....would you stop liking football or not let your kids or yourself go to school?

I get what your saying and think ultimately it's the right choice....but i fear it's for the wrong reasons.
Common sense and the fact that humans have evolved and grown more aware than they were 2000 years ago should be enough for you to stop believing in santa....er.. i mean jesus/god, not just the actions of an idiot.

Enjoy the clarity my friend

Originally posted by blupblup
Probably a wise move.
But you really should not let the views of one crazed person change your religious stance.

Again it isn't about one person, that was just the last straw to it all, the realisation that religion is used an awful lot by nasty and bad people to justify their actions, they often perform their actions because of their religion as well.

Originally posted by blupblup
what if you had been arguing with a football fan or a teacher and they attacked you....would you stop liking football or not let your kids or yourself go to school?

No hang on go back and lok what i've said, it's not just this one incident, that would be silly.

Originally posted by blupblup
I get what your saying and think ultimately it's the right choice....but i fear it's for the wrong reasons.
Common sense and the fact that humans have evolved and grown more aware than they were 2000 years ago should be enough for you to stop believing in santa....er.. i mean jesus/god, not just the actions of an idiot.

Enjoy the clarity my friend

Clarity has never been an issue, you talk as if i was a religious beliver when i was an agnostic. Agnostics have as much clarity as atheists, my new position however is that religion is a bad thing, holds us back, causes wars and generally gets in the way.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984



Ok fair enough, i may not have read into what was written and i apologise.
I read your post on the other thread and am a little clearer as to why you've taken this decision.

Good on you anyway, an good luck.

I've discussed religion with a lot of people, by the religious i'm called an atheist, even though i'm an agnostic, by the atheists i'm called a coward because i can't come out as an atheist. Even though i really am an agnostic they say such things.

ehh lol, I know exactly what you mean. When I considered myself agnostic, whenever I was in a debate, atheists would call me a "politically correct" atheist. In that I had the same mindset as an atheist, but went about it in a politically correct way to not offend theists. I didn't really understand it then, but slowly and surely I did. When an atheist is in a debate with a theist he holds nothing back, he says, "I dont believe in God". When an agnostic is in a debate with a theist he says something along the lines of "We'll I'm not sure, there may or there may not be a God, but I am open to the possibility". See, it's the same with an atheist, I am open to the possibilty of God, but I will never believe unless there is proof, and I will tell that to the theist.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I've been agnostic since i was about 7 or 8 years old. I was raised christian but quickly rejected this teaching as i saw so many contradictions in the bible even at a young age.

I've discussed religion with a lot of people, by the religious i'm called an atheist, even though i'm an agnostic, by the atheists i'm called a coward because i can't come out as an atheist. Even though i really am an agnostic they say such things.

Recently however i was absolutely attacked by a devout christian, he not only attacked me verbally but ended up attacking me physically and so i made a decision. If this is what a religious believer is, if they physically attack me simply because i disagree with them, then obviously their religion is pointless and rubbish. Their religion preaches peace but they attacked me.

So that's it, i'm an atheist i've decided and all those out their who are religious, well it's your fault. It's the fault of a christian that's driven me to it, physically being attacked caused me to become an atheist.

Maybe you need to learn that peace is the way, not physical assault.

So yes that's it, i'm now an atheist and christians, you have a follower of yours to blaim.

Lets look at this problem with logic shall we?

1. If this "Christian" attacked you verbally and physically then he wasn't a Christian. He was a "ravening wolf in sheeps clothing". Remember, Hitler claimed himself Christian as well. And history proves he clearly was not. Jesus Christ never taught that. Therefore he wan't following in the ways of Christ. That by default prevented him from being a "CHRISTian."

2. There are no such things as Atheists, it's impossible. In order to know for sure (100%) that there is NO GOD anywhere in the vastness of the universe it would take an omniscient being. No human is. Actually all atheists are agnostic, meaning they have no evidence to believe in God. The only way a person can make the claim that there is no God, nowhere in the universe would mean that they would have to have been everywhere in the universe at the same time to verify this. That would not only make them omniscient but also omnipresent as well. Again, impossible for a human.

An "atheist" doesn't exist. At least not with any degree of logic. Just because someone has not seen evidence of something doesn't by default mean that it exists nowhere in the universe. That's a logical fallacy.

