You sound like a person who has recently turned his life around and became saved. Don't judge so hard.

so nice of you to join us Viewfromthestars.

Job has to be one of my all time favorite misinterpreted story of all time.

I was taught in college that Satan "manipulated" God by saying that Job is only singing your praises oh Lord because he has no reason not to. God took the bait and said....uh hu no dat not tru...uh hu...watch...I will take this from him...Satan says.....lol......yeah, but that really isn't any big deal...God hops around and then says.....ok ok...watch this....and the story goes on from there. After blasting my professor and the morons in my religion class for even taking notes.....I left. So Job brings up fond memories and just another reason I can't stand when people take the Bible literally or found some way to interpret that story in that way.....

Sorry but fear tactics about Hell is just not going to get the job done these days. Hell is the complete seperation from God.....If you are sentient...meaning still capable of thinking....maybe even feeling....you aint in Hell. If you want to try the old Catholic purgatory...well that might be a different topic.

You also said that only through Jesus can you get into heaven......I agree but of course you have a much more literal and elementary understanding of what that means. To make it as simple as possible.....10 people die and of 10 different religions.................

dude number 1.......he is agnostic....he never gave God much thought or religion....he lived by the golden rule.....he is standing right next to dude number 2.....a fire and brimstone Christian fundamentalist.....as a matter of fact, number 2 can't even shut his mouth while waiting in line to meet Jesus...He still is telling number one that he is about to get thrown into Hell.
.....number 1 walks up to Jesus....Jesus says.....hey, remember when you gave Sid a ride to the hospital? the man says...who? Jesus says..."the hitch hiker you picked up 36 years ago when you were in college." man says..."barely" That was me. Thank-you.....make sure you stop at the buffet table before you talk to Peter..........number 2 walks up and is frankly pissed that the agnostic just went right through the gate with only being told one thing and not judged for all the sins that he must certainly be accountable for. Jesus says to this Christian..."hey, do you remember Sid?" the man says, "you mean the guy you just asked the agnositc man about?" Jesus says, "yes" man says, "no, should I?" Jesus says, "yes, that was me and you told me that I was going to burn in Hell if I didn't repent.....as a matter of fact you told Chris he is going to burn because he was a homosexual....You told Kester, David and Kyle they were going to burn because they were Jews.....You professed to speak for me yet I don't know you and you don't know me......Did you enjoy your life? the nervous Christian man says "yes" well than you got all you deserve, my kingdom is for my friends and for those that fed me when I was hungry, that clothed me when I was naked....etc.....you did none of that and even when you did....you did it to save your soul rather than to love your neighbor.....I don't know you so good bye. that Christian man then pleads to not be sent to Hell.....Jesus says...."there is no hell to fear" and the man blinks out of existence forever.

You are correct. Only through Jesus will anyone ever get into heaven....I suggest you look around for him and start following his teachings or you will be that man who blinks out
......and.....even though I really really wish you were right about a physical hell because I also believe "it is better to hang a millstone around your neck than to harm a child" and of course it is great to take that literally but it also means that when you harm the faith of a person or their potential relationship with God, you are he that this passage also speaks too, because of course you have also read that there is nothing more pure than the faith of a child. When you spout unChrist like teachings and some child or adult decides that Jesus and God are evil bastards and they learn to hate Christianity....well, go pick out a good sized millstone.

(((edit: It obviously took me some time to write this post so I didn't see (tehkid's???) post at the top of this page.....there you go Op and viewfromthestars. That person is one of the people Jesus is going to ask you about and why I believe you and your kind should be shopping around for millstones.....good timing poster, thanks.)))))

[edit on 9-8-2008 by Res Ipsa]

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Hey Re,
Your last posting that mentioned me and my beliefs....left me confused as heck. What were you saying? or more importantly what were you saying I was saying?

that running around being a huge jerk and telling people they all are going to hell and generally being rude and obnoxious, is no way to invite people into jesus love. am i wrong? were you not trying to tell the OP the same thing before? if so i appologize. thought you were at least agreeing with me that he was not doing christianity or people or jesus any favors with this line of berating everyone.

Originally posted by bruxfain

Originally posted by dave77
what do you guys think if the world had no religion?

Do you mean some sort of Soviet style genocide and an athiest world?

If so, I think that the religious people should also be able to take with them all that they have contributed to the world throughout history. I think in a world without religion, you'd have a world of animals, feral humans amoung them, that eat and live in filth, communicate by grunts and hoots. and live even shorther less meaningful lives than they already do.

A world without religion would be a large zoo.

no medicine, no astronomy -remember earth is the center of the universe, no correct maps - the earth would still be flat, no biology.......oh wait, these are things that religion tried so hard to suppress. nevermind then. why assume that without religion there would be genocide? look at all genocides and tell me what the main characteristics are.....people being defined by race, geographic locale, religion. just imagine all the death that would not have happends due to religious wars, religious persecution. i think it is cute that religious people are so afraid that if there were no religion, there would be nothing but death and chaos.
ok, lets see, no religion = no child molesting priests in the ranks of thousands, no crusades, witch trials, inquisitions, slavery, manifest destiny, i can go on but i think you get the point. religion has not exactly kept its hands clean. although it has tried so hard to keep science and knowledge under wraps, it has failed to do so completely and people have accidentally learned things that improved our lives. or maybe you would like to go back to the wonderfully peaceful and happy dark ages where religion ruled the day.

