Female Survivalists.

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posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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So do you think as women, we need men to survive?

The thought of admitting that makes me cringe somewhat, as I have been quite independent and never relied on a man for anything.

I never did "girl scouts"...not even sure if they teach camping tricks or if all they do is train girls how to bake and sell cookies.

The fact is, unless sitx targets only men, women will suffer the hit harder than men. Our numbers will be lower, and with time, will continue to decrease, as many of us are not trained how to survive.

I agree with the posts, that the idea of being the sole woman hanging around with groups of men, is not really an idea i am comfortable with.

Do you think we stand a chance on our own? or do we have to just swallow our pride a bit and really do what a true survivalist does, aim to survive no matter the circumstance.




posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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Yes you will need a protector, male of female especially if vulnerable and another see's it.
But other factors like the empathy any nearby men have for women and so on comes into play.
I was thinking about this yesterday.
If I was a bloke, living with a bunch of survivalist guys would be kinda cool for the first week or so. If we all got on then it would be cool for a while longer.
But as the days crept into weeks I'd start to prefer and miss having a womans company and touch about as well.
Now don't misunderstand I mean that in a nice way, not like in a rapacious and predatory evil mindset.
Women can be a good yin to mans yang.
But think about, no distractions aside from the day to day survival needs. Things will get a lot more basic. I think the bad dudes out there will take that and instantly revert to the old and dark ways of: If I see her first and can take her, I will.
Some guys I work with have this mindset. Its not 'out-there-obvious' but sometimes the clues and signs can present themselves.

So yeah unless you have a good family group to stick with you will need a protector in dark times like SITX



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by SciDoc
 


I think there was a film, about this, where a woman was being protected, as she was the only pregant woman alive or something...
--
My point is if sitx happens, it is usually the level headed guys that will be prepared, and will realise that there cannot be alot of women survivalist's, making you quite important. I Can't imagaine a woman being abused in my group as i would not let it happen.
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Like me and a HUGE amount of other men, we have the Instinct to protect women and children in danger. I know it sounds silly to most women but it is true.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by SciDoc
 


Sorry
SciDoc...but your public education thinking is showing here.


So do you think as women, we need men to survive?

The thought of admitting that makes me cringe somewhat, as I have been quite independent and never relied on a man for anything.


I am going to translate this to read...independent as long as the system is preset up and prestaged for you. Like a store where all the pieces and products are put in place for you at the expense and risk of others.
You know...you can just pick up a phone or keyboard and direct others to do and take the risk out of life for you.
Don't worry ..a lot of males today find themselves in the same situation. Take the cell phones and video games away and ...duh!!!??

Also don't feel bad..I never did boy scouts either.

Now this really shows public education thinking and value systems....this can be translated as a television education.


The fact is, unless sitx targets only men, women will suffer the hit harder than men.


You do realize do you not...that men or males tend to die off at younger ages and from a variety of hazards both in good times as well as bad times...yes??? I am wondering how you justify the concept that men have it better than women...in either scenario. Entitlement?? Victimization??
Risks...in both good times and bad...between the sexes are thought of and carried out socially to very much different standards.....with different beliefs and different expectations...and while claiming such nonsense as equality.l


I agree with the posts, that the idea of being the sole woman hanging around with groups of men, is not really an idea i am comfortable with.


I agree with the basic outline of your quote above. One of my worst nightmares is to be stuck on a deserted island with about 400 women who mostly know how to shop and work telephone keypads/computer keyboards and have been raised on a steady diet of the View, Oprah, Entitlement mentality and Victimization. What an awful thought. This also pretty much describes the mentality of today's body politic.
Same thing with a bunch of men who know mostly how to watch television and drink beer...play video games. Not much use for them either. They too would be high maintenance.


Do you think we stand a chance on our own? or do we have to just swallow our pride a bit and really do what a true survivalist does, aim to survive no matter the circumstance.


Do you understand the concept of how much pride the average male must swallow in order to bring home the bacon and beans to his family?? Good times as well as bad?? Is this called survival or is it actually in our enlightened times called social expectations and beliefs...a default setting that can be taken for granted?? Assumed without any recognition or thinking about the risks involved??
You might want to reconsider how much of our pride, male and female, is actually worth it and how much is artificial..based on artificial environments and artificial social values/thinking/beliefs/expectations. YOU know....like Disneyland??
How much pride in situation X or TEOTWAWEKI how much pride do you think males will have to swallow in order to survive....for themselves and their families. How much risk will males be able to default through on the backs of others...particularly on the females??