You're an agnostic, and those that "claim" they are atheists are agnostics. Only an omniscient, omnipresent entity can claim that "no God exists".

[edit on 11-8-2008 by NOTurTypical]

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I've been agnostic since i was about 7 or 8 years old. I was raised christian but quickly rejected this teaching as i saw so many contradictions in the bible even at a young age.

I've discussed religion with a lot of people, by the religious i'm called an atheist, even though i'm an agnostic, by the atheists i'm called a coward because i can't come out as an atheist. Even though i really am an agnostic they say such things.

Recently however i was absolutely attacked by a devout christian, he not only attacked me verbally but ended up attacking me physically and so i made a decision. If this is what a religious believer is, if they physically attack me simply because i disagree with them, then obviously their religion is pointless and rubbish. Their religion preaches peace but they attacked me.

So that's it, i'm an atheist i've decided and all those out their who are religious, well it's your fault. It's the fault of a christian that's driven me to it, physically being attacked caused me to become an atheist.

Maybe you need to learn that peace is the way, not physical assault.

So yes that's it, i'm now an atheist and christians, you have a follower of yours to blaim.

Lets look at this problem with logic shall we?

1. If this "Christian" attacked you verbally and physically then he wasn't a Christian. He was a "ravening wolf in sheeps clothing". Remember, Hitler claimed himself Christian as well. And history proves he clearly was not. Jesus Christ never taught that. Therefore he wan't following in the ways of Christ. That by default prevented him from being a "CHRISTian."

2. There are no such things as Atheists, it's impossible. In order to know for sure (100%) that there is NO GOD anywhere in the vastness of the universe it would take an omniscient being. No human is. Actually all atheists are agnostic, meaning they have no evidence to believe in God. The only way a person can make the claim that there is no God, nowhere in the universe would mean that they would have to have been everywhere in the universe at the same time to verify this. That would not only make them omniscient but also omnipresent as well. Again, impossible for a human.

An "atheist" doesn't exist. At least not with any degree of logic. Just because someone has not seen evidence of something doesn't by default mean that it exists nowhere in the universe. That's a logical fallacy.

You're an agnostic, and those that "claim" they are atheists are agnostics. Only an omniscient, omnipresent entity can claim that "no God exists".

[edit on 11-8-2008 by NOTurTypical]

stop confusing him

reply to post by NOTurTypical

You have a right to defend your faith, but distorting language so as to make words mean something they do not is a transparent stratagem that will fool no-one.

If this "Christian" attacked you verbally and physically then he wasn't a Christian.

By whose standards? Yours?

The basis of Christianity is given in John 3:16. It may be fairly said that anyone who accepts this verse as true is a Christian. The you have it: the so-called 'Word of God'.

And if 'God's' definition isn't tight enough for you, there's always the Nicene Creed.

In either case, Christianity, as is the case with all religions, is defined by belief, not the expression of it.

You may choose to define Christianity any way that pleases you, but you cannot hope to win an argument with that definition.

There are no such things as Atheists, it's impossible. In order to know for sure (100%) that there is NO GOD anywhere in the vastness of the universe it would take an omniscient being.

Poppycock. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, not a certain knowledge that there are none.

Is this what you call logic, NOTurTypical?

reply to post by Astyanax

By whose standards? Yours?

The basis of Christianity is given in John 3:16. It may be fairly said that anyone who accepts this verse as true is a Christian. The you have it: the so-called 'Word of God'.

And if 'God's' definition isn't tight enough for you, there's always the Nicene Creed.

In either case, Christianity, as is the case with all religions, is defined by belief, not the expression of it.

Wrong, John 3:16 is the basis for salvation. "Christianity" is a monotheistic religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as presented in the New Testament.

So lets examine Jesus's New Testament teachings shall we? I'm just a sinner, lets look at the Biblical standard:


Luke 6:27-30:

"But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also."

Mark 12:28-31:

"Now one of the experts in the law came and heard them debating. When he saw that Jesus answered them well, he asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is: ‘Listen, Israel, the Lord our God is one. Love the Lord your God with your whole heart, with your whole soul, with your whole mind, and with your whole strength.’ The second is: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

John 13:34-35:

""A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Matthew 5:43-48:

"There is a saying, 'Love your friends and hate your enemies.' But I say: Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way you will be acting as true sons of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even scoundrels do that much. If you are friendly only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even the heathen do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect."

