Russian tanks 'rolling into Georgian breakaway'

I could give a rats arse about the Olympics. There are more important things in the world that needs peoples attentions. This is one of them.

Originally posted by northwolf
Few facts straight:
1)GEORGIA attacked and autonomous region
2)Reports started to flow that they were doing an ethnic cleansing of Russians and Ossets in the region
3)Russia intervened

fact, that civil war you seem to be referring to was OVER in 2007 and this is pure propoganda. they are going to use the lame excuse of protecting russians in both georgia and ukraine. not true.

fact, the russians shot down a georgian drone about six months ago.

fact, your "facts" don't appear to be. i don't know what news you are listening to or watching but it is clearly slanted to the russian side.

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by northwolf

 

Good on the Russians, the Georgians are nothing more than a US pawn in the game to encircle Russia. The Russians have every right to push the NATO away from its borders when it was promised peace in the late eighties only to find the US hell bent on stripping it of its near abroad.

are you freaking kidding me? for decades all these countries wanted was their sovereignty back and now you don't recognize this for what it is (a part of the imperialistic control by BOTH the u.s. and russia over the pipelines to china and india) and want them gobbled up again and claim the u.s. is the only boogeyman here? get a grip.

Spoke to my Russian friend.
Apparently there is nothing out of the ordinary with this.
They do this on a routine basis and kill the *snip* out of each other.
Its nothing unusual.
Stop reporting it as Breaking Alternative News.
Because it is not.




Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 8/8/2008 by JacKatMtn]

Originally posted by northwolf
Yes, Georgians preceded their attack with hours of rocket fire.
They also attacked Russian peacekeeppers that suffered 10 casualities. So i think Russians have right to retaliate.


Personally it's a win win situation for me, Georgians have acted as agressors and deserve a spanking. And every dead Russian is one less to invade my country. But really UN should sanction Georgia for attacking civilians and peacekeeppers.

excuse me, but those migs invaded georgian airspace. where are you getting your information, which is so biased as to be very scary. mine is coming from overseas radio in ukraine and russia, which our family listens to in their own languages, and it is fairly clear what the propoganda and what is real. but you know what? the ignorance being shown in this particular topic is overwhelming me, so i won't be back.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


The "civil war" was never over, Georgia has tried to force both Abkhazia and South Ossetia to stay as a part of Georgia. Both of these regions have been de-facto independent of the Tbilisi government for a decade. Both regions want independence without conditions. Georgia refuses to let go. Fighting, sabbre rattling and sabotages have been frequent (by both sides).

Last night minor fighting broke again, Georgia retaliated with an rocket barrage to both separatist positions and civilian targets. At morning Tbilisi mobilised the entire Georgian army including reserves and Declared that is it will invade South Ossetia and drive separatists away.

What part of this is a lie or propaganda?

ps. Russian Migs were shot down AFTER Georgians had attacked.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by northwolf]

I would like to clear something up here:

South Ossetia is NOT a "Breakaway Republic", it used to be an autonomous Oblast prior to 1991.

It declared independence when the Soviet Union dissolved and has been autonomously run ever since, the Georgians had have no influence over them whatsoever.

Just because NATO, the UN and the West don't give them full diplomatic recognition doesn't mean they're not independent. They are.
Southern Ossetians have been living in an independent entity for 17 years now.

The Georgians are making a grave mistake here drawing Russia into this inter-ethnic conflict.
The Russians see the Caucasus as cesspool of nationalistic tendencies just waiting to erupt and break off more pieces off Russia with them.
And they sure as hell don't want another Chechnya.

Georgia made a serious mistake opening fire on the Russians.
Their stirring up a hornet's nest here.

While I do agree the Ossetians did provoke this recent conflict, the Georgians opened fire on the Russians first.
All their claims of Russian aircraft violating airspace and bombing civilians haven't been confirmed by anyone than themselves, their just spreading bullsh*t, they want to gain another few inches of territory in that tiny state.

The Russians have every right to defend themselves and their Republics.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


agreed , and it would be sheer luck , if Russia tanks do not start moving into Georgia to neutralise the mad Georgian leader Sakashillvilli

Originally posted by djerwulfe
I've found by frequenting ATS that a large proprtion of the English-speaking world can't really remember anything before September 11, 2001. Many people seem to believe that their borders, markets and societies are maintained by magic or through some inalienable "right" to have a nation or region to call home.

They seem neither to recall their own past, other's past and seem oblivious to the actual current geopolitical climate.

Cries of "illegal war" and questions/accusations about the purpose of the War on Terror and our current military operations in the ME demonstrate this collective abnesia, myopicism and plain ignorance.

