Russian tanks 'rolling into Georgian breakaway'

reply to post by northwolf


How can you be sure that those are facts and not propaganda war? In Balkans news of ethnic cleansing took weeks/months/years to react.
Just to remind you, USSR announced that Finland shelled its forces in 1939, when they shelled them self their own troops. It is Russia now, but i am not that sure about change in methods.

Finnish media reported about these issues, information came from aid workers. Russia would do a false flag attack, but Georgian troops did in fact assault to South Ossetia.

It's true that, Ethnic Cleansing can't be verified, but ethnic ossets have been detained by advancing Georgians. And i think that the assault to autonomic region is enough to intervene. (Kosovo anyone)

reply to post by northwolf


Good on the Russians, the Georgians are nothing more than a US pawn in the game to encircle Russia. The Russians have every right to push the NATO away from its borders when it was promised peace in the late eighties only to find the US hell bent on stripping it of its near abroad.

Originally posted by northwolf
Finnish media reported about these issues, information came from aid workers. Russia would do a false flag attack, but Georgian troops did in fact assault to South Ossetia.

It's not as simple as that. Legally, S.Ossetia is part of Georgia. Whatever rebels want to break away can then be labeled as terrorists by Georgia and treated as such.

This is a shakeout from disintegration of the Empire. Sad, but kind of unavoidable. Ossetians live on both sides the border of Russia and Georgia and lean towards Russia.


[edit on 8-8-2008 by buddhasystem]

I'm really not sure what to make of this.

On the one hand, it seems a little hypocritical of Russia to support South Ossetia given their stance towards Chechnya and their opposition to Kosovan independence. I appreciate the circumstances aren't identical in those examples, but the fundamental issues are very similar.

On the other hand, if Russian intervention prevents a larger scale conflict then it may be a good thing. Ideally, a UN mandate should be sought however, with UN observers being sent to keep an eye on things.

Reply to:buddhasystem

It is but you would have agreed that western intervention would have been a good thing if Serbia would have invaded Kosovo after the independece declaration? So why is Ossets right for self determination less importans than Kosovoans?

[edit on 8-8-2008 by northwolf]

news.bbc.co.uk...

BBC News Story with Video on this

reply to post by djerwulfe


yeah, I'm not from Venezuela, but if I were I would be offended by this map...

Venezuela is not US ally...

Originally posted by northwolf
Reply to:buddhasystem

It is but you would have agreed that western intervention would have been a good thing if Serbia would have invaded Kosovo after the independece declaration? So why is Ossets right for self determination less importans than Kosovoans?

Sorry but I never supported Kosovo. It's a province of Serbia that had been infiltrated by Albanians who crossed the border.

I look at Ossetia frmo a different angle. As many have said, NATO is encroaching on Russia's borders with its expanding sphere of influence, and any Russian leader would be a fool to not to do something about it.

THIS PAGE ON PRAVDA THE RUSSIAN NEWS OUTLET HAS UP TO DATE PHOTOS OF THE CONFLICT;





english.pravda.ru...

Here is an interpretation of events from someone who has been following this conflict for quite some time. I will make it very brief.

There is basically an area between Russia and Georgia that these 2 countries have agreed to disagree on. This region is called Ossetia. I don't know how to really describe it but it's kind of like a separatist movement towards Russia from Georgia. Around 90% of the population in this area has Russian citizenship and most likely pro-Russian.

Conflict has ensued because Georgia in the last couple days has began invading this region to reclaim it as its own. Since Russia has the predominant support of the region and has interests here they are supporting this breakaway region's pushback of Georgian forces. Here is a video (www.liveleak.com...) that was posted in this thread www.abovetopsecret.com... This is not showing a fight between Russian and Georgian forces in reality. This is fighting between peacekeeping forces in the region and Georgian forces. Russia is simply moving to support the peacekeeping forces already in place.

Lots of propaganda is being thrown around on both sides:
-Genocide by Georgian forces (of course a possibility as they are being forced out of the region)
-Russia attacking Georgia territory with aircraft (also possible as a way to hinder reinforcements)
-Russian planes being shot down (another possibility)

PLEASE don't pay attention to the propaganda.

