Republicans concede: Lifting Moratorium = Pointless

Please.... Stay on Topic and stop the bickering.

Thank You.

reply to post by BlueTriangle


I love how when it comes to McCain flip flopping you say "hind sight is 20/20" but Kerry's flip flops caused him the election. Wow, to coin another term, "ignorance is bliss" may very well in fact pertain to YOU.

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
I love how when it comes to McCain flip flopping you say "hind sight is 20/20" but Kerry's flip flops caused him the election. Wow, to coin another term, "ignorance is bliss" may very well in fact pertain to YOU.

How about we stop the petty bickering and name calling and argue the issue? OK? Read the post directly above yours. You can disagree with my viewpoint on things but to assume that someone who sees the situation differently than you do is ignorant or uninformed is poor judgement. Not that I would expect you to "flip flop" on your assumption that I'm ignorant of the issue.

If you want to discuss flip flops, there are many threads already in place to do so. I will say this though, I don't have any issue with a politician "flip flop"ping on an issue years later after seeing the result of their actions. What I have an issue with is the politician that flip flops multiple times per week to whatever the polling data indicates will win them votes. Those who do this don't stand for anything and, in my opinion, aren't qualified for a city council position let alone the Presidency.

In 2000 oil was trading for $19 a barrell...for moritorium

In 2008 oil is trading for $140+ a barrell...against moritorium

That is not a "flip flop" that is common sense.

I wish democrats had a little. But Pelosi insists on keeping the Pelosi Premium intact.

reply to post by Dronetek


The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) recently did a detailed study of the likely outcome of offshore drilling for their Annual Energy Outlook 2007, “Impacts of Increased Access to Oil and Natural Gas Resources in the Lower 48 Federal Outer Continental Shelf (OCS).” The sobering conclusion:

The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030.

And the impact of the projected 7% (!) increase in lower-48 oil production that might result in 2030 thanks to opening the OCS is … wait for it …

… any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.

Source: www.theoildrum.com...

Who does lifitng the ban on offshore drilling profit? Not the joe citizen according to our own government..then why? Because "big oil" will make billions. This is as corrupt as american politics gets.

"I readily concede it won't produce a barrel of oil tomorrow, ...'

does NOT equate to

'lifting moratorium = pointless'

10 years ago democrats whined and said it would be pointless to drill. If America had drilled then, now we'd have more oil and lower gas prices.

It's called PREPARING for the future. Drill AND work alternative energy sources. BOTH.

OY!

And the impact of the projected 7% (!) increase in lower-48 oil production that might result in 2030 thanks to opening the OCS is … wait for it …

… any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.

The fact is, doing nothing is going to make the price skyrocket. Why don't you guys admit that? All you're doing is making excuses as to why we should continue doing nothing.

By drilling and at least starting to become self sufficient and in the long run, the prices will decrease. Like bush said, there is a physiological effect to the idea of America becoming energy independent. That fact alone will drive prices down.

Putting all your eggs in the "wing and solar" road will only lead to MUCH higher prices and more economic stagnation. Its certainly isn't a logical way to drop oil prices.

reply to post by FlyersFan


See my post above...those are numbers under our current administration, not democratic numbers, and they concede it would have no effect. Even if we drilled 10 years ago we would be in the same place. Bush as much as admits this when he desperately talks about the "psychology" of drilling rather than reality.

We have spent over 700 Billion on wars since 9.11, imagine if that had been invested in alternative technologies. Today our government's investment in alternative fuels equates to a few million. The politics of big oil and the money it spends in washington.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I'm still waiting for drone to post a link that says there is no need to explore offshore as we have already found the oil, we just need to drill.

As for the posts just above mine, did you not read the one that states we won't see an effect until the year 2030 according to our OWN GOVERNMENT! Wow, talk about selective reading.

Originally posted by Dronetek

And the impact of the projected 7% (!) increase in lower-48 oil production that might result in 2030 thanks to opening the OCS is … wait for it …

… any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.

The fact is, doing nothing is going to make the price skyrocket. Why don't you guys admit that? All you're doing is making excuses as to why we should continue doing nothing.

How's this...invest heavily in alternative technologies and get the f*&k out of the middle east. Stop depending on the most volitile region of the world for our energy. OPEC could care less about american "psychology" and whether or not we "feel good" about drilling and could in a single day offset any any gains (that everyone agrees won't happen).

Let's stop being the middle easts biggest oil junkies and do what america does best, innovate and overcome....you want to see oil prices drop to nothing? How do you think OPEC would respond if the US Government announced a 700 Billion dollar investment program in alternative technologies and fuels?

Originally posted by maybereal11
Bush as much as admits this when he desperately talks about the "psychology" of drilling rather than reality.

