Female Survivalists., page 12


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 16 times


reply posted on 14-9-2008 @ 11:14 AM by riley
Originally posted by orangetom1999
LOL LOL LOL Riley,

I'm sorry again....

I need to stop doing that ...apologizing.

Especially when you obviously don't mean it.
I did not realize that you are still up down under. But then again..I don't actually know what time it is over there. It is 12"57 in the AM here in Virginia.

LOL LOL...Contraception is also a concern of males too. I cannot imagine what you are thinking here. It is not a female only prerogative.

Women have to survive with the consequences if they get pregnant.. many women would have to go it alone. Any advice on how a woman can avoid rape, conception or any advice on how to guarentee a healthy pregnancy and delivery during sitX? Any advice on how to take care of newborns? What to do to prevent infection afterwards?

Oh thats right.. such concerns are merely "female insecurities".
I am grown up Riley. I understand that "Rape" is a concern of women. It is not my primary concern...good times or bad. It will not also be a woman's primary concern in a survival or situation X scenario. Day to day survival and for the family or group will be the primary concern.

Well.. if that is the case perhaps you can contribute to a thread about day to day of family and GROUP survival and not one about FEMALE survival. You seem hell bent on making it about what YOU think is important and what YOU think should be a main concern and any attempt to talk about other womens issues is derailed. I am all for learning how to get food from the wild.. (and know quite a bit) but I want to learn about this stuff as well.
As I clearly stated..I have only so much time for a woman's insecurities. Men's insecurities too. Good times and bad.

yet you have expended so much time trying to shut me up on the issue of rape..
As you can see by my above this one post I Have no objection to a woman protecting herself. I think this is just good prudence or judgement.

Even though your other posts have dismissed it as being an unimportant "insecurity". It doesn't really matter what your last post says as you've attacked me yet again for trying to discuss how women can protect themselves.
I don't have a lot of time or respect for women or men who just "discuss" it.
Sooner or later you have to "do" not discuss.

It is a DISCUSSION board.
How do you think most prudent women will handle it in situation X or TEOTWAWKI? Discuss it more?? This is not a selfish, self indulgent, or melodramatic question.

More veiled insults.
No one has been able to discuss it.. you have tried your best to derail the subject (of rape and contraception) everytime we made progress. I do not think you are even interested in discussing FEMALE survival. It's almost as though you are trying to sabotage it; as soon as I mentioned contraception and rape you went on the attack.

this is an important thread and I do not want it closed due to drama. If you do not think rape and contraception are important enough subjects to discuss.. opt out of the disscussion altogether.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by riley]


reply posted on 14-9-2008 @ 04:24 PM by White Chapel
Originally posted by hildar
reply to post by ATS4dummies


I would like to see you live in the state of Maine with 3 kids in Diapers, no running water, No electric, no phone, and its 3 miles to the closest stream and you have to walk it to carry the water for baths for 5 each day for the family. You also have to cook outside over an open fire all summer. And cook on a wood stove all winter long. for 2 years. Believe me I did it and I am a woman. Women can live that way. And I also Built that house so dont say women cant build or do anything.

Hilda


Sorry, I'm late to the thread and I'm sure this is off-topic and most will take it as insulting but this post really caught me eye. While this is impressive as a party stunt, if it's true it seems really silly. Why didn't you build the house closer to water? You say family of 5 but 3 kids, so there must be a partner in there somewhere, what where they doing the whole time while you were doing all the work? And why would you have 3 kids in diapers in this situation? It seems irresponsible...


reply posted on 14-9-2008 @ 09:53 PM by argentus
Has been far too long since I've wandered back into this thread. Lots of good information, and....... little sub-studies in the way people think. Should we consider this a microcosm of the world view? I wonder....

There's a link I've wandered to from time to time... don't be put off by the name: "End times report". It contains some of the most basic ideals and other more esoteric scenarios as well www.endtimesreport.com...

m'Bride and I recently went through at Cat 2 Hurricane Gustav; it allowed us to tweak our systems, and we had discussions about perspective as it relates to even more long-lasting situations and survival in general.

