Aliens, the Boogeyman, and Creatures That Go Bump In the Night

Originally posted by QuantumReality

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I have been on ATS now for three years

Registered: 1-12-2005

lol

Is there a point you're trying to make there or something?

You didn't even get that date correct?

If you can't talk about the subject matter seriously, am I to assume you're attacking date of registration instead? Everyone else is having a civil discussion.

Originally posted by QuantumReality

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I have been on ATS now for three years

Registered: 1-12-2005

lol

Is there a point you're trying to make there or something?

You didn't even get that date correct?

If you can't talk about the subject matter seriously, am I to assume you're attacking date of registration instead? Everyone else is having a civil discussion.

And here I thought not attacking anyone's credibility here might actually be reciprocated.


[edit on 9-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

easy mate, not looking for fisty cuffs, no need to get out of hand

yes i got your registry date right

Originally posted by QuantumReality
yes i got your registry date right

Apparently you didn't.

I'm having trouble understanding what it is that you're trying to say with your posts. We were exchanging opinions and perspectives on subjects pertaining to ATS and this forum (Aliens & UFOs) in particular, what does the date of registration of a user matter for that?

Would you care to discuss the matters at hand? Otherwise I would appreciate it if you didn't derail the conversation. Thanks.

Then there is no belief for the OP that ET actually exists. I have witnessed and experienced paranormal events. I have no doubt that a paranormal world exists. Could ET somehow be part of the paranormal. If it is so are we making it easier for ET to appear.
Maybe all these electrical fields we are creating are 1. attracting unusual phenomena, entities or 2. establishing a medium for them to operate in.
I don't personally feel that people are insane or simply imagining things.

Personally I am on the fence with the whole alien beings visiting us here on earth. Yes many people have seen UFO's but that is exactly what they are, unidentified flying objects, it doesnt necessarily mean they are of alien origin. I have no doubt that we are not alone in the universe but wheter they are visiting us here is something I can't say for sure and like the OP until i actually see one in front of me I will remain on the fence.

In terms of the Government and cover ups about their knowledge of aliens etc. Well what if the governement don't actually know anything about aliens. People put their faith in the Governement to know what goes on in the country (not always the case though)Think of it this way, the Governement get all these accounts of UFO's and abductions, people have gone to them for some kind of answer, now they dont want to seem like they don't know. It's just a front for them to save face, they dont want to be seen like they don't know as this may cause some panic so they remain silent. They cant say "oh yeah, those aliens always come over for cold beers on a Friday" cos then people would want more info and they cant say "No way do they exist" as they would be seen as being small minded.

So they are in a catch 22 situation and maybe just as much in teh dark as we are but aren't willing to admit it...

[edit on 9-7-2008 by The Hobo]

Originally posted by son of PC
Then there is no belief for the OP that ET actually exists.

He didn't say that, he said he was agnostic about it. Here's his quote from the first post:

Again I am not stating aliens do not exist nor am I claiming UFO’s do not exist, there very well could be Martian’s and unidentified flying objects, but I know I have seen neither, so I will remain on the fence and waiting to be proved to one way or the other about this

I have witnessed and experienced paranormal events. I have no doubt that a paranormal world exists. Could ET somehow be part of the paranormal.

Well, what does paranormal mean to you?

From this online dictionary they describe paranormal as:

Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation

In that sense, UFOs that demonstrate capabilities that defy the known laws of physics, abduction experiences and so on are indeed paranormal. Doesn't mean they don't have a physical origin or explanation. Many of the things science now understands and explains could have been considered 'paranormal' in the past.

Sometimes people mean paranormal in the sense of more spiritual experiences, the spiritual world, that's why I'm asking you. Not that I'm suggesting that some of these cases are not 'spiritual' in nature, I can't rule that out, but I'm more inclined to believe that at least the majority of cases, don't have anything to do with the spiritual world.

I don't personally feel that people are insane or simply imagining things.

Me neither. I'm sure there's a considerable percentage of people and experiences that we have to assume were either misunderstood, or in fact, illusions. But not all of them.

Originally posted by The Hobo
I can't say for sure and like the OP until i actually see one in front of me I will remain on the fence.

I'm with you on the fact that we can't say for sure. But, for instance, how do you explain the descriptions and representations of UFOs in the past? And I don't mean 20 years ago, I'm talking hundreds of years ago and some even millennia (especially if you take the religious interpretations into consideration). Do you reject them all as misidentifications and fiction?

