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Republicans concede: Lifting Moratorium = Pointless

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posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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[Bush] called on the Democratic-run Congress to follow his example and lift a ban on offshore drilling to help increase domestic oil production.

"I readily concede it won't produce a barrel of oil tomorrow, but it will reverse the psychology," Bush told a White House news conference.


Source

So the forerunner to this 'offshore drilling' scandal that John McCain has taken part in, is proven to be worthless.

It'll reverse the psychology?

So...we'll still be getting screwed...only we'll feel better about it?


I'm Confused.

Looks like McCain might be making another flip flop soon.

So would we call this McCain strategy the flip, flop, flip ....?


Sounds more like a bad Markey Mark album that never made the cut.


During his last run for the presidency, in 1999, McCain supported the drilling moratorium, and he scolded the “special interests in Washington” that sought offshore drilling leases.

Yesterday, he announced that those very same “moratoria should be lifted” and proposed incentives for the states “in the form of tangible financial rewards, if the states decide to lift those moratoriums.”

Source




and lets not forget who started this "moratorium"



"The current moratorium, which President Bush's father imposed, applies to just 20 percent of the known oil and gas resources located in our Outer Continental Shelf.

While 80 percent of known oil and gas resources that are technologically recoverable in the Outer Continental Shelf are available for drilling right now, energy companies have chosen to not produce on those acres.

Instead, the energy companies are letting those leases, which they own, sit idly until the price of oil soars to $200 or $300 per barrel so that they can drill on them later and generate even larger profits down the road.

Source


So vote republican. Atleast then - you'll feel good about high gas prices, inflated food costs, and the war in iraq....regardless of how bad things are.

Is that how George Bush John McCain wants us to think?


No solutions. Just feelings.

John McCain should endorse this message. 2008



[edit on 7/15/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]




posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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weird double post

[edit on 7/15/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


Excellent post!! Star and Flag for you.


While I support Obama, I really do wish their was a third choice. Ron Paul for instance.

I think all this flip flopping makes John Kerry's apparent flip flops look like nothing.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7
 


Agreed. And you make a good point.

Many "anti-obama" people on ATS (as well as other places) seem to think that Obama supporters are "faithful to the messiah" and this and that.

I agree. If a better option were available (ron paul, ross perot) i'd go for it.

Being as it is not a REAL option to write - in one of those candidates for me (write-ins are an option, they're also a pipe dream, iMO) i have to go with Barack Obama.

If i'm going to support Obama, im not going to do it half assed. I'm going to support him. Do i disagree with him on some things? Yep.

But i disagree with a lot more things where McCain is concerned.



The moratorium won't do a damn thing for gas prices. And George W. Bush just admitted it.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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How in the world could drilling for our own oil be a bad thing? In my opinion, hurting the American people in order to force them on to undeveloped technologies is pointless. I'll tell you what wont make us energy independent. Sitting back and doing nothing, while hoping some new technology will surface and save the day.

We have other countries drilling our oil right off our coast. Why should Americans not be allowed to get their own oil?


The moratorium won't do a damn thing for gas prices. And George W. Bush just admitted it.


Bush did not say that.....


[edit on 15-7-2008 by Dronetek]



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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I voted for Ross Perot when he ran, I actually remember the election. I was sitting in my grandmothers living room watching the results come in and I actually cried when he lost. I was very young then and naive enough to think an independant could win an election.

As far as these flip flops on oil are concerned, I still have one question. Why aren't we drilling on land we already own and have the permits to drill on???

If I may be so bold as to answer my own question. I think the reps want o push offshore drilling (instead of doing it on land we alreay have the right to) knowing full well the dems won't agree. Thus they can blame the dems for high oil prices and reap the rewards. But that's just my uneducated guess.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Dronetek
 


We have the land, we have the permits, we just won't do it! Explain that one to me.

We also have alternatives, remember the electric car? Have you seen the movie "What happened to the electric car".