Those people down in Texas after the latest Hurricane...how much pride do you think they are swallowing..male and female? Do you think they are spending a lot of time watching the View, Oprah, etc etc?? Reading House Beautiful, Southern Living, Cosmopolitan, Red book, Elle?? Or do you think they are having to toughen up...fast??

WatchRider,


I think the bad dudes out there will take that and instantly rever]t to the old and dark ways of: If I see her first and can take her, I will.


Bad dudes are just that..bad dudes. This scenario you post is a good way for them to get shot or hung...literally. And there are lots of people out here in this country who would carry this out on bad dudes...where there is no law and order. People left to their own devices are quite capable of establishing law and order ...very well. Bad dudes get the message very rapidly and find more fertile fields...easier pickings. People have families and loved ones and quickly learn the risks of suffering ...bad dudes.

Monkeybus,

You need to think this through carefully.


My point is if sitx happens, it is usually the level headed guys that will be prepared, and will realise that there cannot be a lot of women survivalists, making you quite important. I Can't imagaine a woman being abused in my group as i would not let it happen.
c

You need to think this through carefully. As Whitewave has many times and succinctly stated...women are always in the survival mode. They are just far more subtle than men at this business. Do not underestimate a woman's ability to survive. Most of the men reading this will not fully comprehend my statement. Most of the women reading this will get it right away.

In case you miss to what I am alluding....as myself and my friend have compared notes. He stated to me one day...about dating different women..."these women come over here and look at me and my property and mostly see what they can get for themselves and their children. They do not look to see what they need to bring me as a career."
This to them is "survival." Understand?? Only a man can be this naturally stupid. Most women are smarter and more subtle in this thinking than are men ...by far. They have to be to get someone else to take and assume risk for them...that they are not willing to undertake for themselves. This is a womans subtle way of "hunting and gathering." Men do not have any monopoly on "hunting and gathering."
Do not underestimate a woman's willingness to survive and apply her natural survival skills...over a man's natural stupidity. The two are not equal..by far.
Do you think that most of today's women are so stupid she will take risk with her life and her children's lives for a man who is higher maintenance than herself?? Most women are not that stupid...but a man can easily be.
Do not underestimate a woman's survival ability...for herself and children.
Subtlety is a very powerful tool properly used.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
reply to post by SciDoc
 


You do realize do you not...that men or males tend to die off at younger ages and from a variety of hazards both in good times as well as bad times...yes???

You do understand that the majority of Darwin awards go to men, right? It would never even enter into the minds of most women to do some of the incredibly, unnecessarily risky stunts that men will do on a dare. And God love 'em for it. Where would our advances and progresses have come from if not for all the willing idiots that say, "i wonder what will happen if i.....?"

You might want to reconsider how much of our pride, male and female, is actually worth it and how much is artificial..based on artificial environments and artificial social values/thinking/beliefs/expectations.

Pride will let you starve to death. I have long ago relieved myself of the burden of pride. (Not the same thing as self-esteem, mind you).


My point is if sitx happens, it is usually the level headed guys that will be prepared, and will realise that there cannot be a lot of women survivalists, making you quite important. I Can't imagaine a woman being abused in my group as i would not let it happen.


Thank you for this. I don't know how true it is but it made me feel better just knowing there are still some guys willing to say it. I'll still keep my gun loaded, if you don't mind, but it's good to know I won't be the only one loading ammo.

As Whitewave has many times and succinctly stated...women are always in the survival mode.

Now hold on just a minute, O.T. I hope you're not suggesting that I mean women are parasites, manipulating their hosts in order to survive? My feathers are thoroughly ruffled here. Please clarify what you think I meant by that statement.

What I meant when I said that was, imho, women are frequently kept back from promotions, opportunities (normally taken for granted by males) and many other necessities of life like jobs, etc. If opportunities are denied due to gender then ones very survival depends on finding whatever will work to obtain those opportunities. I often see it played out as backstabbing, conniving, gossip, etc. Certainly not my preferred method but I see it in action (by males and females). I try to survive by proving my merit and by being indispensible. (May account for why I'm not more financially successful).

Do not underestimate a woman's willingness to survive and apply her natural survival skills...over a man's natural stupidity. The two are not equal..by far.

