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Aliens, the Boogeyman, and Creatures That Go Bump In the Night

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posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by danx
 


excellent post, sir!!

If aliens are "evil" and the Government are aware of this then why havent they tried to kick our ass already? Or is it another "conspiracy" that maybe the government has brokered a deal with them to allow them to use the general population as "lab rats" and turn a blind eye to their being here?

On the flip side if they are "good" aliens and are investing their knowledge with us why not disclose this at least. I'm sure if people knew some alien visitors were here and are currently helping cure cancer, aids, maybe even world hunger people would be alot more acceptable to there being other life forms in the universe and also it would take away the bad image of the government covering these things up all these years.

I gotta go ctach a train, again thanks for the excellent replies and I look forward to catching up with this thread again tomorrow. Lets just hope it stays civil




posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by The Hobo
If aliens are "evil" and the Government are aware of this then why havent they tried to kick our ass already? Or is it another "conspiracy" that maybe the government has brokered a deal with them to allow them to use the general population as "lab rats" and turn a blind eye to their being here?

Another million dollar question.

Personally I don't believe they are evil, or at least, don't have the desire to take our planet for example. Otherwise I think they would have long ago destroyed or enslaved us all.

Regarding the conspiracy theories that 'we' might have brokered a deal, it doesn't really work if they are evil, because if they are, why broker a deal if they have means to take everything by force?

Yeah, we don't know much do we? heh



On the flip side if they are "good" aliens and are investing their knowledge with us why not disclose this at least.

As I stated before, and this is only my personal belief, the hypothesis that accounts and somewhat addresses all these questions more efficiently in my opinion, is that they are worried about the repercussions of this disclosure in our society and social structures.



I gotta go ctach a train, again thanks for the excellent replies and I look forward to catching up with this thread again tomorrow. Lets just hope it stays civil

Take care, and thanks for the kind words. Here's to civil discussion



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by an0maly33
i don't have anything to add, i just wanted to commend this thread on its civility and abundance of calm yet somewhat opposing discourse (with a small exception.) this is the stuff that ATS was meant to be.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by an0maly33]


Thanks for that. I see that as a compliment very much. I never began this thread with an intent behind smacking around UFO'ers and their beliefs.

Name calling, backstabbing, topic de-railing should be left out of a civil discussion.

I am a Conflict De-Escalation Expert, not by ATS's recognition, but because I claim that since I know from training I have received from various jobs as well as intelligence to back it up. I've de-escalated psychotic people because of the calm nature and choice of words in previous jobs where it was a necessity

As I originally stated and will keep stating, I will not believe 100% in UFO's or Aliens, until I see them personally firsthand. That's just who I am.

I am not however claiming there isn't a potential for it, as humankind is ignorant and arrogant to believe that we are the only intelligent and sentient life in this Galaxy and Universe. I believe inter-dimensional travel as well as wormhole technology are potentially possible.



[edit on 9-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I have to ask a question here for a moment, but you claim to have seen a "UFO" take off at Mach 30, and I find that difficult to believe, not you seeing it, as you could have, but unless your specifically trained to understand it, I have doubt that you know how to gauge Mach 30 speed, since the speeds for Mach levels are not even past I believe Mach 8 for actually gauging the speeds.

Other than that I have problem with your post and reply on this thread. Glad you at least remained civil in this discussion on Aliens and UFO's.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by danx
 


I know I have to call into question the benevolence or "Evil Empire" of aliens, if they do in fact exist, as lot of different books claim they are here to raise the concious level of all humanity, while a lot of other claim they are here to enslave mankind under a new hierachy of servitude through slave labor to their own ends. I read a lot of science fiction as well as various other topics, but there's a mixed message being signalled out to the world, to call into question whether aliens are "good" or "bad", again, if they do in fact exist.

This is of course, still Divide and Conquer, whether through actual means of being introduced on purpose through design, or by accident through stupidity, it is one of those causative actions that makes people fight amongst themselves, as in believer vs non-believer, Democrat vs Republican, United States of America vs Russia, etc, etc, ad nasuem. Is this something being caused on purpose or is it accidental, some of us will never know, while only those in the know will know and most likely will hide it forever.

Divide and Conquer, one of the greatest weapons of anyone in power.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by The Hobo
 


This is of course the eternal question, are they good, or are they evil.

Notice how that is consistantly and constantly flip-flopped, so we are never seeing the whole truth, but maybe we are seeing a combination of the truth after all.