I think the accumulation of skills is something that we can practice and become proficient at NOW, before they are needed. It can be fun, and even though we live on a dinky island, we occasionally camp out, and that also helps us tweak the system. Most often the insightful changes come from my darlin', who is less versed in many of the classic survival skills, and yet she is not stuck in the paradigms of thinking.

I think one of the most important facets of survival skills is to learn how to treat your own injuries and other medical maladies. Right now, most of us have access to at least fair health care. I think it's one of the most pressing issues in a long-term situation. How can we ever learn enough to replace our current level of health care? Well, most of us can't, but what we CAN learn can raise us well above the level of our ancestors who didn't have anywhere near the informational accessibility that we do today.

I have taken classes in emergency suturing, and have had occasion to suture myself. No, I did not cause the wounds intentionally It was necessary, given the situation, and it was ugly work, but I learned.

I think we could all benefit from exploring natural medicines. Some things are "old wives tales", but even within this group, much of the knowledge has merit. Get to know your local plants and their potential uses. Learn how to make alcohol. Learn how to refine salt, if you're by the sea.

There is camping, which challenges our skills and minds, and that is training for some modes of survival, but what it really boils down to to me is learning how to fill the day in a way that augments our benficial existance. It's a difficult thing to accurately practice, given that most of us have jobs and bills and all the trappings of modern society.

Agriculture is going to make it or break it for some. If you have real and benficial skills, you will be a boon to your group, and it doesn't matter at that point your gender.

I've really had my eyes opened here today regarding how some folks view rape and other violent assaults. Rape and other assault cannot be tolerated in a group dynamic that wishes to survive. If the only difference between a group and other animals is the firepower and clothes, then there is a group that is destined for failure.

Thanks for this thread, OP>.... I'm so glad you didn't close it

[edit on 15-9-2008 by argentus]


reply posted on 14-9-2008 @ 10:01 PM by argentus
reply to post by Chewlip


Just a thought, Chewlip.......... would you consider it beneficial to break down survival into a series of components?

For example, my emphasis has often been on water acquisition, filtering, storage.

What if you started sub-topics -- sort of a hierarchy of needs -- and we could all contribute our ideas.

Emergency shelter transisitioning into permanent shelter? That's one of the things about survivalism..... I sometimes think that many of us tend to want to view it as a short-term situation (how much X do I need to make it 3 months). What if it's not? What if it's merely a facet of an entire area loosing the ability to produce electricity for an extended period of time?

Must be late. That didn't make a lot of sense

Cheers

[edit on 14-9-2008 by argentus]


reply posted on 14-9-2008 @ 11:19 PM by orangetom1999
reply to post by argentus


Ahh..just got off work here in Olde Virginia.

Argentus,

I don't condone violence against women...nor rape . I also don't condone violence against men.

However....

I've really had my eyes opened here today regarding how some folks view rape and other violent assaults.


You do realize that statistically most violence is male on male yes?? Yet you hardly hear a whimper about it in social behavior studies or in the media. Only violence against women is discouraged. What does this tell you about the value of men in a social structure ..how about in situation X or TEOTWAWKI. Will there be more violence against men or against women? Hardly a whimper about this in any survival forums. Women or men's forums. Do men hold less value in any given social structure at any given time??

When you see in a given forum...that all some women have to talk about is their insecurities surrounding their sex and sexuality...it is a real let down...and I mean good times as well as bad.

It is just that to me there is more to survival in certain situations than sexuality. Yet you realize that for some it is the very best that they can do.
And don't one dare question this value system or you are uncivilized/unreasonable....even callous.

Continuing on...your hierarchy of needs is a interesting concept.

Also your question of how much X does one need for three months. Pretty reasonable. Sounds like you might have storage space for much goods.

Electricity would be a tough one as most peoples are so accustomed to it and they take it for granted that it will always be there. So many today have made no preparations for being without. This showed up quickly after Hurricane Isabel around here...the number of people who could prepare for kick off or tee off time but not to be without electricity.

I was asking someone about a laptop which is somehow reinforced or padded...for rugged field use. You know ..campers, the military etc. I was curious about this in a survival situation. Also some kind of solar system to keep the battery charged.

Hierarchy of survival needs...that sounds interesting. Can you elaborate on this concept? The breakdown??