In terms of the Government and cover ups about their knowledge of aliens etc. Well what if the governement don't actually know anything about aliens.

That's a possibility that can't be rejected, however, if aliens do exist and some UFOs are alien in origin, one thing's for sure in my mind: the Government knows more about it than we do.

Originally posted by QuantumReality
yes i got your registry date right

Registered: 30-11-2005
Location: Stepping Off The Back of A Pelican

Do you mean this registration date that you got wrong? Stay on topic.

I do not want to fight either, but this is an arcane topic to begin with because of the lack of proof or questionibility sometimes.

reply to post by danx


Thanks for sticking up for Me on several points. I'll post more when I get home.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by danx


It is true that sightings of UFO's go back hundreds of years but so do some other unexplained phenomenen (sp) like the Sasquatch. So I sometimes wonder is it just part of folklore passed down through the ages and like the OP are the government taking advantage of this to distract people from something else.

I have no doubt that Governments know more than they actually say they do but do they know enough that they could give the general population "disclosure"

Originally posted by The Hobo
So I sometimes wonder is it just part of folklore passed down through the ages and like the OP are the government taking advantage of this to distract people from something else.

I would agree with that conclusion except that, in my view, the actions of Governments and Military do not show their motivation to promote those stories. In fact, it has been shown that the Government has gone to great lengths to cover things up pertaining to UFOs.

Unless it's the most highly sophisticated reverse-psychology kind of tactic ever employed, it doesn't really add up to me has all being just a campaign to manipulate and keep people distracted.

I have no doubt that Governments know more than they actually say they do but do they know enough that they could give the general population "disclosure"

I agree with you on that possibility. I don't see how the Government would have any significant and quantitative information unless aliens had contacted the Government and exchanged information; or alien beings had been recovered and/or captured from crash sites and successful interrogations had been made.

reply to post by danx

Unless it's the most highly sophisticated reverse-psychology kind of tactic ever employed, it doesn't really add up to me has all being just a campaign to manipulate and keep people distracted.

OK after reading it there you have kind of changed my perception on the tactic of distraction. It would take one hell of an operation to keep up that reverse psychology act for so long but I do think they use it to their advantage at times.

I don't buy into some peoples claims of "The US Military are working in underground bases with aliens" That's a bit off the wall plus there is no way they could keep that kind of thing a secret for so long. There is the human element to that kind of theory. I know if i was involved in that kind of work no matter what kind of secret clauses you sign you'd have to tell at least someone even your wife.

Although maybe thats why I havent been recruited by the Men in Black

well first ill start off by saying in reality i cannot answer a flawed question , due to the fact i actually saw the ufo's before and they shot off directly into outer space very fast

i dont care if u believe me, im sure you wont
but i just wanted you to know your OP question was deeply flawed, in that i cannot answer a question that doesnt make any realistic sense lol

now if you had seen the ufo i saw, and saw where it went (into outer space) you wouldnt be so quick to jump on the "its all a govt op" bandwagon

you would realize there is possibly technological societys far in advance of our own, and that this is the most vital secret of mankind , no matter which way you look at it

heres Occams Razor in my personal view

1) Black Ops Aerospace programs
--- least likely situation , humans are morons i doubt we have come that far alone without help this quickly

2) Humans from the future
-- equally as likely as number 1, because humans are morons and i doubt even in the future we could figure it out lol sorry to bust your ego there but were just monkeys

3) Extra-dimensional Beings
--- this one prolly is a decent possibility, but still unlikely due to what i actually saw

4) midgets from another planet who figured out how to build spaceships like we did, but a way long time ago

----seems like the most likely situation, given the Facts
-theres countless stars everywhere around us
-theres countless chances they could develop in any various capacity
-i saw a freakin flying disk fly straight up into the sky into outer space

at mach 30+ mind you
no sonic boom tho...pure quiet...

but since you wanted me to pretend, ill go ahead and pretend with you for a moment, that aliens dont exist and some silly god on a cloud made us 6000years ago

OK ill bite

if the alien cover up is a hoax, then that means the govt' flew a "secret" aircraft over my house several times, and shot it off directly into outerspace at impressive speeds

thats a mighty huge amount of $$$ and amazingly advanced Tech just to hoax me to believe aliens exist when in reality is the secret space program?

