Female Survivalists.

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posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot
*sigh*. Your feminism has affected you in ways that you do not even realize, and it's sad in a way. You truly think that males are all one and the same. There are inherent differences in good men, and bad men. You need to learn this, before it gets you killed in a sit-x environment.

..."if they think they can have you"? Honey, in a sit-x situation, unless you've got the firepower, IT WON'T BE UP TO YOU *IF* THEY HAVE YOU OR NOT.

Men don't like to share their partners. No, honey. GOOD MEN don't like to share their partners. To a bad man, you are just something that is owned, like a car or a motorcycle. Motorcycle gangs are notorious for this. A woman rates WAY below their motorcycles. They often will not give a crap about someone screwing their "old ladies", but they sure as heck will kill you if you touch their chopper. The only thing that "buddying up" with the biggest, meanest guy will ensure, is that he does you first. And by "first", I mean just that. There will be a big, long line of them behind him, usually based on status of the group. If you think otherwise, you've never been around (or talked to someone who has been around) truly anti-social men. This is where the phrase "pulling a train" comes from, because the guys in line look like a long train behind the first guy.

Your strategy would be successful in a group of guys where MOST of the men are good, and a few are bad. It would be entirely unsuccessful in any other make up. This is even compounded by the fact that younger men are AWARE of women using their sexuality as a means of control over men. They even have a phrase for it: "Bros before Hos".

You REALLY think your "sistahs" are gonna give a crap if you get raped in Sit-x? Know what they are going to say? "Better her than me!".



a smart/cunning woman would turn them against each other and yes as i said many times women will never band together i am not sure why but thats common characteristic, they will be envious of each other.


Originally posted by sir_chancealot
The women on here don't even SEE, let alone understand, the laughable dichotomy they espouse here. Let me see if I get this right.... You are too scared to go into the "woods" with a group of survivalist men, when the CHECKS, CONTROLS, AND PUNISHMENTS OF MODERN CIVILIZATION ARE IN PLACE; WHEN MEN ARE STILL HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND PUNISHED BY OTHER MEN; WHEN MOST MEN'S BEHAVIOR IS STILL BEING RESTRAINED BY INTERNAL OR EXTERNAL CONTROLS, yet you are going to be a "survivalist", an amazonian she-ra when men are no longer held accountable to anyone but themselves? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

If you are smart and have prepared, or are very lucky, you will end up in a group of men willing to fight, kill, and die to protect you. If you are unlucky (even if you are smart), you will end up in a group of men whom you will service (both in and out of bed), willingly or no.

As a man who has the psychological mindset to fight, defend, and even kill for those under my protection, whom do you think I am going to fight and defend: Those women who claim "grrl power!" and "equality", or those who behave in what a manner that has always been defined as "feminine"? I know who my biological nature screams out to protect, and it ain't the "women can do anything a man can do" crowd.

There is a HUGE liability in today's woman that goes unacknowledged. A liability that was not possessed in such large quantities by the women of yore. That liability is the fact that today's women let their emotions control them, rather than them controlling their emotions. Granted, women have always been the more emotional of the sexes. In it's proper place, this emotional nature was GOOD for society, and exherted a pacifying influence on the male populace.


I dont think anyone would be mentioning girl power in sit x, things would change fast and many women would crumple as soon as the SHTF and will take the role of the damsel in distress easily, others might disguise themselves as men





Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Given that the women today, who ACTUALLY HAVE A CHOICE, choose to mate with bad men (and this is now born out by scientific studies, not just anectdotal evidence), how much more in sit x? Here, I am speaking as a group, not any individual woman. How many times do you think a group of survivalists will allow women to choose their own mates, if they continually choose men who are detrimental to the group? How long do you think they will be allowed "equality" if their choices (taken as a whole) harm that group?
Look to past history for the answer to that question. "Equality" in today's meaning won't last long. "Equality" today to women (again, as a group) means "I get to do the same things as men, but I shouldn't have to suffer the same consequences as men". In a sit-x situation, women are going to find that they don't want true equality any more.


dude can't you just let them have their fantasy of being warriors, its not like sit x will ever happen any time soon. unfortunately i have to agree with you even though you arent totally right as history also shown that women can be dominant members of a group surprising as it may seem. and we shouldn't underestimate their sexual powers over men, actually there are accounts of women leading pirates and tribes, so i can pull a veto on that one. but as u said women today are much different and without a doubt its going to be tough, however we might never know until the day sit x happens for real.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by DuneKnight]

[edit on 9-7-2008 by DuneKnight]

[edit on 9-7-2008 by DuneKnight]




posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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I think it might be time to close this thread.