What kind of women (or men for that matter) are you hanging out with, OT? I don't care if a leech is male or female; if they're bleeding me dry, they gotta go.

Do you think that most of today's women are so stupid she will take risk with her life and her children's lives for a man who is higher maintenance than herself?

I admit, I've been this stupid. Would've been totally worth it if it hadn't been so one-sided.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Men are naturally stupid?

I think this is a very stupid statement to make, and i think you think too highly of yourself.

I Know many women like you, the kind that manipulate men throught their entire lifes> and end up with their own House, car, income, without getting off their bums, and going to work.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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Orange tom makes some reasonable points, but the stupid reference she made reference to is pure hokum and plain wrong.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:02 PM
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For those who don't know, Orangetom is a male. I can't speak for him, of course, but what occurs to me when I read his statements speaking of men being stupid is that he has probably been kind and helpful to some female (or a few) only to be taken advantage of. Haven't we all been taken advantage of by some "taker" of the opposite sex? (or same sex if you swing that way.)

It's my impression that he only wants to educate the male of the species to prevent them from experiencing that "used" feeling. He's a good guy that tries to keep (mainly) women from a faulty "give me , get me, take me, buy me" attitude so prevalent today and to make men aware of the game being played (usually against men).

If I totally missed the point, OT, feel free to correct any mis-statements I may have made.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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Alrighty then.

Well, I read some valid points, but truthfully I lost interest in the response due to the inherent lack of respect for my education. You don't know me, nor do I know you. So please if you want to attack my "public education" and respond in a condescending tone, at least know what I do and not judge me based on one post you read.

Secondly, I can not talk for all women. I am just talking about myself...I know what I am capable of, what drives me, what I can live with, my tolerances etc. I am also aware that many women don't participate in this forum (ATS) nor do they really think about SitX. It is genderist of me to say that...sure. But it is a reality. Sure men and women alike for the most part do not think about SitX...I am sure if a poll was taken, you would find more males who have thought about SitX, and perhaps even prepared for it, more so than women. I don't believe that is sexist or due to me being narrow-minded. Show me evidence to the contrary, and I will gladly take back what I say. If what I say is true, then clearly there are more men who have the means to survive-both physically and intellectually, and thus being a female survivalist myself...would I NEED a man to survive? I know for a fact that it would be to my advantage to find a man...but that is just me, other women (and men) may disagree and feel they can wing it alone.



posted on Oct, 4 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


Hello Whitewave,
Hope all is well with you down in Oklahoma. Finally taking a weekend off here. I am burned out. Been catching up on my long procrastinated and overdue jobs around my house.

Yes, I understand that most of the recipients of the Darwin Awards are males. I think a lot of this is due to natural male stupidity...including probably drunkenness and drugs...including to much television/movies...same thing to me here as being on drugs.

In my mind there is another reason in the psyche of women for which they do not naturally gravitate to this kind of award...and that is RISK. While women when properly motivated will take risks...they to not tend toward arbitrary risk taking as do so many males. I think this is simply a female awareness of the physical. Females are not wont to sacrifice their physical beauty in RISK...their calling card...their fallback position, ace in the hand of cards, as are males. They understand the totality of what is at risk here from a female position...far more knowledgeably and intimately than will most males...ever.
I think it is for this reason the female is not wont to undertake such foolishness as a career.
Do I think the male is very foolish in this...yes.?? Hence my severe lack of interest in the gods of sports...the swimsuit edition..Hooters...beer and other drink....and or other artificial trappings of being male.

As you more than others out here know..I am not that interested in taking RISK for females or even males ...who should have prepared for this themselves....but can prepare for tonight's game or television program...shopping experiences...et al.

In like manner I know that you more than most of the women out here on ATS/BTS ..have unburdened or relieved yourself of much of this baggage of pride...wise move Whitewave. And do most certainly keep your gun loaded...I do!! Keep them in the X-ring Whitewave!!
Speaking of the X-ring...hoping to get in some range time this weekend. It is long overdue as a result of the overtime I have been working. Expect I will have more accuracy throwing my AR downrange than shooting it. LOL LOL.



As Whitewave has many times and succinctly stated...women are always in the survival mode.

Now hold on just a minute, O.T. I hope you're not suggesting that I mean women are parasites, manipulating their hosts in order to survive? My feathers are thoroughly ruffled here. Please clarify what you think I meant by that statement.