ya it just doesnt make sense...

see why i think what i saw was alien and not govt /future human/ or extra dimensional

i cannot afford to sit on the fence like you my lucky friend

i am condemned to know the truth , i cant choose to not know it
i saw it , it was burnt in my head for life

when i saw that first time i said "Wow thats real???!"
and then i realized my guilt and said "Omg we made fun of all those crazy people for reporting the truth!!???? "

At least i realized i was wrong

ever since that day i realized i cant trust anyone at all
thats why i give people a chance now, and hear their story
despite how totally bunk it may sound, there might be a reality somewhere in it...

im a super skeptic usually too, i only believe what ive seen

well i cant "not believe" anymore
that option was destroyed by reality

Originally posted by The Hobo
It would take one hell of an operation to keep up that reverse psychology act for so long but I do think they use it to their advantage at times.

Again, I agree with you on that.
I've spoken about that in a couple of my previous posts.

In this post, I link a CIA report called CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 written by an agency historian.

In it, we can read things like:

[DCI Walter Bedell] Smith also wanted to know what use could be made of the UFO phenomenon in connection with US psychological warfare efforts. (Smith expressed his opinions at a meeting in the DCI Conference Room attended by his top officers. See Deputy Chief, Requirements Staff, FI, memorandum for Deputy Director, Plans, "Flying Saucers," 20 August 1952)

Air Force and CIA officials agreed that outside knowledge of Agency interest in UFOs would make the problem more serious. This concealment of CIA interest contributed greatly to later charges of a CIA conspiracy and coverup.

The CIA Study Group also searched the Soviet press for UFO reports, but found none, causing the group to conclude that the absence of reports had to have been the result of deliberate Soviet Government policy. The group also envisioned the USSR's possible use of UFOs as a psychological warfare tool.

At the same time, pressure was building for the release of the Robertson panel report on UFOs. In 1956, Edward Ruppelt, former head of the Air Force BLUE BOOK project, publicly revealed the existence of the panel.[...] Despite such pressure, Philip Strong, Deputy Assistant Director of OSI, refused to declassify the report and declined to disclose CIA sponsorship of the panel. As an alternative, the Agency prepared a sanitized version of the report which deleted any reference to CIA and avoided mention of any psychological warfare potential in the UFO controversy.

From this report we can be positive that they most certainly used it to their advantage in some cases to cover their own operations, but from my interpretation of the events and timelines in this report, and my personal belief, the CIA (and possibly other agencies) saw the potential of using them as cover after they investigated UFOs and UFO reports.

So this leads to me one conclusion: they didn't create the UFO story, or at least, they didn't control it.

Of course, if we were to believe this is disinformation then all this is in fact part of the incredibly sophisticated reverse-psychology operation. Which I personally don't believe.
I mean, let's face it, some attack the people who believe in a cover-up of the UFO/Alien matters, because they say it wasn't possible for them to cover an alien presence for this long, but somehow it's possible to have fabricated the whole UFO and alien story (abductions included) to manipulate people for a lot longer time?
I find this hypothesis even more difficult to believe and pull off.

I don't buy into some peoples claims of "The US Military are working in underground bases with aliens"

I don't reject the possibility, but I'm with you one that. I believe that's possibly part of their disinformation campaign to cover-up or at least muddy the waters of real and serious UFO research.

If you can make outlandish claims with no substantial evidence, exaggerate the stories and fill them with absurdities and ridiculous details, and make people focus on those things, the idea that the general public and people who don't investigate these matters get is that the UFO field has no credibility and everyone in it is a kook.

Well I believe in aliens and ufos. That's considering how long they've been around and all the obviously clear evidence out there. Considering how humans have been created and all the ways people say we were created I would have to say it's very possible for another advanced race out there.

Some of these aliens are called Reptilians and such, it is very well believed that they were even around before us and it's even been said from very good resources about most of the cases on the subject. They've even said some of them look similar to us and can take are form.

You would think that interdimensional or wormholes could lead to just about anything maybe even to another planet. Anyways, people believe there will be a time when we enter the next dimension or something and some people believe the Dinosaurs had done that at a time. Dinosaurs should be taken more seriously because they were created many,many years before us and then they were just wiped out leaving relatives such as animals...UFO's have been taken in for the military and government to study and make more for their own uses. But there are still some of ET origin.