What do I think is happening? At most I think Russia may be hitting Georgian reinforcements to the main areas of conflict and sending support troops to aid the breakaway region.

Who is at fault? In all reality it kind of points to Georgia for stirring the pot. This region has seen some conflict as of late but this major push by Georgian forces into a predominately pro-Russian area is a bold move.

What do I think will come of this? Nothing long lasting. I think both sides will agree to a ceasefire and things will continue as they have been in the last couple of years.

Yeah, here we have S. Osetia wanting to break away from Georgia and join the Russian Federation. There are other areas other than S. Osetia who want to join the RF as well, but they haven't been attacked by the Georgian forces. Hence, they are sending men and arms to S. Osetia.

Georgia being pro NATO officially is probably doing this because they don't want to lose their standing with NATO. If these pro RF areas gain enough support, then the pro NATO politicians in Georgia have to admit defeat and sign the country over to RF.

Russia doesn't exactly like the fact that an organized military is trying to roll over a pro Russian province, and is doing the obvious thing, reinforcing them.


Here's what I see as possible events...
1. Russia fortifies these provinces, and the provinces fall under new ownership.
2. Other additional provinces take the rebels side, the country falls under new ownership.
3. NATO gets involved... that would be a HUGE mistake.
4. Georgia acknowledges S. Osetia's desire to separate.


And yeah, whoever posted that map earlier... that is horribly out of date.

Has anybody noticed that Georgia is using multiple launch rocket systems in Ossetia? If you know the area at all (I do), you would conclude that likely targets are towns/villages etc. In the mountains, there can't be significant staging areas outside of population centers.

So basically Georgia is wiping out Ossetians. How nice.

reply to post by buddhasystem


You may be correct.

Or they might be using cluster mines to hinder the Russian support convoy heading to the capital...?

Originally posted by northwolf
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

You may be correct.

Or they might be using cluster mines to hinder the Russian support convoy heading to the capital...?

As I can see on Russian news sites, Tskhinval is largely destroyed. Looks to me Georgians did it. Women and children largely evacuated to N.Ossetia before that happened, thank God.

Yes, Georgians preceded their attack with hours of rocket fire.
They also attacked Russian peacekeeppers that suffered 10 casualities. So i think Russians have right to retaliate.


Personally it's a win win situation for me, Georgians have acted as agressors and deserve a spanking. And every dead Russian is one less to invade my country. But really UN should sanction Georgia for attacking civilians and peacekeeppers.

Originally posted by northwolf
And every dead Russian is one less to invade my country.

Sorry but I ain't going to hang myself to make you feel better, my Suomi friend. I'm quite perplexed that you are worried about Russian agression against your country, by the way. Borders were settled a while ago, with lots of blood, and appear stable.

But really UN should sanction Georgia for attacking civilians and peacekeeppers.

I agree. They started it.

Oh wow. Georgia firing on civilians, this is a twist.

And Georgia is a US ally... which makes this a tough decision for the US as well... or at least so I thought, until I read this...

The Baku-Supsa Pipeline runs between Azerbaijan and Turkey through Georgia and is a key provider of energy for the EU and the United States.

Unofficial separatist sources have claimed that if the conflict was protracted they would be prepared to sabotage the pipeline and that would have huge ramifications.

... oh...

Methinks NATO might end up in this mess after all.

As for the recent reports of 2 Russian jets being shot down, those reports are unconfirmed.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by johnsky]

Originally posted by Rentor

The RUSSIANS stole the Chinese spotlight for the day

Just as the open ceremony is about to kick off, the russians decide to steal the thunder and invade Georgia. Ya godda love it.

Hey... Remember when someone asked what was gonna happen on 08/08/08?

Russia started a war!

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by Rentor

The RUSSIANS stole the Chinese spotlight for the day

Just as the open ceremony is about to kick off, the russians decide to steal the thunder and invade Georgia. Ya godda love it.

Hey... Remember when someone asked what was gonna happen on 08/08/08?

Russia started a war!

Available facts are that Georgia started an attack on Tskhinval. South Ossetians asked Russians to help out and it took HOURS before that decision was made. So you got it wrong.