I recall you making that statement about women being more in the survival mode than males...from here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have had a number of opportunities since that post to have this confirmed. I think about it from that viewpoint you posted with a new and more intense awareness than previously. It opened my eyes to more of the aspect of a woman's natural subtlety as a working tool..from a standpoint of survival.. than prior to you enlightening me. For that I thank you.

Yes, I understand it often gels down to what works for a woman, which is my reason for telling Monkeybus to not discount a woman's natural subtlety as a working tool to get her goals accomplished...by one means or another. Do not overlook this tool in a woman's tool bag. Do not be ignorant of it.
Are all women doing this ..no ..but it is done more often than many males are even aware. Women will catch this in another women faster than a male. And they are not likely to educate most males in this.
I also understand that you survive by your own merits and demerits as do I. No problems with this. I suspect this has often worked to your ire when you detect that others have used shortcuts to "default" through when you have worked hard. I have found the same. I tend to favor more individuality that default settings.

LOL LOL Whitewave..


What kind of women (or men for that matter) are you hanging out with, OT? I don't care if a leech is male or female; if they're bleeding me dry, they gotta go.


Agree...I don't care if a leech is a male or female..not much use for either type of high maintenance persons. There is indeed alot of Wildlife out here...Wildlife in its natural habitat. In some manners it seems to be becoming the norm and acceptable rather than the exception. Not for me thanks.

Monkeybus,


Men are naturally stupid?

I think this is a very stupid statement to make, and i think you think too highly of yourself.

I Know many women like you, the kind that manipulate men throughout their entire lives> and end up with their own House, car, income, without getting off their bums, and going to work.


Yeah..I know some of them too. Don't think much of them..nor do I think much of the men who allowed themselves to come in second place while RISKING first place in labor and goods. These guys are definitely candidates for the Darwin Awards.
I think a lot of guys need formal classes in this kind of survival don't you?? I suspect they don't have a full deck.


If I totally missed the point, OT, feel free to correct any mis-statements I may have made.


No Whitewave you are not far off the point. Pretty much in the X ring here.
For many of these types of women ..it is the only survival skill they know. It is in fact survival to them. Anything else would take real commitment.
In situation X or TEOTWAWKI, I believe they would have less than Zero to offer any group. Males like this..high maintenance..same thing ..no difference.

SciDoc,


The fact is, unless sitx targets only men, women will suffer the hit harder than men. Our numbers will be lower, and with time, will continue to decrease, as many of us are not trained how to survive.


My point here was and is in response to this statement. I know that historically men perish for all kinds of reasons at a much higher rate than do women. And by this I mean far more than just the Darwin
Awards. I do not believe in the dogma and practice of "male disposability and expendability" in times of equality happening.
I do not believe that even in situation X or TEOTWAWKI that the females will perish at a faster rate than the males. This belief of many women and social engineers is educated nonsense. It doesn't even make good nonsense.


So please if you want to attack my "public education"


Public Education, to me in this time and day, has become one of cultivating baser emotions and insecuritys...ie..fear. I often refer to public education as being or having become a television or movie education.

IF you indeed have an education why do you post of such insecurities/fears/victimization in the post quoted above and quite contrary to what history teaches and illustrates. Is there a greater loss of power in this world than the loss of ones life? Who do you really think is going to perish first?? This is not one upmanship..it is life and the record of history.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 4-10-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Oct, 4 2008 @ 03:41 PM
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Greetings and felicitations ladies, With your indulgence I would like to make a comment.

In survivalism there is no place for gender, race, creed or colour, just people with an open mind and a desire to develop and use skills to survive whatever life may throw at us. I found as a troop commander that the girls may not have had the upper body strength of the guys, but they did have better mental facilties under duress. Many of the girls could use a rifle as well as any guy, they could live as miserably in a hedgrow OP as the guys, their organisational capabilities often surpassed the guys. But at the end of the day I picked people I deemed most suitable for the task or job I wanted doing, not by the location of their reproductive organs or how attractive they were. But I selected them cos they were the best to carry out that action. I have seen first hand over the years girls remaining much more focused on repetative tasks than most guys, Seriously this male female crap belongs in the history books. Disagree OK, I once had the chance to watch the Israelis at work , Thier at the time Glolani Brigade had load of women in its ranks, and by christ they easily matched the professionalism of the guys. If you think there is a need to differenciate between survivalists because of gender you are wrong or seriously misguided. Both genders make excellent survivalists. Its a willingness to think and act for yourself, not your gender or your social status or your schooling. Finally learn while you can their are NO experts in survivalism, just folks who have been around longer than others. I have been a survivalist since 1979 and every day i learn sometthing new and useful for my preps.