So let me make a couple points: One, the US presidential administration basically only has the power to stall or postpone addressing issues and situations. Any President who has to take the Nation into war is reviled at the time. But wars aren't fought without tangible purposes that are or should be of interest to every citizen of the participating Nation.

Please examine this:

Notice anything? That's right. There's a fairly distinct "Bi-partisan" global division across the planet. And most of the current conflict Hot Spots are right along the borders where the two meet.

Is this getting any clearer?

If not, well, then you're probably too stupid to produce any meaningful contributions to your own immediate community and consequently have no real say in these matters anyway. Go play some video games or go golfing and let the rest of us handle this.

The map is wrong Poland is not an ally of Russia.

Can't possibly see what the Georgians hope to achieve by disrupting the current status quo and taking potshots at Russians in this region.

They cannot hope gain any longterm military advantage here unless they play Hezbollah-Lebanon-06 style.

So either they've gone off the rockers or :

1) They've been promised overt support by the US/NATO for S. Ossettia.
2) They're trying to do a quick separatist cleanse and then try and hold on to that area while they cry invasion at the UN etc..

Ironically, its best for all if they've gone of the rockers..

Ossetia isn't a real country. It'd be like if the English were backing a Texan grab for independence.
Who recognizes Ossetia? Do they have an Olympic team?
I think maybe it's just a Russian outpost in disguise.

The English-speaking world doesn't seem to recognize those breakaway territories as anything other than Georgian rebels. Criminals, if you will, with backing from a bitter and posessive Russia.

Here's an article that sums up my views on it.
www.telegraph.co.uk...

And the term "ethnic cleansing" gets used too liberally these days. I think you could argue that any military action is "Ethnic Cleansing." I mean, one group of armed people are trying to kill another because of their identities

[edit on 8-8-2008 by djerwulfe]

Originally posted by djerwulfe
Ossetia isn't a real country. It'd be like if the English were backing a Texan grab for independence.
Who recognizes Ossetia? Do they have an Olympic team?
I think maybe it's just a Russian outpost in disguise.

Wrong. Ossetians speak a language very remotely similar to persian (not Russian or Georgian), they have a very distinct ethnic built and have been there for a very long time.

I've been in Ossetia -- a beautiful country, by the way.

Originally posted by djerwulfe


Please examine this:

Not to mention other countries like Cuba is excluded from the Soviet alliance. Such discrimination!!!

Georgia will pay for targeting civilians.. Russia will make sure of that.
And shame on the U.S. to actually condone such actions.

Funny how many brain-washed russians pop up around these topics. Initially I thought they have been sent as disinfo agents but I have come to realize it is much more ingenious... The inside-Russia propaganda is so strong that most of its citizens can be counted as disinfo agents...

All I ask of people who read this thread - do not take everything you read as fact.. Just do some research yourself also and you will see who is telling the truth and who not.

Propaganda is used by both sides in any conflict. It's been this way for a very long time. Read some of the old newspaper accounts from the US Civil War era.

Both sides will put their spin on the what and the why of this, and the truth will lie somewhere in the middle, stomped into mush by the boots of both belligerents.

Edit to add: In war, truth is the first casualty.
Aeschylus
Greek tragic dramatist (525 BC - 456 BC)

So when I say it's been this way for a very long time, I do mean a long time.



[edit on 8-8-2008 by NGC2736]

Don't kid yourself, this is a direct response to Georgia's attempt to join NATO.

The Russians have signaled their willingness to go to war to keep NATO away from their borders.

The shelling of residential areas in Tskhinvali and the stream of refugees crossing their border just gives them a handy excuse to make their point.

Let’s see now…. The USA-NATO has been courting Georgia for some time, and seems to have finally gotten them in cahoots. Georgia just happens to be the biggest geographic obstacle along Russia’s natural path into Iran. The USA is sending a huge armada into the Persian Gulf to increase their already formidable presence there. Get your popcorn ready!

Originally posted by Dronetek
Large firefights breaking out:

www.liveleak.com...

Wow...

This isn't some diplomantic disagrement...

FRG?
GDR?
Never heard of it!
We called it BRD and DDR now its Deutschland (Germany)
Dude on which planet are you living, the map is over twenty years old!
There is no West and East Germany anymore.
You missed some U.S allies...and so on...
By the way, the chech republic and Slovakia are now splited, the map is really outdated, and Cuba is not comunistic, they are different and allied to russia.
Next time use a up-to-date map, to show something.
Maybe you're not well educated.