Thanks,
Orangetom


reply posted on 15-9-2008 @ 06:10 AM by argentus
reply to post by orangetom1999


Tom, I think all violence is discouraged. I'd guess that much of what I've seen or have become aware of IS male on male, but I would also submit to you that a great deal of violence -- particulary domestic violence -- still to this day goes unreported. My wife and I met at a social services agency, where she was working, and I acquired a part-time job to help get me through school. I became acutely aware of family dynamics within some families. That was more than 20 years ago.

I think facets of this play a part in the ideas of survivalism, but aren't necessarily the focus of this thread. It shouldn't be a contest, Tom, which gender is most at risk. I believe as I stated above that a group that coalesces for the purpose of improving their own survival cannot tolerate rape of any of its members and hope to remain cohesive -- otherwise they are merely a mob.

The term "hierarchy of needs" is borrowed from Maslow, but I think it is applicable within context of survival skills as well. Perhaps it's just how my brain works, but I think of adressing the most pressing needs first, and I tend to organize our supplies in that way... For example, the water treatment/filtration supplies are stored with hand tools and firemaking/cooking equipment. Water, shelter, food.... I could bend your ear for a coupla pages about just water, but that wouldn't make it necessarily the right approach for you or anyone else, just for our situation. Longer term stuff, such as our supply of open-pollinated seeds, as less accessible in our supplies, and we've learned how to preserve seeds for replanting.

Skills matter, and many skills can be learned and practiced. We don't get to know the nature of what event(s) might challenge us, so we don't know if it's a stone age existance, or just the loss of electricity. It seems like a good bet to take the time, enjoy the process, acquire basic skills, such as the ability to make fire and to continue to do so for as long as one needs to. Along those lines, there are tools that help, and there is knowledge that doesn't stop working after a few years.

I used to scoff at the notion of keeping a laptop or computer running, however the past few years of hurricanes here, a web-linked cell phone has been a real boon to us, for communication and storm data. I put that in the same category (in my mind) as a generator -- a tool that has the potential of improving one's situation in the short term of an event.

CHEWLIPS, thank you for indulging my responses here. If I can contribute to your thread in a way that's consistent with your goals, I'll be happy to, but I have no desire to give the impression that I want to commandeer it, or have all the answers. I've learned much more in your thread than I've taught, I'm certain.

Cheers


reply posted on 18-9-2008 @ 09:03 AM by orangetom1999
reply to post by argentus



Argentus,
I am not debating the point that rape is to be tolerated. I don't know where people get that impression. I am debating the point that it or pregnancy is not the "Main thing" in Situation X or TEOTWAWKI. In support of this concept I offer this link from the weather channel.

www.weather.com...

There are various video links here concerning a recent Situation X occurrence down in Texas. Just click on the various video links and see if Pregnancy or rape is the "Main Thing" among these survivors..male or female. It is pretty obvious to me that it is not the "Main Thing" on the minds of these people.

I would not recommend anyone to begin or occupy a career in Rape in the state of Texas..especially after a natural disaster like the recent event down there. These Texicans can be very civil until you cross a certain threshold in conduct. A career criminal in anything down there would be very blessed if the constabulary was the first to catch up with them after a disaster like this one. Male and female down there they know how to use a rope and a gun if they feel warranted.
Texas is not the liberal foolishness of New Orleans. They would draw the line quickly down there and not be so tolerant. And Texas ...is not the only state like this. Lots of states still remain in this nation where people have a background of being pretty independent and self sufficient. Some of us still describe such people as having a "Hard Bark."

I am also, in a situation X scenario, reminded of that city or town in Kansas where about 90/95 percent of the town was destroyed by a tornado about a year ago. I did not note that in that circumstance ..rape and pregnancy was the "main thing." Did you?? As I recall the town was named Greensboro or Greensburg.

I am not talking about tolerating Rape. I don't know why some would think so?? Do you??

OH..by the way...as a result of your post..I am considering a web linked cell phone and laptop. I am also investigating the possibility of one of these military type "Tough book" laptops...I think they are called. This will have to be weighed out in consideration of the newer type cell phones which already have the web, e-mail and other features already built into them. The main problem with this type of set up is that many of the cell phone towers and links will go down if the storm is of sufficient severity.