Matthew 7:12:

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

9 visible attributes of a "true" Christian:

Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.

Hmmmm, we can safely say that if this person did NOT display and actions of a Christian if he verbally and physically attacked this man for being an agnostic. Sorry to disappoint you.

Poppycock. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, not a certain knowledge that there are none.

Is this what you call logic, NOTurTypical?

Atheism:

n.

1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

[French athéisme, from athée, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless : a-, without; see a–1 + theos, god.]

Thank you for informing me that besides an affirmative denial of any God or Gods, which is logical promiscuity, (it's impossible for a human to hold an omniscient and omnipresent position), I'm forced to concede to you that there is a second form of atheism, "weak atheism". Which states that without evidence or with some evidence they still don't want to believe in God. I'm glad you have shown me that there is an even less logical position one could take.

The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made — an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Sometimes this broader understanding is called "weak" or "implicit" atheism. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this.

There also exists a narrower sort of atheism, sometimes called "strong" or "explicit" atheism. With this type, the atheist explicitly denies the existence of any gods — making a strong claim which will deserve support at some point.

Atheism

Phew what a difficulty it has been holding the ole tongue on this one.

I will do my best to stay civil and fair

I am by no means a Christian. I am a Pagan. I have (historically speaking) seen what happens when Christians attack. The Salem Witch Trials, Ante-Nicene era and so forth.

Meanwhile back in reality I step out of my shelter to realize Pagans have performed atrocious acts as well.

Find me a belief system that has done anything wrong?

It would be so easy for me to turn my back on Christians and Paganism by saying we've both as a historic whole created horrible situations.

First off, you yourself made it sound like this act was the real reason you turned to a new belief system.

So yes that's it, i'm now an atheist and christians, you have a follower of yours to blaim.

You said A follower. There was never a plural indication. Before you stomp on other people's words I would suggest you take a good close look at your own.

Now then, you have claimed that this incident isn't the only reason and I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are honest despite the fact that it greatly appears the recency effect has taken over your thought processes.

Regardless, you claim it's all these acts and that's fine for this argument we are having now.

To start let me say there is a group of people who think just like you do. They are called the Ku Klux Klan or shortened to the KKK. General Nathan Bedford Forrest was shown the idea of the Klan and said he believed it was a 'damg good idea because it helps keep the 'n-word's down.'

These original 6 members saw the acts and behaviors of a set of individuals and condemned an entire society to death.

You on this hand see acts by a society and in some cases a few members and have now condemned them all. Yes the Christian society in the past has done bad things. The thing is, I would really qualify them as Christians. If I were to kill in the name of Isis I am pretty sure I would qualify for the false-paganism award.

Now let's fire at the other argument that athiesm has never been the grounds for murder and mayhem. I am not sure if my disinguished Christian friends here mentioned this one but let's talk about Pol Pot. He starved, tortured, and murdered over a million people. In HIS OWN WORDS, he has denounced ALL religion. The Khmer Rouge killed Christians and Muslims who were caught praying. Their own doctrine stated that all "reactionary religions that are detrimental to Democratic Kampuchea and the Kampuchean People are strictly forbidden."

Please tell me again that an athiest society hasn't killed.

Now let's get to the personal level. If you wish to be athiest or agnostic is no concern of mine. I celebrate true religious freedom to include athiests. I will never ask you to believe as I do but what you have shown here in my own opinion is awful. You condemn and entire society because of actions that never happened to you. Then when this incident does occur to you (and I am sorry it did happen) you switch sides. So now you should note that the Khmer Rouge has killed millions but what makes me doubly concerned about you is that you mentioned being persecuted by athiests and yet you join their ranks. How can this standard exist for you?

You abhor Christians for their mass-murdering acts and hate this one christian for his specific act. Athiests have killed millions (mass-murdering) and and athiest has verbally attacked you. Should you not now exist back in the middle with agnostics?

I'm sorry but this absolute cowardice in the same manner as a Christian becoming offended that someone doesn't believe in God or a Pagan claims persecution because a majority didn't pander to his single belief when the other 1000 don't.

