September of '08 -- Just Listen.

I talked to my brother--the math genius--and he says that he wouldve heard of the time-wave if it was based on sound mathematics or science. He says it is probably bogus. I told him to look into it further, to humor me. So I will research further and wait for his input. I want to believe.

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
I talked to my brother--the math genius--and he says that he wouldve heard of the time-wave if it was based on sound mathematics or science. He says it is probably bogus. I told him to look into it further, to humor me. So I will research further and wait for his input. I want to believe.

That is hysterical. So because he's a mathematician(that's misspelled, isn't it?) and hasn't heard of it, it can't be true.

Do you know that there are over 2000 branches of mathematics? And the average mathematician is well versed with less than a dozen of those.

See where I'm going with this?

Vas

reply to post by Vasilis Azoth




I never said my brother was modest about his knowledge, that is why I told him to research it for me, mostly because I want his perspective, he does have an incredibly powerful mind (he is able to close his eyes--go into a trance--and compute fractals and matters of chaos theory and such...his brain-power is scary). But he is overzealous, and can be an a-hole at times. He thinks Tom Likus is funny.... The point is, I want to believe. And while I will do my best to research this, I want my brother to examine the evidence and see what he says, because that is worth something. The fact that he touted he didn't know about it--and it is therefore bogus--is typical for him. He speaks of Daniel Quinn as a prophet (annoyingly, for the last however many years), so his perspective is clouded and filtered, but his ability to work with numbers and equations is unparalleled.

The version for sale a a repackaged version. I have both the original, and the one that is sold.

Personally, I like the original software better. If anyone's interested in it (since the original isn't being sold anywhere) just U2U me.

I'm keeping my eye out on this story

As another ATS'er in the thread above noted that,

That is a very good point! If a pandemic broke out in China, I am sure china will try and keep it under raps for the sake of the Olympics. In turn this would cause the pandemic to spread throughout the world...scary thought.

Just keeping my eyes peeled for anything...

Okay, no brother mathematician needed, although I will want to hear from him...

Sorry to debunk, but this mathematician, Matthew Watkins, has his analysis:

www.fourmilab.ch...

Autopsy for a Mathematical Hallucination?

I'm now in the slightly awkward position of having to use mathematical reasoning to disprove an assertion which hasn't actually be stated in mathematical terms, but which is obviously mathematical in content. There is no doubt that McKenna's timewave is a well-defined (if irrelevant) mathematical function, but any considerations of its interpretation lie ouside the domain of mathematical logic. We must therefore take into account McKenna's argument for the "half twist", for if he as no good argument (as the footnote originally suggested), even he agrees that the theory can no longer be taken seriously.

With a kind reservation in conclusion:

On a more positive note, I should add that I don't find McKenna's timewave exploit to be completely without value. Certain observations (such as the absence of 5's in the set [h(1),...,h(64)] and the correspondence of the Chinese 13-lunation ritual calendar with six 64-day cycles) are certainly worthy of further consideration. It wouldn't surprise me if a fractal map of temporal resonance was encoded into the King Wen sequence, just as it wouldn't surprise me if something quite remarkable does occur on December 21, 2012. The world can be a very strange place, and we all have much to learn. McKenna's hyper-imaginative speculation has fired the imagination of many. With this particular "theory" he has spread awareness of the I Ching and the Mayan calendar, both fascinating and poorly understood systems of ancient human thought. I should therefore end by suggesting that the remainder of his published thought should not be dismissed as a result of my findings which are discussed here.

www.fourmilab.ch...

reply to post by pluckynoonez


I just finished reading Watkins objections, and sadly, though I am mathematically challenged, I personally must conclude TM's premises are faulty, and I surmise by the article, TM concluded the same. However, I do believe we live in pivotal times. As history is unfolding before our eyes, I can see that SOMETHING is approaching, and we need no mathematical formula to come to this conclusion. Will it be a "novel" event? Probably not, for there is nothing new under the sun, but the magnitude of the event coming could be enough to tip history into a new direction, a new paradigm. And in the end, the timing may even justify TM's model, though we may not be able to explain it with mathematics. We surely live in interesting times.

You guys do know that it was an earlier version that Watkins found fault with, right?

The program I am using is based upon the revised equations.

McKenna was highly critical of such fields for adhering to what he saw as a flawed Occidental paradigm, and did not seek to create a theory acceptable to the mathematical community. The theory was, however, revised by nuclear physicist John Sheliak after a flaw was discovered by Matthew Watkins.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Hi Mystik. Well, I am not totally ready to throw the model out. What Watkins objected to most was the "Half Twist" in the equation that TM inserted (the -1) in such a random way. TM noted that he had done it 20 years prior to their meeting and could not remember the reason for it. I would be willing to bet that TM had a logical reason for it and that is probably the KEY. Unfortunately, we will never know. However, you say now that there is a revision to the software. Is the "half twist" removed? Is something else put in its place that is supported by the math and logic? Just curious.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


You got that quote from wikipedia and it says "citation needed". Look, I am not trying to be oppositional, I already thanked you for bringing this information. But we need the hard math and science with this in order to believe. So, please, back-up your claim that the time-wave is revised and better. Quote someone who says it is ironclad, please.

Alright my friend!

Here are the words from the "horses mouth" -- if you will, the nuclear physicist that revised the mathematical formulas for the timewave.

It is in PDF format, somewhat long...

I believe *this* is what you are looking for/wanting to see:

Reexamination of the Timewave by Sheliak

I hope that illicits more questions than it does answers!!

I believe that this 49-page explaination is really the best out there to date.

I can barley understand most of this since I never even took math higher than Trigonometry (BA student here!)