Also as an adaptation to an already working mobile and base amateur radio station....there is the concept of a terminal node controller ( TNC) to hook up ones short and long range radios to a computer and transmit data in addition to analog..or voice. This too I will be checking out.

Riley,

and I for one will NOT be bullied into staying silent on the subject.


Who is trying to bully you into remaining silent on the subject. The concept here is that it is not the "Main Thing."
Someone not agreeing with you is bullying and attempting to shut you up?? I must ask myself by your tack if you are accustomed to martyrdom and victimization techniques/emotions...to stifle others thoughts or to default through.
This is a discusion/debate forum.

Thanks,
Orangetom


reply posted on 18-9-2008 @ 10:10 AM by riley
How many times do you want me to repeat myself? Here is a reminder:

Originally posted by riley
Never said it was the only important concern.. but you seem to have been against ANY discussion of it.


..and now you are doing it yet again. Are you trying to discuss womens survival issues? No.. you have launched yet another attack and then accused me (via insult) of victimising myself even though you could have just dropped it.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Riley,

and I for one will NOT be bullied into staying silent on the subject.


Who is trying to bully you into remaining silent on the subject. The concept here is that it is not the "Main Thing."
Someone not agreeing with you is bullying and attempting to shut you up?? I must ask myself by your tack if you are accustomed to martyrdom and victimization techniques/emotions...to stifle others thoughts or to default through.
This is a discusion/debate forum.

Thanks,
Orangetom

How many times have I tried to explain myself and have been met with insults? "victimization techinques"? "Victim dictim"? "martyrdom"? Argueing over semantics is not "a debate". Nice try but that pretence is getting old.

Clearly you do not WANT us talking about rape and contraception.. you've basically questioned whether its even worth talking about. I and others have ALREADY told you why it is an important issue yet continue to attack me based on the usage of the term "main thing" and you have repetively put me in the position where I have had to justify why I feel rape is a main thing for women to worry about in situation x.

Reread this:

Never said it was the only important concern.. but you seem to have been against ANY discussion of it.

You kept attacking me for saying "the main thing".. I clarified this silly triviality you have become obsessed with.. and what did you do? attacked again.

Rape is a (or the) main thing (or concern.. can't be using the wrong words here..) women have to worry about especially in a survival situation. If you have a problem with this issue being discussed and you feel it is somehow offtopic.. don't read it or report it. Your insistance to pick the same fight with me over and over again just makes it look like you are sabotaging the discussion. I believe you do not WANT us talking about rape and contraception.. and yes I still believe you are trying to bully me to shut me up on the subject.

Please move on orangetom.. you are wasting bandwidth argueing a point that does not need to be argued.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by riley]


reply posted on 19-9-2008 @ 05:26 AM by magicmushroom
Dear Riley, Its sad to say that in any times of war, civil uprising, revolution or any other society destabling factor women on the whole have been and will be the target for sexual attacks. How one protects themselves from such attacks depends on the given situation and personal circumstances.

Just as in a place of work there are risks and controls are in place to reduce or remove those risks the same applies in one's private life. Obviously traveling alone or in passing through dangerous areas one should seek to minimise the risk. Travel guides usually offer good advice for the lone traveller and how to protect yourself.

Persons may want to carry some form of defence or have training in self defence. The thing to bear in mind here is the laws in any country that you either reside in or travel to. I think good advice would be for people to undergo some form of training as agressive defence can actually make matters worse say than a passive defence, it all depends on the situation.

If we are looking at a worse case scenario there are a number of things you could do. As an example Russian soldiers invading Germany ww2 commited acts of wholesale rape against the female population. One of the measures that mothers used to protect their daughters or teenage children was to dress them up as boys or elderly ladies. On some occasions the ruse worked but not all occasions.

The other method they used was to try and stay in large groups which in the case of Berlin worked to a degree because of the bombing etc. people were in large groups. Again it all depends on the situation your in. Other than that its about having all the gear you need to survive. When planning for worse case situations many people overlook the fact that medical suppiles and knowledge are just as important as weapons and food.

