Obama suggests reparations to blacks, Native Americans

reply to post by aLinkToThePast


What I am trying to say here, is that what matters, is not tangible reparations, but something much more valuable. For example, we started last week when the House Apologized for Slavery

And as the lady in this article says

It is only when "one side" or "the other" gives in that real discussion and dialogue can happen, which results in healing. The person wronged doesn't forget the incident which caused a breakdown, but at least he or she can let go of some of the angst, anxiety and anger once he or she sees that the "other side" acknowledges that a wrong has been done.

There are some people for whom an apology will make no difference, but for the vast majority, an honest and intentional apology goes a long way.

"That's just my point," said my friend. "The apology isn't honest. It's intentional because the man is trying to get reelected. This apology means nothing to me."

Well, it does to me. It's a first step. America has seemed too ready to just ignore the cries of the people who built this country. There have been too many instances of cruelty and fundamental injustice, just like Cohen's bill says. There was no reason for it, other than arrogance and economic greed.

Surely you can see her point.

How dare he! That Obama! Doesnt he know we destroyed and raped and tortured and murdered for the good of America? Ever hear of manifest destiny? Well, what is happening now with the Hispanics is an invasion, not manifest destiny...when we did it we had every right. Important note: we reserve the right to trample anyone we please, "and if they can't do that, they can shut up" (Falafel Boy, Fox Noise Channel).

Well Mr Obama bin sadden
has quite the agenda for you in America
Oh yes reparations for the blacks and natives at the expense of the middle class
HE plans to lower the middle class to that of Blacks in NEW Orleans

thats the reparations he has for you
the natives will be raised to that of the Hispanic illegals

Obama Bid Sadden hes got it all planned !

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reply to post by maria_stardust


Thanks again Mods for bringing sanity to this board.

reply to post by eric52081


I believe what is MOST IMPORTANT to say here is that every black man, woman and child, born on US soil after the US Civil War, is a FREE PERSON regardless of their ancestry. In order for us and them to move forward from the negative nature of the past, they must quit calling themselves blacks or African-Americans. They are AMERICANS and until they and we start declaring that openly, there will always be a division by the color our skin. The time has come set aside the prejudices of the past. We won't ever forget them as they will remain an important part of our history, but they should now be put to rest, to slumber with the rest of our history.

Throwing money at them now would in my opinion be an insult to them. They want EQUALITY and its time WE start giving them EQUALITY. The same can be said for the ORIGINAL OWNERS of this land, the American Indians. Their original tribal lands should be seeded and deeded back to them. We should move out of their tribal lands as WE invaded their space and their territories. There is more than enough room for us all to live in peace with one another.

If WE don't start making peace now, WE will never attain it for ourselves and for generations to come after us.

exactly all this talk about reperations just further seperates blacks and whites raceism exist because we choose to accept it weather you call it the kkk or the naacp if we keep seperating each other there will never be peace and harmony

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
Its funny how we mention reperations for blacks we tend to discredit the idea and by the end of the conversation we end up talking about other races. First and foremost I would like to state, No other enslavement of anyknid can even compare to the torture African-Americans faced. You cant tell me all these stories of different cultures and they still dont add up together maybe the mayans and incans. As a matter of fact, all of these cultures can tell you things of there past, they know their language, ancestory, tribal lineage. Africans were not even allowed to speak or write, and they couldnt learn Engish.

Slavery is not something that only early blacks in America faced. This, in my opinion, is why the slavery of other races is usually brought up in the discussion. Perhaps it is just me, but I do not see the horrors black slaves faced as being any worse than those other races have faced. Throughout history, slaves have been bought and sold, treated as property, beaten, whipped, starved, separated from their families, etc. No one race has been subjected to worse treatment than another. They have all faced the same horrors.