See also:

Mao Tse Tung (athiest regime)

Please, believe as you wish to, but dont' take the cowardly route like this.

-Kyo

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Quoting scripture is hardly going to cut any ice here, is it? Only a Christian would regard that source as authoritative.

And you really should learn what those words in the dictionary definition you quote actually mean - I take it English is your first language?

Originally posted by KyoZero
Find me a belief system that has done anything wrong?

Atheism and agnosticism. Both these systems have never been the catalyst to a massacre. There have been atheists who do bad things, but the actual idea of it has never caused a war. At least none i know of but i'm always happy to learn.

Originally posted by KyoZero
It would be so easy for me to turn my back on Christians and Paganism by saying we've both as a historic whole created horrible situations.

Yes but it's not just history is it, it's cnstantly going on the little in fights between religions, then there is the whole current extremist problem in the world. Without the religions we wouldn't have religious extremists.

Originally posted by KyoZero
First off, you yourself made it sound like this act was the real reason you turned to a new belief system.

No i said it was the tipping point, the last straw etc, if i were to base this on one incident that would be utterly rediculous.

Originally posted by KyoZero
You said A follower. There was never a plural indication. Before you stomp on other people's words I would suggest you take a good close look at your own.

Plural indication not condeming the entire religion but merely telling the other christians that one of your own has tipped me over the edge from agnosticism to atheism. Pluralisation was fine to refer to everyone there as i wasn't blaiming everyone merely telling everyone.

Originally posted by KyoZero
Now then, you have claimed that this incident isn't the only reason and I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are honest despite the fact that it greatly appears the recency effect has taken over your thought processes.

Wow thanks for taking me at my word and yet subtely hinting you think it's rubbish. Lets be very clear, i havea very long list to why i was agnostic and many of theose arguements can easily be put to atheism, read my many other posts for hints to it all.

Originally posted by KyoZero
Regardless, you claim it's all these acts and that's fine for this argument we are having now.

To start let me say there is a group of people who think just like you do. They are called the Ku Klux Klan or shortened to the KKK. General Nathan Bedford Forrest was shown the idea of the Klan and said he believed it was a 'damg good idea because it helps keep the 'n-word's down.'

Oh that's a classic, making me sound rediculous by falsly comparing me to a disgusting organisation like the KKK. Should i mention that many of the KKK have been found to be christians? Should i therefore conclude that all christians are KKK members? No i shouldn't. The KKK think nothing like me, they are pathetic, racist scum.

Originally posted by KyoZero
These original 6 members saw the acts and behaviors of a set of individuals and condemned an entire society to death.

You completely missed the point out of your anger didn't you. I never condenmed all christians because of this one, i merely told all of the christians out their that one of their followers has been the last straw. There are many christians who tell people they're going to hell, was hoping maybe they'd stop as it just drives people from their religion not attract them.

Originally posted by KyoZero
You on this hand see acts by a society and in some cases a few members and have now condemned them all. Yes the Christian society in the past has done bad things. The thing is, I would really qualify them as Christians. If I were to kill in the name of Isis I am pretty sure I would qualify for the false-paganism award.

Again no sorry, the bible has parts in it telling them to kill. Christians who actualy followed the bible word for word would be true christians, and they'd be killing a lot of people for things like adultery. So you could easily say that any christian who doesn't kill an adulterer isn't a christian by your logic.

Originally posted by KyoZero
Now let's fire at the other argument that athiesm has never been the grounds for murder and mayhem. I am not sure if my disinguished Christian friends here mentioned this one but let's talk about Pol Pot. He starved, tortured, and murdered over a million people. In HIS OWN WORDS, he has denounced ALL religion. The Khmer Rouge killed Christians and Muslims who were caught praying. Their own doctrine stated that all "reactionary religions that are detrimental to Democratic Kampuchea and the Kampuchean People are strictly forbidden."

There is a subtle difference there though. Atheism wasn't the cause to kill, hatred was. That's a different thing entirely. Whereas religions often instruct their followers to kill by their own religious texts.

Please tell me again that an athiest society hasn't killed.

Originally posted by KyoZero
Now let's get to the personal level. If you wish to be athiest or agnostic is no concern of mine.

Then why even comment on the thread?

Originally posted by KyoZero
I celebrate true religious freedom to include athiests. I will never ask you to believe as I do but what you have shown here in my own opinion is awful. You condemn and entire society because of actions that never happened to you.