Honestly, There has got to be more of an answer to the reason of why the egyptians aligned the pyramids with Orions Belt. There's so much that has been talked about and less looked into if you ask me.

i don't have anything to add, i just wanted to commend this thread on its civility and abundance of calm yet somewhat opposing discourse (with a small exception.) this is the stuff that ATS was meant to be.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by an0maly33]

reply to post by danx


I totally agree with you that there are agencies out there that will do whatever they can to discredit any real investigation into UFO's and any alien presence. Is it becasue they are maybe close to the truth or is it that they dont want the masses of people jumping on the band wagon and make it a huge issue for the Government?

If the Government has had contact from Aliens do you think it would be wise to have some "disclosure"? There are alot of people out there in the world that this could do more harm to than good

Not expecting direct answers from you danx, just throwing these things out there

Well, as I see it I am quite disappointed myself that evolution of proof has decreased instead of increased.

Due to technology hiding and covering up has been made so easy for the ones that do not want things known.

The most interesting thing to me is how things can be debunked so easily but yet everything is out there for your knowledge right there in the open.

They (Elitist) planned well.

What is strange to me is truths can be told and they just aren't believed because they aren't what you know or have been taught.

There is so much life (aliens) here, in this Solar System and the Universe that if you knew it you would feel stupid that you have denied.

I am part of, I've been there, done that.... but to cheap to get the tee-shirt.

Originally posted by The Hobo
Is it becasue they are maybe close to the truth or is it that they dont want the masses of people jumping on the band wagon and make it a huge issue for the Government?

Both, perhaps, I would speculate. I'm sure it started out as a fear of people jumping on the band wagon and possibly starting a truth inertia thing, as Bill Hicks once put it regarding the JFK assassination in one of his jokes.

I'm sure as more research is done and more documents (through FOIA especially) come to light, I have no doubt they are fearful of just how close to the truth some might come, no matter what the truth actually is and how much the Government knows.

Because, and as I stated before, we can't reject the possibility that the Government doesn't know much. But even if they don't know much or anything at all, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't like that to be known either.

If the Government has had contact from Aliens do you think it would be wise to have some "disclosure"? There are alot of people out there in the world that this could do more harm to than good

That's a million dollar question heh

We obviously have no way of knowing at this point. But, if for example, aliens are somewhat malevolent and the Government doesn't disclose the information out of fear of mass panic or something to that effect, it still means that eventually aliens will attack us. So, by not disclosing they are only delaying the unavoidable.

Faced with that scenario, yeah it sucks to hear that aliens exist and might be malevolent and attack us, but supporting a cover-up for those reasons would be, in my opinion, the equivalent of supporting doctors keeping from their patients the diagnosis of cancer or something like that. It could eventually kill you, or you just might die from other reasons before the cancer kills you.
But unless the doctor discloses the information the patient can't make an informed decision on his future. I bet that when faced with that diagnosis, some people break down and I don't doubt that some have and will commit suicide. But some decide to fight it, and win, as more often people do, as our knowledge and research of the disease also improves.

On the other hand, aliens might not be malevolent at all. And faced with the scenario that aliens exist, and that the human race has a need for exploration and knowledge, it would only be a matter of time before we would find out about them.

Some might argue "that may be, but we are not ready for it now". I always thought of it this similar to the situation of someone finding out he or she will be a parent. Most people are not ready, some will never be. But most of the people, even the ones that thought they weren't ready, will gradually get the hang of it, because humans have a great capacity to adapt and learn. But that's just life, you aren't always ready for what life throws at you. In fact, most of the time we weren't. Are we going to stop living in fear of what might come next will be too much for us to handle?

To me it all comes down to, and no matter what the objectives of an alien race might be, we are entitled to the information.
And even if it's not being disclosed for "our protection", do we really want to be treated like children? Have a select few decide for rest of us what is for us to know and what we can or cannot take? Ultimately I think it would be would be in our interest to have the information disclosed.

Even if not only just for us to f*ing grow up and take responsibility has a society and species, and die on our feet protecting our planet fighting off an aggressive advanced alien civilization!

Not expecting direct answers from you danx, just throwing these things out there

Just gave you mine Hopefully other people will feel like participating (in a serious and civil manner) and give us their opinions and views.