I do not recall any accounts of slaves never learning to speak english. I do recall, however, reading accounts of slaves learning to write it. I would assume that if you can write it you can say it, or at least know what the symbols you are writing mean. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
and you wouldnt be paying for, just like I myself didnt vote for war on Iraq, these are things the system are responsible for. Obama never said one group of people are responsible, and never said "whites" or anything like that. America is responsible, your tax money and your life wouldnt be effected in anykind of way. They (the machine) throw away money and literally burn money. Build Iraq with billions of your money or heal Americas wounds with The system or the Governments money. So...

Where exactly would the system come up with the money if not from taxpayer dollars? It makes no sense to say that our tax money wouldn't be affected when that is where the system gets its money to pay for wars, public programs, government funding, grants for college students, etc. Where are they going to get the money to pay for anything without using tax dollars?

Originally posted by Evisscerator
I believe what is MOST IMPORTANT to say here is that every black man, woman and child, born on US soil after the US Civil War, is a FREE PERSON regardless of their ancestry. In order for us and them to move forward from the negative nature of the past, they must quit calling themselves blacks or African-Americans. They are AMERICANS and until they and we start declaring that openly, there will always be a division by the color our skin. The time has come set aside the prejudices of the past. We won't ever forget them as they will remain an important part of our history, but they should now be put to rest, to slumber with the rest of our history.

I could not agree more. I have never understood why anyone would call themselves African-American when they were not born in Africa. If you are born on US soil you are an American, period.

You would think that being born free and not born as slaves would mean something. Slavery has been abolished, and rightly so. I think it's about time to let the past go and try to move on. How many future generations are going to have to pay for the mistakes of our ancestors before we decide enough is enough? I could understand the anger and demands for reperations if those who were slaves were still alive, but they are not and haven't been for a long time. It's time to let go of the past.

Originally posted by Jenna

Slavery is not something that only early blacks in America faced. This, in my opinion, is why the slavery of other races is usually brought up in the discussion. Perhaps it is just me, but I do not see the horrors black slaves faced as being any worse than those other races have faced.

Don't you think America has a responsibility for its part though? Or is it ok, because lots of others did it too?

I think that the time for 40 acres and a mule is long past. We have taken strides to make amends for the mistakes of the past, but when is enough enough? How much needs to be given to those who may or may not be the descendants of slaves before they are happy? Like I said, how many future generations will have to pay for things that they did not do and that no one alive has personally experienced?

I fail to see the link between an ancestor who MAY have been a slave, and someones current status in life. They are generations removed from each other. As I have said in other threads, if you do nothing but sit on your butt all day and don't even try to improve your life I don't think you deserve a handout regardless of your skin color. And if you have never been a slave, you don't deserve any reparations either.

I have ancestors who came over from Ireland and who may have been slaves, but that has no bearing on my life today. I never knew them, obviously, and what they may have went through while horrible does not affect my life in any tangible way. Anything I have I earned, and what I don't have I haven't earned. Should I ask for reparations because I might have ancestors who were slaves? I don't think so.

I see no problems with improving communities and schools. I'm all for that. But as for land, cash, etc. for something that no one alive experienced, I don't think so. Which is why I feel it is silly for any one in this country to demand reparations for something they didn't experience and it's silly to hold an entire race of people accountable for something they didn't do. We need to stop looking at skin color and focusing on something that none of us had any control over, and start trying to find ways to get past our differences without blaming each other for our problems.

Perhaps Obama will bring Americans together ,it may be, that his plan of reparations will trigger some kind of coming together.
I doubt that can happen in America myself but who am I but nobody.

First of all, all schools should be top notch period across the board. We have poured lots of money to improve schools and communities and have gotten minimal returns on our investments. We have to find out what the problems are and address the issues that inhibit schools and communities from thriving. Just throwing money into schools and communities will not resolving the underlying issues such as poverty, drugs, parenting issues, lack of jobs and other issues along that line.

I also feel many minority communities are correct when they say government has forgotten them. The only time the government pays attention to their issues is during an election. Once the election is over they are mostly forgotten.