I never condenmed a society, and until this post i dind't condemn a religion. I condemned a religious follower and you seem to have picked up that ball and run a wild ath with it.

Originally posted by KyoZero
Then when this incident does occur to you (and I am sorry it did happen) you switch sides. So now you should note that the Khmer Rouge has killed millions but what makes me doubly concerned about you is that you mentioned being persecuted by athiests and yet you join their ranks. How can this standard exist for you?

No sorry you miss the point again, i have been edging slowly towards atheism for a very lng time, i just didn't realise it. This again i will state was merely the last straw, teh clarifying moment as it were. I won't persecute agnostics and so i can easily be an atheist. The atheists who have a go at agnostics just don't understand or are rather fanactical.

Originally posted by KyoZero
You abhor Christians for their mass-murdering acts and hate this one christian for his specific act. Athiests have killed millions (mass-murdering) and and athiest has verbally attacked you. Should you not now exist back in the middle with agnostics?

Hate? Hate would be a very strong word, the person who attacked me didn't manage to even scratch me, i just feel indignant that a follower of a supposedly peaceful religion was so happy to try and hurt someone else.

Atheists have killed people, but their atheism hasn't been the basis for their attacks. That is the subtle difference.

Originally posted by KyoZero
I'm sorry but this absolute cowardice in the same manner as a Christian becoming offended that someone doesn't believe in God or a Pagan claims persecution because a majority didn't pander to his single belief when the other 1000 don't.

Cowardice? You think standing up for what you believe is cowardice? Well err ok i can't really argue with that as it's quite silly.

Originally posted by KyoZero

Mao Tse Tung (athiest regime)

Please, believe as you wish to, but dont' take the cowardly route like this.

-Kyo

Again, mao Tse Tung didn't base his disgusting actions on his atheism, his atheism wasn't the motivatiing factor.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I think a big problem with people's lack of knowledge concerning Stalin and Mao is
flagrant NON-coverage of these issues

If you turn on your T.V., you're likely to find two or more shows (documentaries)
on Hitler, but, I, personally NEVER see anything on Stalin, Marx, Lenin or Mao!

Why is that?
Dumbing down a nation?
Who owns the media?
To say that atheism is not associated with atrocities is like saying the inquisitions were about papal authority and nothing more.

[edit on 12-8-2008 by Clearskies]

Ok once again. He banned ALL religion and his people killed people praying on the spot. That's massacre and that is based off of atheism.

So that's it, i'm an atheist i've decided and all those out their who are religious, well it's your fault. It's the fault of a christian that's driven me to it, physically being attacked caused me to become an atheist.

It's the fault of a Christian that's driven me to it. That there says you have been changed to atheism. I will concede that somehow in your mind you said "this was a tipping point." No I don't believe you because what you said in that post screamed recency.

Nowhere did I say standing up for your beliefs is cowardly but think about your accusation of me.

You stood up in the face of accusers and stayed agnostic. Believe it or not I salute you for that. People knocked you down and stuck true to your belief and that is wonderful. (I really mean that...no sarcasm at all)

Then in your very own words you say being physically attacked DROVE you to become an athiest. That to me is the cowardice I spoke of. You had a very unfortunate event. I'm sorry it happened to you I really am but you let a prejudice move you into a new direction. To me that is just like the somehting that happened to the KKK. They had a prejudice against blacks. That's a terrible thought to most but because of it they have killed blacks and so called 'black-sympathizers.'

You have obviously not killed so I really don't need you picking it apart which you still might as that is your freedom. The point is by your own account and the original post, that violent act drove you to atheism. The prejudice of another offended and affected you and now you have swapped to atheism.

Now I am sure very soon there will be another post picking and twisting my words so I shall take my leave of this thread for now.

Good luck to you in whatever path you stick to

EDIT TO REPLY TO CLEARSKIES

Yes I agree. I am no master of history but it is quite clear that Hitller while he may not be palatable was the popular choice for historical repitition. He was the guy we all wanted to know about and I am sure some of that has to do with the intense involvement of America.

Nice addition and I am glad to see I am not completely alone in seeing that atheism has caused some issues

-Kyo

[edit on 12-8-2008 by KyoZero]