It keeps getting hijacked by machismo, and has gone completely off-topic.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Chewlip
I think it might be time to close this thread.

It keeps getting hijacked by machismo, and has gone completely off-topic.


Thank you for proving my point about emotions that control a woman being a negative drawback in a survival situation.
You FEEL that the tread has gone off-topic because it has "machismo". (BTW, you don't even use that term in it's definitive sense of the word)

I fully supported a woman learning everything she could regarding survivalism. I even pointed out that a group that uses a woman physician for "household duties" are being short-sited.

I just pointed out the truth that in a true sit-x, a woman better ALSO learn what feminine behaviors kept those "cave men" willing to kill and die to protect them, or they wouldn't last long in the group. I even pointed out a couple of specific behaviors that, while tolerated today, would NOT be tolerated in a survival situation.

I say again.... If women are going to do so well in a true survival situation, why should they be afraid to go into the woods with a bunch of guy survivalists WHEN EVERY CONCEIVABLE THING IS IN PLACE TO RESTRICT THESE GUY'S ACTIONS TOWARDS HER? If she can't do that NOW, with both civil and criminal law behind her, how in God's name is she going to "survive" in a true lawless environment?

I'm also advocating women LEARN THE SKILLS THAT WILL KEEP THEM ALIVE AND VALUABLE TO MEN. Do you think even BAD men will kick a woman out of a group if she can take the worst crap people can scrounge up, and make a decent meal out of it? A woman (or even man for that matter) who can cook and do laundry is going to be valued no matter the group, good or bad. How much value will a chick lawyer bring to a group? What exactly is that "marketing rep" going to do for the group?

The very first thing ANY woman should do in preparing herself for a sit-x type situation is sit down and prepare herself for the "cultural shock" she is going to be in for, and what she can do to mitigate that shock. History has shown, time and again, that when societies break down (any society, in any time frame) WOMEN BECOME COMMODOTIES, as someone pointed out earlier. The easiest thing a woman can do to ensure her survival is to become a valuable commodity to a group of men.

Whenever a man reads about a survival situation, he goes "What can I bring to the group?". Read even the comments here: very few women have stated "Here's what I can bring to the group", but more than a few have said "Here's how I can manipulate the men to get what I want". I'm telling you, in a survival situation, THAT ATTITUDE WILL GET YOU KILLED (either outright, or by exile). Do you REALLY think that the men, as a group, are going to give a crap that your husband/boyfriend/lover smacked the crap out of you, when they are worrying about how to fend off raids, or where to look to kill some animal to eat, to avoid group starvation?


Realize this, miss. If a true sit-x happens, whenever one group of men fights another group, men are going to die. After 6 months of this, there's going to be a LOT less men than women. It's not going to be a 1:1 ratio, which is approximately what it is now in civilized countries. It's going to be closer to 2 or 3 women for every man. I believe the bible even says that in the last days, 6 or 7 women will latch onto a man saying (paraphrased) "We will keep our own names, we will pay our own way, only marry US (notice the plural, and not the singular). In such a situation, who do you think the guy is going to choose: the female CEO, or the farm girl from Idaho?

Without modern society's buffers, even a woman who offers nothing more than sexual services is going to be on a limited time frame. After all, there are always younger and better looking women who will come along. A woman who can cook meals fit for a king on the simplest things, ah, now there's a woman that will be valued more than a hot piece of tail.

Yes, women should learn everything they can about survivalist thinking. But don't neglect those things your fore-mothers KNEW to be to their advantage to know, simply because it would be "politically incorrect".