Terence McKenna even openly welcomed the "Watkins Objection" , for example:

Recently, while in Mexico at the classic Maya site of Palenque, I made the aquaintance of a young British mathematician and psychokinesiologist named Matthew Watkins. Watkins offered the strongest and most interesting critique of the timewave and the assumptions of its construction yet made. Watkins is confident that he has condensed the theory of the timewave into a formula (given below) and is further convinced that there is no rational basis for assuming that the timewave represents the fluctuation of any quantity which can be meaningfully understood as "novelty".

- Terence McKenna

I know I've just thrown up a vast array of new information to pour through...I'm pouring through it as well!

Sheliak concluded:

The results reported here make no final claims as to the validity of the TimeWave as it is expressed by Novelty Theory, nor does it claim that the current TimeWave is the best description of the Novelty process. It does show that the proper mathematical treatment of the FOD number set, produces a TimeWave that appears to be more consistent with known historical process. This consistency is general, however, and more work needs to be done to examine the specific reflections or projections that the TimeWave may be revealing. If Novelty Theory is a valid hypothesis, reflecting a real phenomenon in nature, then one would expect that it is verifiable in specific ways.

It has also seemed appropriate to examine some of the steps in this wave development process in terms of their correspondence with elements of philosophy and science. The flow of Yin and Yang energy reflected in the expression of the forward and reverse bi-directional waves, for example, finds philosophical correspondence in a natural cycle of life-death-rebirth, or in the process of the shamanic journey - immersion, engagement, and return. Correspondence can also be found in science, in the fields of cosmology, astronomy, astrophysics, and quantum physics - the life cycles and motion of heavenly bodies, quarks, and universes; the harmonic and holographic nature of light and wave mechanics; and the cyclic transformation of matter to energy, and energy to matter. The reflection of all natural phenomena and processes over the continuum of existence, from the smallest scales up to the largest scales, must surely include whatever process is occurring in the I-Ching as well. The question is, are we are clever and conscious enough to decipher and express it correctly and appropriately?

[edit on 31-7-2008 by MystikMushroom]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

John bannet ramsey made the list, but 9/11 didn't.

Sorry, but I say I cannot believe it.

my thoughts exactly, but I guess none of us will ever know until september of '08.

reply to post by caballero


Dig through the 12 pages a bit more.

You'll discover what novelty really means. It does not mean a "new event" -- but something "not ordinary", not of the "status-quo"...

False flag events like 9/11 are pretty status quo, but the fallout of 9/11 is clearly shown as being very novel in my second set of graphs.

I like your avatar btw...

Thank you MM (I like the cute coyote by the way...), I will begin reading and also forward the links to my egotistical mathematician brother.

I finally found a link that'll let you all experiment with this on your own!!!

It appears to be the same as what I am using ... V4.3... This is the last "official" Terence McKenna Timewave Zero software released by himself. The "Fractal Time" software looks different -- so obviously *is* somehow different than the creators last version (with the Sheliak correction included).

Okay, it's a ZIP file and there are no instructions...you'll be navigating blind. I can help if you want b/c it took me days to figure out out to graph certain time-spans with certain target dates. Just ask!

Here is Terence's Magnum Opus!

Original Timewave Zero 4.3 (final) ZIP

Hope that helps out some!

EDIT: Use the file "TWZERO87.EXE" (the largest file) to run the software -- I just tested it and it's the same as what I have!


[edit on 1-8-2008 by MystikMushroom]

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
Thank you MM (I like the cute coyote by the way...), I will begin reading and also forward the links to my egotistical mathematician brother.

It's actually an arctic fox...but thanks!

Yeah for real, show your brother the revised (and lengthy) scientific article Sheliak wrote. It even begins with an abstract!

LOL!

I tried to follow your logic and admittedly I can be stubborn
I just fail to see the logic.

Though your outcome I believe, and have mentioned a few times on ATS.
That between 08 08 08 and 09 09 09
the S will HTF
and it wont be the trifle 911 was .

Prepare yourselves you will need every scrap of food and items you can buy from now until then to endure what is coming.
Something so big and on a magnitude that warrants
the suspension of Habeas Corpus and for the police to be outfitted with
Military hardware hasnot happened to my Knowledge Since Woodrow Stalin Wilson was in the White house. And He acted out of of ww1






[edit on 1-8-2008 by solo1]

Originally posted by solo1
I tried to follow your logic and admittedly I can be stubborn
I just fail to see the logic.

Though your outcome I believe, and have mentioned a few times on ATS.
That between 08 08 08 and 09 09 09
the S will HTF
and it wont be the trifle 911 was .

Prepare yourselves you will need every scrap of food and items you can buy from now until then to endure what is coming.
Something so big and on a magnitude that warrants
the suspension of Habeas Corpus and for the police to be outfitted with
Military hardware hasnot happened to my Knowledge Since Woodrow Stalin Wilson was in the White house. And He acted out of of ww1






[edit on 1-8-2008 by solo1]

Hm, It would appear you have read only the first few pages of my thread???

It gets much more complex as you follow all 12 pages and skip the "one-liners" and read only the starred postings.

I posted additional photos, and additional clarity.

S = Somthing

HTF = hit the fan

It will "HTF" in a way more "exponentially" more in magnitude than past drops into novelty as previously shown.

This is a "fractal" or in "layman's terms" a so-called "tightening spiral" effect of time/events.

Be it free energy, the LHC (as previously mentioned in this topic) or a mass epidemic of avian flu...I have no "concrete answer" -- which is considered "to ambiguous for most" to consider.

This is an abstract theory, one rooted in ancient times. I do not expect many to take the time time required to study, understand this theory.

Thanks, however, for your input! I'll be here, still accountable when "nothing" as so many think will "not" happen!

Anyone try out that software for themselves yet? (a few posts of mine up)

I'd be interested for other's to test it out and share their experiences.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by MystikMushroom]