Obama's Patriotism Speech

Originally posted by walkinghomer

I find you calm and insightful. Almost intelligent..not that the other guys aren't. They bring up a lot of points that I agree with as well but I find your reasonings more sound..

ALMOST!!!????

all joking aside, i find its easier for people to relate to something close to home. IE: ATS. The outside world (ignorant people) would take one look at an overview of ATS and say "oh, conspiracy nuts, huh? Weirdo's" and give it no chance.

Despite the fact that ATS promotes intelligent discussion with proof to back it up -therea re still those who take advantage of certain issues, and create a bad image for ATS to those of the external world.

No different than Obama's church.

I really wish people would drop his Church.
It's troubling.

If obama himself had been up there saying those things, then we would be having an entirely different discussion.

Originally posted by sos37
Is the political position that Obama is running for not called "Commander in Chief"? Would or would not that be considered a military position since he has military power? Since he is running for that position don't you agree that he should be saluting the flag out of respect for the military men and women serving?

No, absolutely NOT. The political position is President of the United States. One aspect of that position is CinC in those times the military is called to actual service.

The President of the United States is a civilian position. Civilians do not salute the flag. Civilians are expected to show appropriate respect for the flag, but a salute is for the military.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by sos37

 

I see

So, lets pretend for arguments sake, sos, that you were running for POTUS

now, lets say that steve urkel was your opponent, and one of his lackeys found out that you had been posting here for "10 years" and then pointed out some of the more asinine threads like

"im a space alien, bow down to me earthlings"

and

"the earth is actually flat"

and then twisted all of that to make ATS seem like a rediculous place.

Sure, it'd be easy to do, if you left out all the reasons ATS is a wonderful place, and omit the fact that no matter where you are, there are ignorant people posting ignorant crap that has no relevence to the board its posted in.


It is the same thing. You treat it differently because of your extreme dislike for Obama.

Its a church. A black church.
Just because one man says something, doesnt mean that EVERY PERSON who goes to that church agree's with it.

So you're avoiding the question

do you agree with 100% of everything that the three wisemen say and do?

If so - make sure you dont run for president, because one day, someone will find a way to twist the stories, revamp a few things, omit a few more things, and use ATS against you.

You are still ignoring the fact that Obama made this man his spiritual mentor. Does that NOT tell you that he would in fact pay close attention to what Rev. Wright had to say and MOST LIKELY take what he had to say to heart?

reply to post by sos37


So he is a spiritual mentor. Big deal.

What does religion have to do with being POTUS?

Are you so desperate to find dirt on obama, that you're resorting back to a clinton tactic in attempts to discredit the man?

Do you realize these sort of attacks only strengthen Obama, his supporters, and anyone who's "on the fence" ?

Cmon man

surely you can come up with something better?

I support obama, and i could come up with a hell of a lot better ways to "not vote" for him than this

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic

Originally posted by sos37
Is the political position that Obama is running for not called "Commander in Chief"? Would or would not that be considered a military position since he has military power? Since he is running for that position don't you agree that he should be saluting the flag out of respect for the military men and women serving?

No, absolutely NOT. The political position is President of the United States. One aspect of that position is CinC in those times the military is called to actual service.

The President of the United States is a civilian position. Civilians do not salute the flag. Civilians are expected to show appropriate respect for the flag, but a salute is for the military.

Two things:

Article Two, Clause 1 of the Constitution establishes the President as commander-in-chief of the armed forces.

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States"

At the time Obama take the office of the President are we or are not still likely to be in a state of war? Would that not make him the commander in chief? So are you saying Obama shouldn't salute the flag at all, should wait until he's elected and takes office or should salute now as a show of respect?

I say he should be saluting now as a show of respect.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by sos37

 

So he is a spiritual mentor. Big deal.

What does religion have to do with being POTUS?

Are you so desperate to find dirt on obama, that you're resorting back to a clinton tactic in attempts to discredit the man?

Do you realize these sort of attacks only strengthen Obama, his supporters, and anyone who's "on the fence" ?

Cmon man

surely you can come up with something better?

I support obama, and i could come up with a hell of a lot better ways to "not vote" for him than this

What does religion have to do with being POTUS? Nothing. What does buying into Jeremiah Wright's bizarre ideas have to do with being POTUS? Everything, since Wright spews hatred, racism and radical government beliefs.

So you're really going to stick with the fact that Obama distanced himself from Wright during the recent election season but not during the 20 years he attended that church as a sign that he doesn't buy into Wright's beliefs?

I don't buy it at all. I don't trust Obama. Before the Rev. Wright scandal I didn't think he was all that bad, although "bittergate" didn't sit well with me. But there's absolutely no way I can resolve in my mind that this guy won't get into office and start representing the radicals who are backing him up right now.

reply to post by sos37


Yes, I read the same Article. And while the military forces of the US have been called to actual service, thus activating the CinC aspect of the president, we are not in a state of war.