Man of power, over kingdoms and nations. He is of no limits no hesitation yet the power of this Man, colossal, crumbles at the sight of his conscience....for the power he holds has power over himself.

Self contemplate yourself so you can contemplate others.

Home,
That story was a quick off the top of my head example, but the message or point was what I was going for.

Notice how I didn't even get to the other 8 guys, they weren't necessary to make my point.

The first and greatest commandment is Love God with all your heart....
soooooo many people think that means praise God with all your might and when you don't.....you aren't following the commandment....you are falling short....you are dissapointing God...you are making him sad....you are making him jealous.....you are making him Angry......WRONG!@@@

It isn't about praise. He didn't create us so he could be worshipped. When you understand God you just can't help thanking him and being all joyful and stuff. You just kind of end up singing him praise. Loving God is about knowing God, knowing God is about knowing Love. Notice how the next commandment is Love thy neighbor as yourself.....it is just another way of restating the first commandment. Why did they even bother with the other 8? Same thing. Find as many ways to say the same thing and people are bound to understand at least one of the explanations.

Judgement day is another misnomer too. I mean sure, you get to play "this is your life" with Jesus when you meet him but I don't believe it is going to be a one to one check off list.....for example....Jesus says "ok, here we go...you took my father's name in vain.....47,362 times and yes, I am counting that one time at the DMV in 1978 where you thought it. But I see that you said the Lord's prayer 47,363.....ooooooh, you just made it there buddy by 1!" nope, it doesn't work like that either. There is absolutely no way what so ever can I tell you if so and so is getting in or not or could I even imagine the parameters but the bottom line is...."what so ever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do on to me" If Jesus vouches for you....in you go. That includes Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, and the Pwattatui's on some remote island that worship the lava rock because they have never heard of Jesus. Every human that has love has God living in them. He knows the heart of everyone.
Now if you ask me what is the best way to not go to heaven....I would say to spread as much hate as possible....I would also try and get as many other people to hate as well and for the cherry on top, I would acknowledge that God exists and tell him I want nothing to do with him. God isn't going to force you to join him. It might not be fair by human standards that these people don't get to die and then have to face Jesus and plead for their souls. We would just love to see their faces when they find out how wrong they were....but sadly...they just go "blink" bye.
Now, I suppose you still think there is a physical Hell. Lets say your brother screws up so bad that he gets sent there and now you are in heaven and you miss playing golf with him. Actually you still love your brother very much and it is just killing you that they are in Hell. Doesn't sound like you are enjoying Heaven all that much at that point.
We are not prohibited from eternity with God simply because we were born in Iran or Israel or our last name is Shapiro.
A big caveat I should also point out. It is written somewhere in the Bible that it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle than it is to enter Heaven. (literally they were talking about the narrow entrance into some city that is called an eye of the needle) but the lesson is.....you can not EARN your way into heaven. You can not pretend to know or preach how a person is to get into Heaven and you can't your money nor possessions, just maybe a small carry on. (kidding) So my take on it is just a part of my Consistent Christian doctrine because JC didn't call me with the info.

Job... I probably should read it again but if I remember it right, it would require a lengthy explanation on how that fits into CC. But it clearly is not to understood as Satan and God having a debate and using poor Job as a pawn.

The how you live your life thing.....love as much and as often as you can and you will be loving God in that measure, remember that everyone has God living in them. Remember that the next time you flip some guy off, you just gave God the finger....Jesus might bring that up, who knows?
God made it so the dumbest and slowest of humans can understand what it is to live a "good" life. I mean who doesn't comprehend "do on to others as you would have them do on to you" even if they can't form the words or idea in their heads....they just know by "instinct" (a science explanation) I say it is God that lives inside them. Natural Law to me is explained by a living God. (St. Thomas Aquitas has some great thoughts on natural law)

The capacity of God's forgiveness also makes the check off sheet a non issue. Once forgiven.....it is removed from your permanent record. But even that is a bit dangerous if misunderstood. Just because your sins are forgiven it doesn't mean that you fed Jesus when he was hungry and all of that stuff....so you may have a clean slate.....but if Jesus doesn't know you he really can't vouch for you. Oh, and I don't think you can say "ok, God please forgive me for all my sins....amen" I think you need to be specific otherwise you are just paying lip service. (just my take again)
.

Oh Noez!!! I'm a Muslim I'm going to hell! Aaah, I also love to watch lesbian Porn with my husband, must mean I am a closeted homo! Double going to hell! Oh Helio, you know the way, save me, saaaaaaaaaaave meeeeeeeeee!

