Aluminum Zirconium Tetrachlorohydrex And You!

I see the anon poster a few pages back beat me to it, but if you want to stop stinking then you need to either kill or control the bacteria on your skin.

Run yourself up a bath and put a cup of Apple Cider Vinegar (or white vinegar I guess wouldn't matter) in it. Add a spoon of Coconut oil to it as well. You could do this every day, or every few days, or only once a week, depending on your particular situation.


For the poster that had a doctor say "They wouldn't sell it if it wasn't safe", ask him why they sell cigarettes and alcohol then? Ask him why they sell stuff with trans-fats, etc.

You think that is bad try the fact that you regularly ingest sodium hydroxide everyday and on top of that you also maybe applying it to your skin and hair. Look up sodium hydroxide poisoning! Have fun Kids!

Biochemist

The teflon stuff:
I found a link to a supposed MSDS for Teflon FEP which i couldn't validate for sure as it looks second hand and isnt from the dupont site - that one's here.

The DuPont website itself only seems to have one hazard sheet easily found, which i can't link you to because you use a search 'mediator' - just search for teflon at their mediator page to find the pdf. (I only tried in UK English - you may get different results for other languages or countries).

You can find some other material MSDSs with creative searching - but strangely nothing resembling teflon that i could find on there has "Hazards" besides "No hazards to be specifically mentioned", despite the unofficial sheet describing thermal decomposition into nasty stuff at about 400 degrees C. (Oh, except "polymer fume fever" - which is described in an official toxicology section)


Oh, and to the poster with the list of scenarios - i'd have to agree that number 3 is the way to go, with our current incompetence at judging chemical side effects on such a complex system as the body.

reply to post by IMAdamnALIEN


Great post. You are doing a great service to humanity by researching and supplying this information. There should be more important threads like this. Try and stop poison getting into the body. Best Wishes.

are there any alternative anti-persperants that do not contain aluminum?

My generic anti-perseperant, made by Melaleuca Inc, has 17.8% aluminum in it. Guess what they used for the "brand name" on the front of the deoderant stick?

... ALLOY ..

And I *just* now get it! Rofl!

rub some aluminum alloy onto my pits and hit the road!

oh yeh, what about using anti-persperant on your testicles? will this cause accelerated testicular cancer? I'm not being silly, I'm serious. because, I find that a few swipes of the good ole deoderant stick down thar' in your inner thigh / groin region can REALLY keep things smelling fresh well into an all day, out door type of date or event .. lol ..

Great Thread!

I really think this issue is getting out of the fringes and into the mainstream.

Two nights ago I saw a range of crystal deo at my supermarket. I have no idea how long they've stocked it because it's been ages since I actually looked in that section (I usually buy that kind of thing at a health shop).

There are also brands that sell the crystal dissolved as a roll-on or a spray, some I've seen have essential oils added for a nice lady-smell.

I think the best part about having a range of natural products is causes people to question the ingredients in the mainstream products.

Once some one has cottoned on to one product-conspiracy, it usually isn't long before they're ripping through the bathroom cabinets realising what they're really doing to their bodies.

First off - it amazes me to no end how easy it is to scare everyone. Just because you read something on the internet on some random message board, does not make the information true. PLEASE people, do your own research. God only knows you cannot just take anything you hear as truth. It should really be a rule that if state that something is a fact, you must have a reliable source to back it up.

That being said....

Anti-perspirant does happen to include Al, but, as said before, so does many foods. In fact, "In general, approximately 95% of the normal daily intake of aluminum for an adult comes from food" [1]. Thus, discontinuing use of anti-prespirants will probably not have a significant effect. Moreover, the EPA claims that the maximum allowable level for Al in drinking water is 0.05 to 0.2 mg/L [2]. Finally, Aluminum Hydroxide is prescribed for several things, including heartburn, peptic ulcers, and other stomach ailments [3]. It seems Al is present in many other things than anti-perspirants. Not to mention the fact that the Al ion has a very difficult time penetrating the skin due to low solubility at the pH found around the skin [4].