What if we are being shown "both sides of the coin" simultaneously so to speak, in that they want us to see them as benevolent, while they have evil intentions, similar to how Government works. On the opposite side of that, maybe the Government is in on it, and is trying to portray the alien as the way I just outlined, and they are in fact benevolent, and the Government wants us to question that benevolence by thinking the "Greys" may in fact be here as our conquerers, because the Government does not want us out of their control.

The government could be in collusion with the aliens to begin with, if they exist, the aliens that is, I'm not questioning whether the Government exists, as a vast amount of sci-fi books, television shows, and other media sources always seem to portray aliens as in cahoots with our Government somehow, and it is portrayed as always being in order to enslave us somehow.

Of course, the entire process could be a major sham to begin with, to make you see "aliens" everywhere, meaning "illegal aliens" as well as the "hybrid-aliens" and be one big scam to get you to hate the "illegal aliens" stealing your jobs, plus buy hybrid-electric vehicles because they are currently blaming "Global Warming" on those nasty carbon-monoxide exuding engines, and through decades and decades of pre-planned and staged conditioning, plus utilizing H.A.A.R.P. to melt the Polar Ice Caps without our knowledge, they now got you suckered into the "guilt" of destroying your own planet, and then through enacting a Congressional Law, you have so many years to comply with buying the same same "hybrid" cars, which automatically have OnStar as well as the "wonderful" XM-Radio/Sirius Radio, in order to track your location everywhere you go.

I guess we will never know, or will we?



[edit on 10-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I know I have to call into question the benevolence or "Evil Empire" of aliens, if they do in fact exist, as lot of different books claim they are here to raise the concious level of all humanity, while a lot of other claim they are here to enslave mankind under a new hierachy of servitude through slave labor to their own ends. I read a lot of science fiction as well as various other topics, but there's a mixed message being signalled out to the world, to call into question whether aliens are "good" or "bad", again, if they do in fact exist.

Assuming they exist and have been and are visiting Earth, we have to take into consideration that there could be more than one species/group/civilization of aliens.

If that was the case I'm sure it would be very unlikely they would all have the same agenda or interests and motivations.

That could explain the apparently conflicting experiences. Or, when faced with such an incredible experience (abductions for example), people simply react and feel differently about the whole thing and that's why we have so many conflicting opinions on the aliens' morality. I don't know.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by danx

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I know I have to call into question the benevolence or "Evil Empire" of aliens, if they do in fact exist, as lot of different books claim they are here to raise the concious level of all humanity, while a lot of other claim they are here to enslave mankind under a new hierachy of servitude through slave labor to their own ends. I read a lot of science fiction as well as various other topics, but there's a mixed message being signalled out to the world, to call into question whether aliens are "good" or "bad", again, if they do in fact exist.

Assuming they exist and have been and are visiting Earth, we have to take into consideration that there could be more than one species/group/civilization of aliens.

If that was the case I'm sure it would be very unlikely they would all have the same agenda or interests and motivations.

That could explain the apparently conflicting experiences. Or, when faced with such an incredible experience (abductions for example), people simply react and feel differently about the whole thing and that's why we have so many conflicting opinions on the aliens' morality. I don't know.


I have heard this theory as well, as it's not just on the X-Files show but in sci-fi book ranging from the Archons vs Annunaki, to Martians vs Plutonians. Let us also not forget, that according to those aliens, if they do in fact exist, we would be aliens to them as well.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 10:15 AM
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This is kind of interesting because I've always had a nagging suspicion that the government has some knowledge of an alien threat but are actively hiding it from us.

I don't personally believe 99% of the 'UFO' sightings that end up on this site, but there are one or two incidents over the last 60 years that can't be easily explained by the tech we had available at the time. Gazrok wrote an amazing thread on his research into the Roswell event, and one thing at least was very clear, the military did a lot of lying and backpeddaling on that story. The Kecksberg incident is another example of a government cover-up and only last week I saw that NASA is claiming all the files from that are lost.

Then we have the cold war arms buildup (enough weaponry to destroy the world many times over) and the 'starfish' tests of nuclear weapons in space, rumored killer satellites armed with nuclear missiles, ground based missile defense shields, Ronald Reagan's "Starwars" Project, HAARP, and probably a dozen more defense projects that we'll never ever hear about. Then of course there was Reagan's UN speech where he hinted that the world could be facing a threat from outside that would bring us all together...

Could there have really been an alien craft destroyed in 1947 and might they be pissed about it? How long would it take to travel here from our nearest neighboring solar system? About 60 years?