Why are you trying to read between the lines for Bush's opinion on what things would be like if we had drilled years ago when he actually stated the opinion in the speech? Here's the exact quote, from today's speech:

"I heard somebody say 'well it's going to take seven years.' If we had done it seven years ago, we'd be having a different conversation today"

It's a valid question...why is oil so expensive and what is the solution to bring the price down. More drilling, perhaps, but expand your horizions out of the Rush Limbaugh box and consider this...

www.wealthdaily.com...

and

www.cato.org...

I say that the thread title is true regarding the very short term when considering supply and demand, now. Five years from now increased supply will affect prices if we do a lot more than just produce to keep up with demand as time goes on.

I disagree with the implication of the lack of psychological effect of lifting moratoriums and the beginning of new building offshore sites and even the potential of increased ANWAR drilling and Rockies oil shale production in the near future.

Fear (psychology, increased future trend in a tightening market, drop in future supply-interruption in production, etc.) is what is driving the speculators to trade futures like they are and the same psychology (fear of increased supply = less value per barrel produced) from the potential of new production and incresed supplies, especially domestically, will cause a reversal in market futures trading trends, causing traders to sell on volume rather than price to garner market profit for the trades of the commodity.

Fear is a wondrously powerful tool to affect outcomes. Ever sit at home all day waiting for you dad to come home after acting like a knucklehead with mom? It has the power to redirect heavy things....

Speculators, with firm knowledge that the US is going to go balls to the walls looking for domestic oil reserves and is dedicated to produce and detach itself as much as possible from oil imports, WILL react accordingly to protect futures trading profits.

My thoughts are that this isnt as political as everyone thinks, it the economy stupid.... just my snarky opinion.



[edit on 15-7-2008 by Lost_Mind]

Originally posted by BlueTriangle

Originally posted by maybereal11
Bush as much as admits this when he desperately talks about the "psychology" of drilling rather than reality.

Why are you trying to read between the lines for Bush's opinion on what things would be like if we had drilled years ago when he actually stated the opinion in the speech? Here's the exact quote, from today's speech:

"I heard somebody say 'well it's going to take seven years.' If we had done it seven years ago, we'd be having a different conversation today"

Yes if we drilled seven years ago we would be having a different conversation! A conversation about how the off-shore drilling that big oil lobbyed for had ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on gas prices...maybe we would have a congressional hearing about how much the oil companies made from it and why it didn't effect gas prices.

ARE YOU NOT READING THE GOVERNMENT REPORT...if drilling now would have no impact how would drilling 7 years have made a difference? Even BUSHS FATHER understood this!

YES there is enough oil there to make the oil companies a HUGE profit, especially with associated government subsidies and tax breaks, but NOT ENOUGH to effect gas prices. NOW OR 7 YEARS AGO.

AND where the heck did GW get 7 years...he "heard someone say"?? how convenient when his own administration is talking 2030.

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
did you not read the one that states we won't see an effect until the year 2030

Oh .. I saw it .. I just don't buy it. Drill now and not see oil and therefore a reduction in foreign dependency until 2030? Hogwash. It's not going to take 22 years from the time we start drilling until the oil starts flowing.

So .. yes I saw it. No .. I don't buy it.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
did you not read the one that states we won't see an effect until the year 2030

Oh .. I saw it .. I just don't buy it. Drill now and not see oil and therefore a reduction in foreign dependency until 2030? Hogwash. It's not going to take 22 years from the time we start drilling until the oil starts flowing.

So .. yes I saw it. No .. I don't buy it.

Oh..I didn't realize that you were better versed in the economic, geological, technological and scientific ins and outs of drilling and the projected outcomes than the entire U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) ! ! Just not buying it huh?

Originally posted by maybereal11
Oh..I didn't realize that you were better versed in the economic, geological, technological and scientific ins and outs of drilling and the projected outcomes than the entire U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) ! ! Just not buying it huh?

I don't buy it either. Like most things our government does nowadays, it's contrary to common sense. Regardless, even if this study is right on and there's zero effect on the price of oil/gas...at least we're not sending that money overseas.

President Bush is talking about a pshycological affect on oil prices, is this him ADMITTING that speculation/pshycology is driving the prices?????

I THINK SO

If it was truly supply/demand, then pshycology wouldn't have a darn thing to do with this ban lifting crap.

Ha.....................I DO BELIEVE I HAVE WON THIS ARGUMENT! (in the humble words of comedian Carlos Mencia)

[edit on 15-7-2008 by Cowgirlstraitup7]

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
President Bush is talking about a pshycological affect on oil prices, is this him ADMITTING that speculation/pshycology is driving the prices?????

I THINK SO

It always has. One of John Adams sons lost his brothers life savings playing it on the speculators in the late 1700's - it was about as bad as gambling can be. Same as it always was...

reply to post by BlueTriangle


We have been rewarding countries like rich oil Saudi Arabia even before oil became a crisis, they just have so much money that they are buying our nation with it.

The irony.