Seriously you are just spouting crap you see on tv and do no research.

[edit on 15-7-2008 by Cowgirlstraitup7]

[edit on 15-7-2008 by Cowgirlstraitup7]



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
reply to post by Dronetek
 


We have the land, we have the permits, we just won't do it! Explain that one to me.

We also have alternatives, remember the electric car? Have you seen the movie "What happened to the electric car".

Seriously you are just spouting crap you see on tv and do no research.

[edit on 15-7-2008 by Cowgirlstraitup7]

[edit on 15-7-2008 by Cowgirlstraitup7]


If any of that junk was viable, it would have taken off already. Its not cost effective and you cant force it on people by making them pay out the ass for fuel.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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I tried twice to edit my post and add a link to what I was talking about but it didn't work, here is the link to our untapped oil we aren't drilling on. Sorry for not including it first.

money.cnn.com...



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
I tried twice to edit my post and add a link to what I was talking about but it didn't work, here is the link to our untapped oil we aren't drilling on. Sorry for not including it first.

money.cnn.com...


As I understand it, millions would need invested to explore those areas. Whereas off shore and Alaskan oil have already been located and just need drilled.

If we were to start drilling in these places, the perception would be "The US is going to become independent in a few years", thus the price would go down.

How in the world is limiting US growth and production going to help the average American? How is letting our oil be drilled by other countries good for America? Guess what? The world runs on oil and no amount of spin from the left is going to change that. Regular, everyday people need cheap fuel to work and live. Developing Africa needs LOTS of oil and coal to develop their country. Are you going to hinder their progress as well?



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by Dronetek
 


Ahh. Drone lives up to his name and is off regurgitating everything Rush Limbaugh shovel feeds him.


Explain something to me, Dronetek.

If we drill on our own coasts. How will it lower the cost of gasoline?
Give me your assessment, and in your words, not someone else's.

Im curious to see how your opinion works in this situation.

And yes, you're right, george bush (verbatim) did not say it wont lower the price of the gas.

He just said "it wont produce a single barrel" and that "it'll only chnage the psychology"

So you can believe what Rush tells you if you want.

Bush just admitted it. It wont do anything.

I await your reply:

How will lifting the moratorium (placed by bush's father) that is supported by John McCain, going to lower the cost of gasoline



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Dronetek
 


Again, did you even research the electric car? It is viable, we had it, it mysteriously went away. Companies overseas are still making them. Don't tell me something isn't viable when there is plenty of proof it is. My goodness, you sound like one of the talking heads on Fox News.

There is a guy here in Kansas that converted his 4x4 truck to all electric, he has signs all over his truck proclaiming how great it is. I actually saw a bus (like a Greyhound style) by GM flying down the highway just yesterday that was hybrid. The tech is there, big oil doesn't want us to have it.

By the way, the side of the bus said "It's a hybrid with 82 back seats"
Meaning hybrid doesn't mean small and compact. I'm guessing.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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Don't go complaining about things because you don't understand them. I don't know about anything else you're complaining about here, but the psychology is valid.

Economics is heavily influenced by psychology and speculation. Say...create a graph of supply in your mind. It can be linear, quadratic, you name it. This level of supply is the immediate "supply" in supply and demand, market theory.

However, it's obvious that this isn't the only thing that controls speculation. It's also important to find the derivative of that graph - find the slope, and how that slope changes. And then you can derive it again, and find the slope of the change in slope. And since we only know how it is in the past, or almost the present, we must speculate on what the levels will be, what the change in levels will be, and what the change in change in levels will be in the future. Speculation.