In a true sit-x situation, the "machismo cave men" are going to survive. History proves this. Which women do you think they are going to keep alive: "cave women", or the feminists?



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by DuneKnight
...even though you arent totally right as history also shown that women can be dominant members of a group surprising as it may seem. and we shouldn't underestimate their sexual powers over men, actually there are accounts of women leading pirates and tribes, so i can pull a veto on that one. ...


Think about what you have said now......


Of the, literally, TENS OR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of gangs, groups, tribes, and societies throughout human history, you can only name a handful of women leaders? What does this tell you about their viability as leaders in general?

Can A FEW women lead? Sure. But only a handful in the entire known history of the human race. This alone should put an end to the fantasy that a woman is going to be another "Xena, Warrior Princess".



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by Chewlip
 


im not discouraging you, we are just talking about the reality of it all, to gain a bigger better perspective on what women can do in a situation like this. im not in denial here like you, i know what im in for as i know that i aint an alpha male and i was never in survival mode before so i can only hope that i would surprise myself. whatever happens, im sure i'll be defenseless as experience has not taught me how to live harsh like this, all im sure of is that i'll die hard. as a woman you should ask yourself whether you can really in all seriousness handle a situation like this and remember that women wont be your friends in a time like this thats for sure.

another thing is that none here have considered is that these formed groups could consist of families or married couples. thus couples would be reluctant to join 'bad gangs' and would be more humane, however i should stress that if u are alone the wife could see u as one that is trying to steal her husband-protector and would turn against u.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by sir_chancealot
 



I said "I think" not "I feel".

I asked for this thread to be closed because the point of it wasn't to argue what women would do in a sitx scenario. You are going off topic, and I just can't really be bothered to argue with someone as arrogant and narrow minded as you seem to be, because it's pointless, and a waste of my energy.

Maybe everything you say is true (I don't believe so) but, with regards to the actual topic of the thread, there is absolutely no harm in women, or men, or children, or anyone, trying to improve their survival skills.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Chewlip
 


you put ur self in this situation by implying that men are bad to be around in a situation x or a 'reenactment' of it. you also suggested that women can do the same thing that men survivalists do but only with other women.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by DuneKnight
reply to post by Chewlip
 


you put ur self in this situation by implying that men are bad to be around in a situation x or a 'reenactment' of it. you also suggested that women can do the same thing that men survivalists do but only with other women.


Nope, for the nth thine, I never proposed an all female group. Rather a mixed group, which means females AND males, instead of one female in an all male group. To be honest, having read the last few posts, I think it's even wiser for more than one woman to be in a group, if we are faced with some of the attitudes of a few of the male posters on this thread.

[edit on 9/7/08 by Chewlip]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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1. this discussion is about female survivalists.
2. never argue with women. they are never wrong (not always right but never, ever wrong).

that said, stick to the topic at had (female survivalists).

thank you.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Chewlip
To be honest, having read the last few posts, I think it's even wiser for more than one woman to be in a group, if we are faced with some of the attitudes of a few of the male posters on this thread.


Don't let it bug you.
Some guys get carried away on their ego and testosterone when it comes to the idea of reverting back to cavemen..



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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[humor]
Hello Potential Female Survivalists!

I live in southern california and will gladly outfit a team of healthy, beautiful blonde, red-head and brunette women when the SHTF. I can provide you with weapons and OTJ training in their operation and effective use. As well as other survival skills.
[/humor]

-Euclid



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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Ah, I see the ''Me Tarzan You Jane'' neanderthals have been hijacking this thread again.

As Chewlip has pointed out on more than a few occasions, it is NOT about forming an all girl survivalist group or about debating a 'battle of the sexes' either. *snip*
This is about females wanting to learn about Survival and various skills that go along with it. So if you have some important information or advice to impart, please do so,

Carry On Ladies.



(removed vulgar comment)


[edit on 9-7-2008 by Jbird]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 07:52 PM
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OK, serious stuff now, ladies.