As far as reparation or apology, you are us to do answer for sins that our ancestors committed. Ancestors that i don't even know. I equate it to my father killing somebody and dying before the trial. Is it my responsibility to take his place in the trial, get sentence to life for something that I had nothing to do with. I can't pay or answer for his mistakes. He did the killing and unfortunately died before he could pay for his injustice. Ultimately he can answer to God for the injustices he did while he was alive on this Earth, just like I will have to answer for the things I have done wrong also.

Again I ask those who want reparations:
Are you glad that your ancestors came to America?
Would you rather they had stayed in Africa?
Where would you be better off?
Were you ever a slave?

My ancestors came to this country in 1895. Lived in Chicago. Never owned slaves.
Should I have to pay these reparations"?

What do you think of the idea of collecting from the descendants of those in Africa who sold your ancestors to the slave traders?

What shouild the white folk have done when the slave ships arrived?
Should they put these people to work to earn their keep or what?
Do you agree that there are plenty in the black communoity right now that shoud be working to earn their keep?

Don't you think that their wellfare checks are reparation enough?

Polish people being called pollacks ,Italians being called wops.,getting your arse kicked a few times thats nothing !

The blacks were hung in the streets when the whites needed something to do.

the natives experienced genocide

My family dates back 400+ years in North America I'm White
your a new comer by my standard if your family has been here less than 100 years.

Not only is it morally wrong not to have given the reparations it was probably unlawful as well.

America has always tried to relinquish its obligations towards a settling of accounts .

I say bring out all of the treaties and all of the promises
lay it on the table and work out a fair an equitable settlement to the Natives
and the blacks
Then may be you can get on with your lives as 1 nation
the way things are going you will one day be in the NAU these matters have to be cleared up before that happens.

reply to post by thecandyman


Your arguments Do not hold water

the system of definitions came about by the words used in treaties

if they deeded land to blacks then it meant to the blacks they had ownership of the land

after treaties and decrees are made then comes the law definitions to make them all null and void.Or to change the intent.
that they are excepted today as those definitions does not make the treaties apply to these modern definitions.
the definitions that were accepted at the time of the treaty is the intent of the law.and as such your whole case is void.
This was common practice back then.
another tactic was to rent land off of the Natives the Church did this.
they would rent the land and over the years they paid their rent until all
ownership was transfered to the church then the rents stopped .
Literally stolen lands are what live on today.
Another tactic the American govt used was the go west young man Campaign.
offering all manner of land entitlements as incentives for people to go west.
they left in huge wagon trains for the promised lands.
only one hitch it wasn't American land it was Native lands.The Natives fought back and the settlers called them savages thats because they didn't know it was Native land and not theirs as was promised by yanky
When more land was needed they organized buffalo hunts for hides and rotting flesh of the buffalo's carcass as far as the eyes could see.
this was organized to starve the Indians off of the land
and always when the Natives fought for their rights the long hairs came to exact American justice.
This is known as the Indian wars era of your history ,it would be more appropriate to call the theft of a nation era.
all of the treaties broken to this very day.
the final solution imposed on the North American Indian was to be herded into reservations like a cattle drive ,the more that died en route the better.
your definitions are not worth a the paper they are written on because the are the very lies they used to void all the treaties and decrees
promise everything and have a scribe void it all the next day.
on the road to bring your nation together start with the truth it might make for a better new beginning .