Yes one gender group can survive TEOTWAWKI, for a generation............. and sadly in the same large scale long term sitx all the hard earned trappings of equality for women will be wiped out, along with the more gentle of the menfolk. They both will have to face the fact that the neanderthals running on testosterone will dominate things for a long time , UNLESS we cooperate to ensure our mutual survival.

One point about men in general being stupid, What do you call women who stat in violent abusive relationships, or the millions of silicone enhanced mallrats who's life exists only to go shopping ? with respect my goldfish is smarter than them. No offence intended to survivalist ladies.

Respects to all.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Northern Raider]

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Northern Raider]



posted on Oct, 4 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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I wish I could inject some Vitamin B6 and Oil of Evening Primrose into this thread


NR ducks behind the pile of ironing he is working through



posted on Oct, 4 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by Northern Raider
 


I agree with much of what you post Northern Raider. There is no place for such in a survival situation. What is needed is people and relationships which can go further than just consumption levels. Including shared RISKS.

The one problem I find with your post is that you are describing peoples with which you have served in the military. This is a totally different enviornment and mindset than what one finds out here among most civilians. By this I mean the focus and dicipline levels to be found out here in a "consumer " oriented economy....where people often and unknowingly define themselves by what they consume or can acquire...not what they know or have about them actual experience. Military peoples who have been around around the world, out in the scrub, in different hardships are cut of a different cloth than most civilians.

As to the Israelis....I have no doubt that it is clearly instilled in them and their training ....if worse come to worse...they have no where to go. It will be a fight to the death. They are taught that their backs are to the wall..no place to go..and taught this clearly from a young age...male and female.
This is not the case with our military...American.
Unlike most Americans ..I know what is the Sampson Option...concerning the Israeli nuclear strategy. I have no illusions about it and what it bodes both for the country of Israel and also America. It is my belief, ready or not, that we are going to find out about this one....shortly.
However ..once again you are describing a people with a different mindset and background in importance/prioritys than most American Civilians.


Its a willingness to think and act for yourself, not your gender or your social status or your schooling. Finally learn while you can their are NO experts in survivalism, just folks who have been around longer than others. I have been a survivalist since 1979 and every day i learn sometthing new and useful for my preps.


Concerning this I agree. Which I why I stated that high maintenance males and females would be useless. Ive been around enough of both in good times. Bad times would be a nightmare among these types.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by SciDoc
Alrighty then.

Well, I read some valid points, but truthfully I lost interest in the response due to the inherent lack of respect for my education. You don't know me, nor do I know you. So please if you want to attack my "public education" and respond in a condescending tone, at least know what I do and not judge me based on one post you read.

Secondly, I can not talk for all women. I am just talking about myself...I know what I am capable of, what drives me, what I can live with, my tolerances etc. I am also aware that many women don't participate in this forum (ATS) nor do they really think about SitX. It is genderist of me to say that...sure. But it is a reality. Sure men and women alike for the most part do not think about SitX...I am sure if a poll was taken, you would find more males who have thought about SitX, and perhaps even prepared for it, more so than women. I don't believe that is sexist or due to me being narrow-minded. Show me evidence to the contrary, and I will gladly take back what I say. If what I say is true, then clearly there are more men who have the means to survive-both physically and intellectually, and thus being a female survivalist myself...would I NEED a man to survive? I know for a fact that it would be to my advantage to find a man...but that is just me, other women (and men) may disagree and feel they can wing it alone.

I wholeheartedly agree with what you say. It's not gernderist or sexist to say more men think about survival. It's been bread into our dna to protect our women and children for thousands of years. But that is not to say women can not survive on their own, it's just not a good idea to try. It's not a good idea in my opinion for anyone to try. That is why i started the thread "surviving the chaos" to open peoples view of the subject of grouping up. As far as needing men to survive, women only need us to propagate the species. If you can find a group of likeminded survivalist women then you have a good chance. Men are not neccesary in a group, and niether are women. My group on the other hand consist' of both.





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