Here is a list of things you will need ina survival situation. I'll provide links to sites that sell this type of equipment and I am in no way affiliated with them. I have just bought from them and they are reliable. If this violates any board rules just let me know and I'll remove them:

1. Get a hand gun and a good sturdy thigh holster. I would suggest that if you have any male friends that have handguns ask them to take you to a firing range and show you how to use it. It would be good if he or she has more than one caliber available for you to test out so that you can feel what the recoil is like and how they fit in your hand. You should get the largest caliber that you can use effectively at close range. Close range would be within 20 yards and still hit the target. You will need at least 50 rounds of this to carry on your LBV/LBE. I use all SpecOps brand tac systems for LBV. It's some of the best stuff. www.tacticalgear.net...

2. Get a good rifle. I'm partial to my AR15. It is the same caliber as that used by the US military and is does not have a lot of recoil. The ammunition is light and you should be able to carry at least 250 rounds easily. I usually carry about 500 rounds on my tactical LBV. LBV = load bearing vest. It is also sometimes call an LBE which is "load bearing equipment". www.tacticalgear.net...

3. Get a good LBE/LBV - there are a lot of types available. You can usually go to military surplus and find some good deals or at gun shows. It should be modular so that you can attach what is called assault pack or large backpack. Usually the assault pack and backpack are sold as one complete unit. The MOLLE system is such a set of load bearing equipment. www.tacticalgear.net...

4. Buy a small, lightweight, portable water filtration system. This is the water filter I use. It is light and strong and in combination with water purification tablets will make just about any of the nastiest looking water drinkable. uscav.com...

5. Buy a small military medical kit. I have the M3 medic kit stuffed into my backpack. It has all the essentials: uscav.com...

6. Buy a camelbak. This takes the place of the old fashioned canteens. It is capable of hold 70 to 100 ounces of water and usually integrates with the LBE/LBV so that it is carried on the back. It has a tube that you can drink from so you don't have to fiddle with canteen. Camelbak makes one that is usable with military NBC pretection equipment. NBC is an acronym for nuclear-biological-chemical protection equipment. I use this camelbak bladder: uscav.com... ; you will need to make sure to get the right model as this one is make to attach to the M95 gas mask.

7. By a military issue or military style gas mask. The mask should meet military standards. Buy additional filters and hoods. A good mask will meet military standards and have the capability to integrate with the NBC Camelbak water bladder so that you will be able to drink water without taking off the gas mask. I use the M95 military issue gas mask. Unfortunately it may be difficult to get now due to the wars. So I won't give any links.

8. Buy military NBC protection suits, I said suits as in multiple. keep them sealed and unopened. Buy a used one to practice with, they are usually available at military surplus stores. Each suit is usually only good for about 24 hours use once opened from their vacuum sealed packs.

9. Buy small survival food rations that you will put into the backpack. 3 days worth is enough. You will need to live off the land and the 3 days worth of food is only meant as backup while you forage for food in the wild. I have 4 of these type of dehydrated food in my backpack. And granola bars www.rei.com...

10. Buy a small survival kit to put into the backpack. It should contain fishing hooks, fishing line, duct tape, knife sharpening stone, and a myriad of other little items that will come in handy during a survival situation. Fire starting materials like flint, magnesium, etc. You should also have a small mililtary style portable cooking stove that uses white gas. Here is link to the exact stove I have. It is small, lightweight, easy on fuel consumption and cooks stuff quickly. www.sportsmansguide.com...

11. You will also need a sleeping bag and small 1 man (woman) pup tent. This again should be military issue or surplus or at least meet the standards for military resiliency. It should be camoflauged and not a bright color like red, pink, etc. I use this sleeping it is the best I've ever used. It is small, light, compresses to an amazing small size, smaller than a football. www.rangerjoes.com...

12. Buy BDUs (battle dress uniform). You should have one to wear and another in the backpack. 3 to 4 pairs of good socks and T-shirts.

13. All the feminine "stuff (tampons, etc)" you need should also be in the backpack and stored there when not in use so that you don't need to pack anything.