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by mythatsabigprobe
 


Great post. It's interesting that many theories that abound about just the supposed Roswell incident of 1947, since the Government admitted, and then turned right back around and denied the event. It could be that it was sheer stupidity that it was ever admitted to, and even more sheer stupidity to then deny it.

There is of course also Project Bluebook to consider, and whether it was real, or just a large "alien" marketing survey, so to speak, to see how they public might react to the Government taking in claims of UFO sightings.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
It could be that it was sheer stupidity that it was ever admitted to, and even more sheer stupidity to then deny it.

If we go down that road, let's analyze the level of 'stupidity' involved in the Roswell case.

First, we have to assume that Maj. Jesse Marcel, the head intelligence officer at Roswell Army Airfield, couldn't identify a balloon and thought the debris in Mac Brazel's ranch was of a "flying disc", to the point of going home with pieces of it and waking up his wife and son at 2am to show it to them.

Then we have General (Colonel at the time) Blanchard, commanding officer of the 509th Bomb Wing at Roswell, in the act of what can only be described as the biggest PR blunder of all times, dictates a press release to Public Information Officer Walter Haut to inform the media and therefor the public that they had recovered a "flying disc".

General Ramey then orders Blanchard to have the debris flown to Fort Worth. At Fort Worth, Maj. Jesse Marcel and Gen. Ramey held a press conference in Ramey's office to show everyone that it was in fact a balloon, and display various (ordinary) materials.

When the case was apparently closed, what happens next? This seemingly normal balloon debris is flown to Wright-Patterson Field, where curiously enough, the Foreign Technology Division operated.

I think what really is 'stupid' is this whole thing is to assume that what happened in Roswell was just a balloon and the result of incredible levels of 'stupidity' of heads of intelligence, Colonels and Generals.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by danx
 


I know the "stupidity" comment should have been left out of this, sorry about that. I guess it just seems that Marcel would have known better than to release that information. I would have known better than releasing that information without requesting permission first since it's a potentially major announcement, especially right after WWII ending, the sense of Government/Military would have still been at a high at the time.

Yes, I realize that comment I just made is odd, being that it's coming from someone posting on a "conspiracy theorist" website. What most people do not realize, is that if I worked for these agencies, you would never have heard about anything I have to say here, I wouldn't have logged in for the first time ever.

I have read The Day After Roswell and have even done a book review on there, if you look at the names on there, I'm sure you can figure out which one I am. Here's the review creatively edited because I have other details there I'm not sharing with ATS.


My Amazon Review of "The Day After Roswell"

I think that Phillips J Corso is a brilliant man & it takes a great man to step forward to try to smash the cover-ups of our corrupt government. I've talked to a few people about this book, as they were the ones who lead me to read it in the first place. There is more to this book than just what's between the covers, you've got to learn to read between the lines. The book alludes to the Space Shuttle Challenger was blown up by aliens, & also there are codes in the book, if you know numerology.

There's one particular phrase in this book, a quote from David Crockett AKA Davy Crockett(Yes, THAT Davy Crockett...think the Alamo) that says "Be sure you're right, then go ahead" which if you take the number corresponding to each letter & add them together, they make a grid coordinate on the map in the Florida Keys. Forbidden Key is a spot where there have been many UFO sightings in the past 50 years.

My friend actually traveled to it, & kayaked around the island & said there were forbidden entry, government warning signs all around it & said when he got back to the boat dock, there was a strange man photographing him. Strange....is there something being covered up at Forbidden Key? Guess you can go for yourself.


I have read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it, but basically for the cover-up aspects of the book, more so than anything related to aliens and UFO's. I just find it very odd that if any of the events that are supposed to have taken place, from Roswell to Marcell's announcement, to Corso's book, in all of these, nothing has been corroborated ever with the public.

I guess you can say, while I respect the level of effort these things are covered up, you would think that something, anything, would have slipped out more so than it has to date.


[edit on 11-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I know the "stupidity" comment should have been left out of this, sorry about that.

Nah, nothing to worry about. I'm just saying that if were going to attribute all the things that happened regarding Roswell to stupidity (read mistakes), there were TOO MANY stupid people for me to believe.



I guess it just seems that Marcel would have known better than to release that information.

It was Col. Blanchard that ordered Walter Haut to release the press release saying they had recovered a "flying disc".



I would have known better than releasing that information without requesting permission first since it's a potentially major announcement

I'm with you on that one. That's why I don't believe the press release was a mistake. It was perhaps a tactical mistake, letting everyone know what you had recovered, and when they realized what had been done and the consequences, they retracted it.