In my kit I am building up a good range of various drugs and medication and as most of us are not doctors plenty of medical books. You may want to add to yours items such as condoms which can be used for other things than the intended use. Anti pregnacy pills etc. could be stocked but as with food but remember that you will have to rotate any stock or supplies that you have. Medical supplies have much shorter shelf life's than say canned goods.


reply posted on 20-9-2008 @ 01:50 PM by riley
Originally posted by magicmushroom
Just as in a place of work there are risks and controls are in place to reduce or remove those risks the same applies in one's private life. Obviously traveling alone or in passing through dangerous areas one should seek to minimise the risk. Travel guides usually offer good advice for the lone traveller and how to protect yourself.

I have also noticed that the way a person carries themselves can also influence things. Fear is attractive to any hunter.. my cat knows not to run when the dog threatens to chase him.
Persons may want to carry some form of defence or have training in self defence. The thing to bear in mind here is the laws in any country that you either reside in or travel to. I think good advice would be for people to undergo some form of training as agressive defence can actually make matters worse say than a passive defence, it all depends on the situation.

I think all girls should be taught self defence. Having a decent guared dog is also wise idea. I agree aggressive defence is risky as it will escalate a situation. Passive defence can also be risky as the attacker may consider it a sign of weakness and so feel more confident. I think it depends on the types of attack.. I have found that when I am being followed a direct confrontation will make them back down and lose their nerve. It is a risky thing to do but it's alot safer than waiting for them to attack when I'm in the shadows.
One of the measures that mothers used to protect their daughters or teenage children was to dress them up as boys or elderly ladies. On some occasions the ruse worked but not all occasions.

I did not know about that.. in rwanda (?) when the rapes camps were happening mothers used to smear manua on their daughters in an attempt to avoid having them taken to be raped. Not sure if it worked.
When planning for worse case situations many people overlook the fact that medical suppiles and knowledge are just as important as weapons and food.

three days without water.. three weeks without food I think? The biggest threat people face is other people.
In my kit I am building up a good range of various drugs and medication and as most of us are not doctors plenty of medical books. You may want to add to yours items such as condoms which can be used for other things than the intended use. Anti pregnacy pills etc. could be stocked but as with food but remember that you will have to rotate any stock or supplies that you have. Medical supplies have much shorter shelf life's than say canned goods.

Thats why I am think growing herbs is a good idea.. most people wouldn't have a clue what they can be used for so it wouldn't get stripped in sit x. I am starting to learn about homeopathy but I am reluctent to really "trust" it as alot of the information is conflicting. Maybe I just need to update my books.

thanks for the tips.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by riley]


reply posted on 20-9-2008 @ 02:47 PM by whitewave
I have written to RapeX twice now asking where their product can be purchased. No response. I'm not sure it really exists except as a picture on a website. Little disconcerting but improvisation works just as well.

In speaking to some Vietnamese women who endured the Vietnam war, one of the methods they reported using was to get small chunks of broken glass, adhere it to a surface (canvas, thick papers, etc.), roll it loosely like a funnel and insert. Any "intruders" would get permanently mangled. Frankly, I'm surprised any victims of rape would survive to tell that story. Seems to me they would have been killed immediately but who knows? Might buy you a few seconds to save yourself. Sometimes that's all you need. Since RapeX is not responding, may have to get creative.

I agree with Argentus who said that other people will be our biggest threat. If left alone (big if and not at all likely), most of us could figure out how to survive, keep warm and clothed, make some sort of shelter from the elements, etc. It gets difficult when you have people hunting you, chasing you, trying to round you up to put in a camp. That's when one needs to be in full survival mode and pull out all the stops for their own resourcefulness. If you mess up in the first scenario (left alone), you can just try, try again at your own pace. If you mess up in the 2nd scenario, most likely you die.

I would be interested in hearing about the various methods of water filtration. I only know of 2. Also, something on how to set up perimeter alerts. Having people "stand watch" is all good and fine but if they are seen before they see the threat, they're just a human size flag that says "shoot me first". Perimeter alerts/defenses would go a long way, I think, towards procuring/proving security for the women (and everyone else) in a group.
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