14. BUY COMBAT BOOTS - do not go to REI and buy those cheaply made colorful fancy ankle hiking boots. You will need military style boots. They are tough and will last a long time. Break them in before you need to walk 30 miles in them. I suggest the Matterhorn ATD boots. They are comfortable and well made in the USA. The ATD is an acronym for arctic-to-desert. They keep the feet dry and warm in arctic temperatures and dry and cool is desert temperatures. They come in womens sizes.

15. Train with the equipment. Go camping with a group of friends and use the equipment in the field so that you know how it works and what it feels like to carry all that stuff on your back. It should be a secluded wilderness area; far from the city.

I have bought from the following sources and they are reliable and have all the stuff I have listed above and lots more.

uscav.com
cheaperthandirt.com
sportsmansguide.com
rangerjoes.com

I hope that helps. And if any of you would like to discuss this please feel free to U2U me and I will assist. I didn't cover training as that is not something that can be done effectively over the internet.

-Euclid

[edit on 9-7-2008 by euclid]



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 04:37 AM
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reply to post by euclid
 



Though euclid has made some useful suggestions, it will depend on what you percieve to be your likely Situation X and also 1 & 2 are not options in many places outside of the US.

Personally, I would dispense with the Camo gear and go for more olive greens and other subdued colours. You can always have Camo gear in storage for the more extreme civil breakdown/military takeover Situation X's.

I would also not carry a Camelback but would go for 2 waterbottles and the filter systems instead. Camelbacks are not so easy to fill in the field and you are separating your water source from your person in a fast bug-out, just my opinion. Immediate survival kits/gear should be on your person at all times - ideally on a belt.

A lot is going to depend on what type of Situation X you perceive is likely. The extreme weather types are the most likely wherever you live. You may just be a person that likes to go long distance hiking or mountaineering in which case your survival gear will reflect that. I personally would stay away from the Military Type gear (At least the Camo stuff) as it attracts more attention than is needed or is neccessary

Remember a lot of this gear is personal choice. Just try to have at least 2 methods of providing a fire, signalling and of water procurement and of course a knife.

Further Reading:-

McCann, J., D. (2005) Build the Perfect Survival Kit, Krause Publications, USA. ISBN:978-0-87349-967-5

Price $12.99 or about £9.00. - Available from Amazon.co



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 04:48 AM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
If you are planning to get a meeting of all-female survivalists together, I would actually use more caution. How do you know the people you are talking to are actually females until you get out there?



how do you know the thread starter is a woman? does it even matter?

there have been previous threads and imho, the best you could do as a survivalist is to associate based on interests rather than cultural or biological differences.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


do you expect all surviving men camping in one location during sitX, while women are doing the same a few hundred miles away? sounds hilarious to me. go with people you know.

edit: link

[edit on 2008.7.10 by Long Lance]



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Long Lance
 



Re-read the thread. I'm bored of saying that now.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by robertfenix
 


I agree with you, and I'm a feminist and a liberal! Science and history prove what you are saying is right, but do you have to be such a dick about it?

On topic: I am always trying to make sure that I will be a commodity to a group. Presently am learning about using native plants for healing and food. It is my hope that I would never need a group, though. I feel it is easier to survive in a very small group or even by yourself.

STAY AWAY from people!

My survival plan is to stick to my man and assist him as best I can to keep us alive. Our main tactic for that is to stay away from people. We both feel we can hide and or evade untill we can hoof it away from large population centres. This is our number one priority - get out of the Southeast of England. A large group would just slow us down, especially if we waited too long to leave.

That being said I will definitley look into going to the Gathering event - Thanks for the link Wotan!

Just because our plan calls for just us two doesn't mean we don't like to meet like minded people to share tips and friendship!



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by DuneKnight
...even though you arent totally right as history also shown that women can be dominant members of a group surprising as it may seem. and we shouldn't underestimate their sexual powers over men, actually there are accounts of women leading pirates and tribes, so i can pull a veto on that one. ...


Think about what you have said now......


Of the, literally, TENS OR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of gangs, groups, tribes, and societies throughout human history, you can only name a handful of women leaders? What does this tell you about their viability as leaders in general?

Can A FEW women lead? Sure. But only a handful in the entire known history of the human race. This alone should put an end to the fantasy that a woman is going to be another "Xena, Warrior Princess".