I have read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it, but basically for the cover-up aspects of the book, more so than anything related to aliens and UFO's. I just find it very odd that if any of the events that are supposed to have taken place, from Roswell to Marcell's announcement, to Corso's book, in all of these, nothing has been corroborated ever with the public.

I believe something extra-terrestrial crashed in Roswell, and I don't even doubt Corso was somewhat involved, doesn't mean I agree or believe with everything it's written on his book, because, well, I don't.

Bill Birnes co-wrote the book (publisher of UFO Magazine and of UFO Hunters fame) and I've said this about him on a post before:

I'm not sure where I heard it - on The Paracast perhaps - but someone (Jim Moseley?) was questioning Bill Birnes influence on The Day After Roswell. And left the impression that Birnes might have exaggerated or guided Corso's story to places where Corso didn't personally agree with it.

I can't speak about that and Corso isn't around anymore to answer about it, but one thing I can speak of is one episode of the UFO Hunters where Bill Birnes says to a man that he must be an alien hybrid because UFOs are visiting him and he has a strange blood disease.

Even one of his partners in the show is stunned and is visibly upset with Bill that he has said such an outlandish claim, without any evidence whatsoever.


So we have (at least, I do) to take that into consideration as well.



I guess you can say, while I respect the level of effort these things are covered up, you would think that something, anything, would have slipped out more so than it has to date.

Many things have slipped out. Many documents, many people claiming to have worked on or seen things while working for the Government/Military. How do we know some of those things aren't legit? I personally believe some are.

All the people doing the cover-up have to do is muddy the waters, a little disinfo here and there, and let the stigma of the UFO field, the kooks, and the egos of the 'researchers' do the rest, and everything falls apart. There's basically no safe ground.

Even our beloved ATS here, has come under attack not long ago by someone who "had been in the UFO field" for many years and has a considerable number of fans. Personally, attacks that are completely unfounded and only have only demonstrated that the person in question is not to be trusted. Add the fact that said person worked for the CIA in the past, and has always made pretty outlandish claims throughout his 'career' related to UFOs and Government conspiracies, and I think you know what my conclusions are.

Anyway, yeah. They just have to muddy the waters enough so no one can be sure of anything so when there are leaks, nothing concrete ever comes out of it.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by danx
 


I agree with a lot of what you've outlined there, but to a degree, not totally. I know how the Government works in that all it takes is to discredit someone through some skewed perspective, and or dredging up their past somehow, but it doesn't work everytime, which is why we do get some of the information that is released. I had a friend who suggested if I was to ever work for the D.E.A. as Law Enforcement, that they would be in fear that they could not keep me in their control, because they have to blackmail people in order to keep them under lock and key, because to work for that organization, you have to be half dirty to begin with, and I would admit to or blow their blackmail out of the water.

There's a lot more to the process then just muddying the waters though, in that they have to create a sense of plausible deniability, mixed with the people's own disbelief and or mistrust of the Government, as well as playing the Divide and Conquer ruse against the people, in that if you keep the mass populace divided amongst themselves, playing black against white, North angainst South, Americans verses the "illegal aliens", Republicans verses Democrats, you constantly have a way and or tool to manipulate the populace, and or swing their belief systems about like a giant yo-yo and screw them in the head worse.

I have studied the Art of War as well as Divide and Conquer all of my life, learning the tactics of war, every conceivable tactic known to man, because it is an area of interest I sought out. So, to play off the "Earthling verses the Alien from outerspace" isn't much of a stretch for these idiots to plot and manipulate the mass populace from the understanding I have come to know.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I agree with a lot of what you've outlined there, but to a degree, not totally. I know how the Government works in that all it takes is to discredit someone through some skewed perspective, and or dredging up their past somehow, but it doesn't work everytime, which is why we do get some of the information that is released.

I agree with that and everything else you said, but I think you should not forget one thing: we are talking about (possible) aliens. It's not exactly the same thing has some other conspiracies (Iran-Contra, Watergate) and every other thing the Government covers up or has covered-up. This one is, from the start, very difficult for some people even to accept it.

The other cases, and all you've mentioned, are all mundane human things. Aliens visiting planet Earth, not so much. I'm sure this factor helps to keep the lid on things.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by danx
 


I'll apologize for not paying much attention to this thread, I was wrapped up in a debate on the Debate Forum. Right now, I'm waiting for it to be judged to know if I won it or not.

Government cover-ups are far easier for Me to believe in, then aliens and UFO's. Back to the topic at hand though.



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