On a serious note. I am usually one to get fired up within from evident ignoramuses as this but your arguements are weak, lame and I just had to chuckle. You are one within the box! Step outside!

Who are you to call Allah a fake God. Read the quran (not the fakes written by people with the same mentality as you, to spread fallacies.) but the real one. Islam, Judism and Christianity are all abrahamic faiths, we teach the very same things (Except Christians accept Jesus as the son of God , Jews deny Jesus all together and Muslims accept Jesus as a pure man of no sin a prophet!)

Stating Allah is false. That would be blasphemy for a Christian! Well you will pee off allot of Arab Christians. They say Allah (Its easier to use their mother tongue rather the second language English right?) Direct translation of Allah (From Arabic to English) is GOD!

Hate to burst your bubble bud, but even Jesus (s.a.w.s) used the word Allah in his day, Arabic and Aramiac are languages that far exceed in age than your English! Did you watch Passion of the Christ? Speaking in Aramiac and arabic it is clearly seen (subtitles) and heard that God was called Allah!

I wont refute much as Im going to hell any way according to you!

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Speaking for the "Consistent Christian" movement....we
catagoricaly denounce these statements made by the op. They do not represent nor reflect Christianity. Next thread please.

I speak just for me! As A Son of God! As part of His body!

The OP has stated fact, but im unsure of the use of scripture in the right context, but it could be!
A bit more humility would not go astray either, lol

I speak for Jesus, not for, umm, what was it? Oh yeah! "Consistent Christian movement"
You can denounce, but not for me thankyou!
My eyes and ears are staying open!

Born again.......

That is a lightning rod for secular and main stream Christians alike.

Born again to main streamers means, holy rollers, religious zealots that burn as hot as the sun and then poof....another crisis or they turn Buddist or something. Main streamers get offended because these "born agains" are quick to point out that they who have just "found" Jesus know more and are more connected to God than they are. Really pisses them off.
....needless to say, the secular people just find this people to be crazy and sometimes dangerous because they go an bother our government to make some law forcing the rest of us to sing with them.

I have experienced both, or at least I consider everytime I learn something more or get reconnected with God on a higher level of understanding to be a sort of.....born again feeling. Maybe "revitalized" is a better word. I understand the awesomeness of a "God" moment. But I have been spiritual all my life and when I saw Jesus Christ Superstar (when it came out in the theaters back in 1974 or something like that) I was 6 or 7 and that was another "born again" moment I suppose because I was on a mission for understanding from that point on....with numerous months here and there where I paid little attention to my spiritual life other than thanking God for stuff here and there.

So I don't believe you need to be "born again" some of us were "born" and in the faith since baptism. But there is also the "frozen chosen" those of us that were raised a Christian denomination but think about it as often as we think about being Americans.....we just are what we are and might even be able to give you a few tenets too of our religion. "yeah, man, I believe Jesus was....well....he died for our sins....and so I'm going to heaven....because I believe in him....and I don't think you are going....because you don't accept him....as your personal friend....or I mean savior guy."

So, nothing wrong with being "born again" but in my view it is more like....welcome to the party....glad you decided to join us.

I supose the almighty god has a phisical form since he created us at his image , right?

I have a rather complex question. (Complex due to the deep thought that needs to be put into before an answer, preferably.)

How could any one know they are the right one? With as many religions going around who is to say they are of the right path and what right does it give them to say others is on the wrong path?

You can not say that because some one is gay they will automatically go to hell. That is none other than Gods decision.

I left Christianity due to many reasons. One the bible was inconsistant. Two things did not add up, three I saw how my fellow Christians lived their lives (Committing sin, Drinking, sexing it up, etc and going home at night with the belief that if they do their prayer and ask for forgiveness than Jesus would wipe the slate clean and they can continue with their behavior the next day with the same belief that they can go to heaven just by prayer and forgiveness.) To easy for me. I am one who uses common sense, and common sense says that God did not create Hell just to make it to damn easy for us to go to heaven by mere begging. No offense to any one!

One of my favorite stores from the book of Hadeeth was of a non Muslim prostitute who was exiled (If memory serves she was an Israelite) and was walking in the desert, parched of thirst and sweating from the desert heat, she came across a small well, taking off her boot to lower it in to fetch some water she saw a half dying dog lying near the well, grabbing her boot she sacrificed her drink by giving it to the dog to replenish it. God (Allah) promised her a seat in heaven due to her sacrifice and good deed for what most humans would see as nothing but an animal, but she gave up her drink for.

The moral of the story is, That no one is to say who does and does not go to hell, Who does and does not go to Heaven, as only God bears the authority! In Islam we are not judged solely by our prayers and beliefs but we are weighed by our good and bad deeds. It is said a man can commit a life of bad deeds but there is one good deed that could save him!

Due unto others as you would do unto yourself, Do more good than harm and you will surely reap some benefits in the afterlife! Nuff said, Im getting to soft here blah!