In regards to the health effects of Al, let me preface by echoing what my old biochemistry professor drilled into my brain. CORRELATION does NOT prove CAUSATION. In other words, just because two things are linked does NOT mean that one caused the other.

"No reliable information is available regarding the normal body content of Al 3+ in humans" [4]. This statement should underline the fact that we still are not able to accurately establish links between Al and illnesses. In addition to that, an Oxford study that gave rats up to 500mg/l in their drinking water found that absolutely none of it was absorbed in the brain [5]. Not to mention the OP's claim that Al intake increases the chance of Alzheimer's by 60%. The Alzheimer's Association itself says that this is a myth [6]. PLEASE do some research before you post things, OP!!

I think the point I'm trying to make is that everything is still up in the air. Al very well may be the cause of several problems, but the thing is that WE DON'T REALLY KNOW. Thus, there is no sense getting paranoid about it, which it seems like many of you are.

It's starting to feel like I'm writing a research paper here, so I'll stop. But PLEASE, for the sake of our community, everyone do some research before you get scared about something. It's absurd.


If you'll notice, as well, all of these sources are reputable. Please make sure you are using reputable sources as well.

[1] www.hc-sc.gc.ca...
[2] www.epa.gov...
[3] www.nlm.nih.gov...
[4] www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...
[5] toxsci.oxfordjournals.org...
[6] www.alz.org...

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Your the first one!

Congratulate yourself!

First off let me tell you I did do research on this subject! And they arent my claims, they are a researchers claims! And for you to dismiss all of the personal testimony in this thread only proves to me you didn't read any of it! If you did, you would realize that I am not the only one trying to warn people about this! Doctors, biochemists, chemists, ect. But they probably don't know anything, right?

Thanks for being the first, we needed at least one in this thread!

-star for you


[edit on 23-7-2008 by IMAdamnALIEN]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


A lot of what you say sounds like common sense. However I found it a little ironic that while you pound the OP & other contributors for jumping to conclusions on the back of questionable sources, the first four out of your choice of six are government websites. The irony meter jumps up a few more notches when you speak out in terms of 'our community' as

a) you don't appear to have picked up the degree to which government sources are viewed with skepticism on this board

and

b) as an anonymous poster you've chosen to remain somewhat on the periphery of ATS.

That leaves us with one research paper and a FAQ from the Alzheimer's Association which only refers specifically to the impact of aluminium on that particular disease (whereas a number of possible impacts on health have been discussed, with an unknown number of other possible effects which may as yet come to light).

I certainly don't mean to belittle your contribution. I do, however, think you've come down on other posters on the heavy side.

Bear in mind: part of the whole point of ATS is that we try to dig beneath the skin of official sources (without ignoring them, of course,) reading between the lines, taking note of what has not been looked into, what has been overlooked - or even downright suppressed.

reply to post by pause4thought


That was beautifully executed!

What a wonderful grouping of words!

I was thinking what you typed out, but couldn't type out what I was thinking, ya know?

Well done!


Oh and all these people are wrong too:

www.rense.com...

Krishnan, S. Aluminum toxicity to the brain. Sci Total Environ 71:59, 1988

Bertholf, R. Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease: prospectives for a cytoskeletal mechanism. CRC-Crit Rev Clin Lab Sci 25:195, 1987

Candy, J. Aluminosilicates and senile plaque formation in Alzheimer's disease. Lancet 1:354, 1986

Perl, D. Aluminum neurotoxicity--potential role in the pathogenesis of neurofibrillary tangle formation. Can J Neurol Sci 13(4 suppl):441, 1986

Edwardson, J. Aluminosilicates and the ageing brain: implications for the pathogesesis of Alzheimer's disease. Ciba Found Symp 121:160, 1986

Martyn, C. Geographical relationship between Alzheimer's disease and aluminum in drinking water. Lancet 1:59, 1989

Birchall, J. Aluminum, chemical physiology, and Alzheimer's disease. Lancet 2:1008, 1988

Shore, D. Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease. J Nervous and Mental Disease 171:553, 1983

Perl, D. Uptake of aluminum into the central nervous system along nasal-olfactory pathways (letter). Lancet 1:1028, 1987

Cowburn, J. Aluminum chelator (transferrin) reverses biochemical deficiency in Alzheimer brain preparations (letter). Lancet 1:99, 1989

Greger, J. Aluminum content of the American diet. Food Technol 39:73, 1985

McLachlan D. Intramuscular desferioxamine in patients with Alzheimer's disease. Lancet 337:1304, 1991.