It tells us, that society has rules according to gender, and as long as there are males in power they will do everything they can to keep their ego intact and females chained to the kitchen.
Meanwhile the men couldn't cook a dinner or wash their own clothes to save their life.
Women can do everything. We can be homemakers, or career oriented or both.
To stay on topic, a survival situation is no different.
Why should a women act like the scared weak thing that needs to be protected? What if she finds herself alone without a male "Protector"?
There is nothing wrong with learning the skills in which to defend herself, and take care of herself and her children.
I'm shocked at the way this thread has turned.
I would rather be in a group of all women than group together with any men who share the thoughts of some of the posts here.
Chewlip, I commend you for starting this thread. It's too bad that even our best attempts can't always deny ignorance.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by Merigold
 


That being said I will definitley look into going to the Gathering event - Thanks for the link Wotan!

No problem.

I am hoping to go myself to that event with the missus in tow - if she can get a day off. We shall be only going for a day, not the weekend - May try that next year.

regards
Wotan



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by euclid
 



Though euclid has made some useful suggestions, it will depend on what you percieve to be your likely Situation X and also 1 & 2 are not options in many places outside of the US.

Personally, I would dispense with the Camo gear and go for more olive greens and other subdued colours. You can always have Camo gear in storage for the more extreme civil breakdown/military takeover Situation X's.

I would also not carry a Camelback but would go for 2 waterbottles and the filter systems instead. Camelbacks are not so easy to fill in the field and you are separating your water source from your person in a fast bug-out, just my opinion. Immediate survival kits/gear should be on your person at all times - ideally on a belt.

A lot is going to depend on what type of Situation X you perceive is likely. The extreme weather types are the most likely wherever you live. You may just be a person that likes to go long distance hiking or mountaineering in which case your survival gear will reflect that. I personally would stay away from the Military Type gear (At least the Camo stuff) as it attracts more attention than is needed or is neccessary

Remember a lot of this gear is personal choice. Just try to have at least 2 methods of providing a fire, signalling and of water procurement and of course a knife.

Further Reading:-

McCann, J., D. (2005) Build the Perfect Survival Kit, Krause Publications, USA. ISBN:978-0-87349-967-5

Price $12.99 or about £9.00. - Available from Amazon.co


Well now that is part of the problem.... perception. The fact is that the gear I mentioned should be readily available.

Two water bottles - they are large, clunky, not easily stored or carried. The camelbak fits into and is part of your survival gear, specifically the backpack. It goes where you go. The water filter, which is also stored with your gear makes refilling the camelbak easy. It is not difficult to refill a camelbak anyways.

Camoflauge is the best route to go if you are in a wilderness setting as it breaks-up the outline/pattern of the human physical form. In any survival situation you "DO NOT WANT TO BE SEEN BECAUSE THAT MORE THAN LIKELY MEANS YOUR DEATH".

The personal perceptions of what any individual "believes is likely" to happen is irrelevant to the question of what it takes to survive in a combat situation. A combat situation is a survival situation and vice versa; whether the situation involves the wilderness/natural elements, urban environments, wild animals, jackbooted thugs or other people who want to kill you to take what little you have; you will find your self in a life or death situation and must make a point to have the appropriate tools necessary at the appropriate time. Not following these important points will cause death.

Limiting your available resources as you suggest will doom you and anyone who follows your naive advice to failure/death. The Boy Scouts have a saying, "I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it".

Weekend hikes are not survival; that is a pass-time, hobby, fun. Your survival gear is a separate and exclusive set of equipment that is meant to facilitate it's nomen, i.e. "survival".

Now about weapons, never take a knife to a gun fight. There is no one to blame except the people of your nation for allowing them to strip your populace of the means to protect your individual and collective lives. It should be apparant now how important that capability and right is; there is no one to blame but your collective "selves" for allowing that to happen.

I do not mean to sound overly critical of you, your nation or women (and in many cases men) in general because I am attempting to help.... but if one wants to survive it will require a paradigm shift in the way one "thinks". It can be a tough road to change/shift that modality of thought, especially for SOME women.

-Euclid





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