[edit on 3-8-2008 by solo1]

Originally posted by solo1
reply to post by thecandyman

 

Your arguments Do not hold water

the system of definitions came about by the words used in treaties

if they deeded land to blacks then it meant to the blacks they had ownership of the land

after treaties and decrees are made then comes the law definitions to make them all null and void.Or to change the intent.
that they are excepted today as those definitions does not make the treaties apply to these modern definitions.
the definitions that were accepted at the time of the treaty is the intent of the law.and as such your whole case is void

*Insult editted out*
I was definitely defending that the slaves were promised deeded land as reparation. As usual, you took what you wanted out of context to make it suit you. The argument was that Deed and Reparation have nothing in common and that they didn't belong together. I was showing that they do in fact go together just that you would have to use the correct meaning of the term DEED. I never once said that they were actually given the deed to property. They weren't. They were promised it but never got it. Don't try to play games with what I say
*Insult Editted out*.
And you need to learn more about the history of what the Immigrants went through when they came into this country also (not just being called names and a little school yard fight). And who the heck are you to call an Italian a WOP?? Nobody. Of course you don't get a warning about using that because it is acceptable language from a White and a White mod isn't going to do anything about that. I get a warning and snipped just for giving a definition of the word guinea. Must be nice to be white.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by thecandyman]

Mod Edit: Theres no need to make you point with any insults. They merely distract from the point you wish to make.

Cheers,
ALIEN



[edit on 4-8-2008 by alien]

And i am saying the laws do not Apply today as they did back then
You can jump up and down all you want call me names but the truth of the matter is
the laws of today are void when applying them to old treaties.
you need to go back to the meanings of the words not from blacks dictionary
but what ever was used at the time of the treaties.

And again what immigrants went through may have been harsh but compared to blacks and especially the Natives it was a trifle. less than a trifle
I don't condone what the Americans did to the immigrants Americans ignorant society what can I say .





[edit on 3-8-2008 by solo1]

I am retiring from this post. The money would come from the same place they get to pay a couple billions per plane. And fly squadrons in, where does the money come from. I dont have time to argue about people who say that early 90's "welfare" this and that crap. You should realize that welfare are for the people who refuse to get a job not the people who cant get one because some people think like you guys. Very old.
In response to the "I dont know why they would call themselves African". You have never left outside of the box. Pick up W.E.B. Du Bois and learn a thing or two. Every person of color doesnt refer to themselves as African-American, some Afro-American, some black. Read a book and see its all different like White, European, Anglo-saxon. They are relavant to each other but they describe different aspects of a kind of being. Im sick of trying to expose you to real knowledge. You have so much hatred in your heart and claim not to be racist. You just go off of statistics when all elements arent included because the "analyzers"arent aware of all the facts. Every last one of your post in racist and you justify it with ignorant, insolent replies.
Karma is everything. We will understand one day that Blacks were first to experience and recognize the enslavement of the 'human culture'. The only thing that will compare is the 'Machine Revolution'. It will be identical in fact it if one in the same, African-Americans never say White anything, Dr. King never said white anything he simply said 'injustice'. I dont know if u become guilty, or what,something on a psychological level is happening. Maybe its in your DNA It triggers something that makes everyone hate even if we have apparent knowledge on the subject whatsoever. In order to move foward we have to be able put or past in the past. That doenst mean rewrite the History and say Africas kings sold them. That is totally incorrect. It was part of a deal where all parties were equal, and everyone contributed equal amounts of effort for equality for everyone.
You guys should read real books, not these kiddie-buttered-up versions of history. I bet you believe in blue-blood crap. Your mind is so close. everone was pure in that day, it was because of lack of oxygen due to the height of the civilization ,Ancient Tibet, (remnants of the highest known country known to man now) which do not descend to German people or Any Anglo-Sapien for that matter. They just raped and moved on... Pillaged, and targeted all the sacred places with all the 'Nice Tablets'. And they give us the first examples of Rocketry, Electro-Magnetism used with flight, the identical so called 'foo fighter' from the ancient scripture. Karma Is On Its Way. Raping and desecrating in the name of riteousness is foul.
We degraded and devalued the natives for their understanding on 'Nature'. People destroy thier laws replace them then screw nature up.
I just had to bust your racist bubble.
Peace ,One Love and Karma will repay everyone who is really owed.
sorry for typos

"were you ever a slave?"
We are both slaves you just dont know it yet.