Increase in incidence of Alzheimer's disease. JAMA 265:313, 1991.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by IMAdamnALIEN]

reply to post by IMAdamnALIEN


Maybe industries use Aluminum a whole lot because it is a very plentiful, cheap, and useful metal?

reply to post by where


Same goes for enriched uranium!



Except for the cheap and abundant part! lol

[edit on 23-7-2008 by IMAdamnALIEN]

reply to post by ScriptKiddie


You did say this made your birds die, correct?

I would say its pretty friggin deadly!

Well, I decided to make the effort and register an account, as you can only reply anonymously once every twelve hours. So, congrats! ATS has a new member.

You made a good point about not trusting government websites, and I'll admit, I did not consider this much when I posted. Being in academia, my first reaction is always to browse pubmed and other related journals for information. That being said, the Oxford, PubMed, and Medline articles are all contributed by scientists and MDs, and reviewed by several of their peers. This information is not being fed to us straight from the government, but is actual, credible, scientific information. Data gained from these sites, I feel, is reliable.

Let me say this - I'm not here to try to argue against everyone's personal accounts. Obviously science cannot record every experience anyone has had, and personal accounts on subjects are undoubtedly important in determining truths. I'm just trying to present the scientific perspective on this subject. While there is no question in my mind that the government has lied to us about many, many things, science still has a place in arguments, and cannot be completely ignored. I'm sorry if I sounded bashful in my anonymous post, I just feel very strongly about these things. People should learn all there is to know about a topic, even if you do not completely trust the scientific community.

reply to post by iamnotacrook


First class response. Welcome aboard!!

You've obviously got a lot to contribute - people who know how to dig & analyze are a great asset.

I hear what you're saying. But just to illustrate how discussions can easily turn into a 'my scientists are better than your scientists' - type argument, take a glance at this old thread: Vast Cracks Appear in Arctic Ice , (especially what SystemiK says half-way down page 10!).

Things are rarely clear, not least when both sides pull out all the stops to quote their sources. If you ask me, a willingness to listen is the key (-I feel I've learned loads on here - including from my opponents in that, and other debates).

My deodorant is completely free of aluminum and it works great. Smells good, stops sweat and everything. There was even a big sticker on it that said 0% aluminum so clearly someone in the industry is catching on. The brand is Adidas and I got it at walmart.

There are too many ingredients to list but Aluminum-anything is not one of them.

reply to post by iamnotacrook



Thank you for coming here and stating the scientific truth. I tried to post about the nonsense claims in this thread yesterday, but for some reason it never showed up. I see repeating unresearched claims in the same light as forwarding an urban legend without at least checking it first on Snopes.com.

Here's the bad news...

After feeling quite encouraged that I haven't used anti-p for a couple of decades, I glanced at my deo bottle this morning. You guessed it:

Ingredients: ... aluminium chlorohydrate ...

I'm beginning to wonder whether we really need these products anyway. Could it be more to do with making $$$ £££ ¥¥¥ than meeting our needs (-even taking the social aspects into consideration)? Maybe just a wash before & after work would see many of us through the day?




[added the word 'deo']

[edit on 23/7/08 by pause4thought]

If you were to apply anti perspirants to your entire body you would effectivly die. no ifs and or buts. Yet the fda rules this safe? Just like the tomatos were contaimnated...oh wait its jalopeno peppers now. I suggest everyone call in to the fda and other companys producing this and let them know your opinion.

I have used Old Spice for some time now. I have never had any swelling beneath my arm pits at all. Am I immune or is the damage being done without me knowing? I feel fine. What deodorants are out in the market that are safe? Would Trader Joes be a good place to check? What about Toms of Maine? They were bought by Colgate-Palm Olive so I am not sure whether they are "natural" anymore.