Basically, how people think the market is going to change in the future is a very significant economic factor. I know this sort of gets in the way of your radically biased Obama Crusade, but that's how it works.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7


While I support Obama, I really do wish their was a third choice. Ron Paul for instance.


uh, there is and you named him.
but just because he isn't actively running, ppl will discount him.

one of the things that SHOULD make america great is that you are not limited to who is on the ticket. educate yourself and others on this and maybe, just maybe we could actually get someone who is for the ppl into office.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Johnmike
 


Johnmike. You crack me up

you're always a ball of rage hellbent on calling anyone who disagree's with you a "obama worshiper"

Please man. The world is not black and white any longer. There are many gray areas that people like me fall into.

Its not about "VOTE FOR OBAMA"
it is about "dont vote for McCain"

And since McCain is taking a stance on Off-shore drilling (the one he supported a moratorium for under George H W Bush in 1990) and now supports the abolishment of under George W. Bush in 2008...i believe it has impact on this election.

i was going to post a big long drawn out explanation of how it will not effect gas prices, but someone already beat me to it

so before i show you those posts.....i'll chime something of my own opinion in here


Bush's father imposed a moratorium on off-shore drilling, which made a lot more of our imports "foreign". Obviously not in the favor of the American people.

Bush jr is now in favor of lifting that moratorium. Fine - you can lift the moratorium, that is not my issue.

My issue is that Bush is lifting it to remove blame from him. Its his fault gas prices are this high. Lifting the moratorium will have no impact on gas prices, and bush said it himself.

THAT is my issue.



This post does a very good job of exposing the "psychological effect" Theory

and

This post
does a very good job of explaining why the moratorium is just a political game so bush can remove the blame from himself.

Before Bush took office our gas was bearable. It's risen 166% since that day. I challenge you to find ONE OTHER ITEM, anything, period, non-oil related, that has risen that much.

A box of crayons is the same price - they're made from a barrel of oil
Plastic bags are the same price - made from a barrel of oil
Hell, even motor oil has only incrimentally risen in price - from the same barrel of oil

but gasoline went up.... big time...Shocking that you still find time to support republicans with this kind of knowledge.

So...high oil prices are.....the fault of democrats who have only been in "power" for 2 years?

Please.

[edit on 7/15/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Dronetek
 


One last thing, please provide me with a link that says we know for a fact where all the oil is offshore, and that we won't need to spend millions on exlploration. Thank you in advance for the info.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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And yes.

Oil prices have SOARED under the Bush administration
And since john mccain supports the some ideals as Bush, we can only assume they'll continue to rise.

lets use This article as a reference point for the following:

2001 national average for gasoline per gallon: $1.20
2008 national average for gasoline per gallon: $4.11

7 years difference

and if my math is worth a hoot - thats a 242.5% increase in 7 years.

So.....yeah.

oil prices went up that much under the Bush administration....and in 7 years they've offered nay a solution until the very end.

Their solution is to lift a moratorium that wont effect prices for years.....

and now its the democrats fault?

Thats why we call it a political game from Bush. It solves NOTHING and only serves as a mind game for politics.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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/sarcasm/

But it's about supply and demand, in the last 7 years demand has gone up 200%

/end sarcasm/



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
2001 national average for gasoline per gallon: $1.20
2008 national average for gasoline per gallon: $4.11.....

and now its the democrats fault?


The Dems got elected in 2006 under the promise of lowering the cost of gas. Have they? Gas has skyrocketed in the two years they've been in office.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7
 


Haha.

True. India and China are consuming more oil. No doubt about it. It is going to increase fuel consumption. However

That would imply that countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran have hit their limit on oil deposits, and are currently pumping out at maximum potential.

Because the "demand" went up 200%, but they could no produce more to meet the demand.

BUT


If that were the case, then explain to me how the saudi's themselves said "we will produce an additional 500,000 barrels per day" Story here


This has nothing to do with supply and demand, so i appreciate your sarcasm


It has everything to do with big oil getting bigger, at the very expense of the American citizen.

George W. Bush has had 7 years so far (almost 8) to do something about it....and hasnt

John McCain will offer the same kinds of results.

Go ahead and lift the moratorium. Just dont blame the democrats when it doesnt change gas prices.



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