'war' is a formal declaration, with legal meaning, to be done by Congress. Congress fell down in their duty there (one of many). We are not at 'war'.

And I think Obama should never salute the flag. I believe he should, and does, show appropriate respect. But until and unless he becomes a member of the military, he, as a civilian, should not salute the flag.

McCain, as retired military, might be able to get away with it. But President McCain, should that come to pass heaven forbid, should not.

reply to post by sos37


I see.

So is it safe to assume that you are practicing "guilt by association" ?

regardless of the fact you've danced around my questions, and failed to answer them, instead creating your own in response, what say you about McCain and his company?

Shady lenders

Terrorist financier's


not to mention, if you're going to bring 'racism' into this, then stop dancing around the question of McCains own racist comments.

Again

McCain said racist comments
vs.
Obama's preacher saying racist comments

Gee. I wonder why the commotion?

So your assertion is that its okay to say racial comments yourself, as long as your preacher doesnt say them?



i'm lost

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


So Andrew, you plant, what do you think about the fact that Obama now wants to expand the Bush programs that involve faith based groups? Isn't that what you all railed against Bush for? So why is Obama getting a pass?

Oh, thats right, because you know he's pandering.

reply to post by jasonjnelson


well, first off, you can leave political name calling at the door. If you cant partake in an adult conversation, a simple google search will provide you with a MUCH more suitable domain for you to take your pandering and childish behavior.


Secondly. i never said anything about bush and faith based programs. So don't put words in my mouth, and make insinuations that your immature intellect cannot keep up with.

Thirdly, im not against faith based groups. A president supports them. Great.

I think the greater question is

Why does it bother you that Obama (a liberal) supports the same groups that Bush (a conservative) currently supports?

Originally posted by walkinghomer
Please tell me if Ron Paul was running against Obama you would vote Ron Paul.

This is a really great question! Bravo! And I don't know the answer for myself at this time. I do know that I would have to take some time, do more research and learn more about them both. It would be a whole readjustment of mindset, because at one time I did support Ron Paul.

I have a feeling I would end up voting for Ron Paul.

Great question!

reply to post by LLoyd45


Lloyd your absolutely right, Obama hates America.

Thats why Obama is spending millions of dollars and enduring daily criticism, working 20 hours a day and putting his family through a tough experience. he could be writing books and stayed a senator and be a millionaire instead he's running for president because he loves his country.

If your idea of patriotism is defined by a flag lapel pin, or if you can spit out the pledge of allegiance, or a hand gesturewell then you have NO CLUE what patriotism is.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


What does it take to get you to understand that he referred to them like that because of a war. How can you compare a war fought against our enemy to an everyday crime committed by one American to another American. If I was him I probably wouldn't apologize either for using that term. Especially if I saw my fellow Americans being tortured or blown away.
You can rant and yell about his anger but you haven't been through the hell he went through. If you had you would see his point of view. See ya on the next issue. Must admit you do keep it pretty interesting.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

 

What does it take to get you to understand that he referred to them like that because of a war. .

I do understand "why" he does it. That does not make it appropriate for POTUS, IMO.

Rev. Wright bashes the government of the US because of the racial indifferences he suffered as a youth.

Does that make what he says today, any more acceptable for you?

McCains story would make a great episode of Oprah, except for one key component that is missing:

He has not renounced his racially hate filled past.

He's done racially charged things against black people
asians

he's done and said derogatory things against women and poor people


he's for himself, and those who have bank accounts as big as his

thats it.

i fail to see how this is not troubling to you?

Originally posted by jam321
What does it take to get you to understand that he referred to them like that because of a war.

What makes using a racial slur OK - as long as I think I have a "good" reason?

I'm not sure you understand what's "wrong" with using racial slurs. It includes the whole of a race. If a woman was raped by 6 black men, would that be a "good enough" reason to call all black people by the n-word? Where is the line drawn? When does it become ok to use a racial slur?

If a soldier in Iraq came home to the US and used a racial slur against Middle Eastern people, would that be oK? Is WAR the only "good reason" to use a racial slur?

What does it take to get you to understand that it's never ok to use a slur against the whole of a group? The people who tortured McCain were bad. But that doesn't mean it's OK to call all of the people of the country a name.

I really don't see why we even debate Obama and Mccain.

Nothing will change with either of them. They are just two different sides to the same coin.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I will say it again if you have been in a war you will understand. I am not saying it justifies it I'm just saying that this is an ugly fact of war. It doesn't mean that soldiers should refer to those people as that once they come back from war. Can you show me where McCain referred to people like that since returning from war. When he used that word he was looking back to the time he was in the war and describing the war the way it was for him.

Who ever said that wearing a pin is a barometer for patriotism?
In my opinion I feel like if you have to wear a pin to prove something, your opinion is worth the two bucks you spent to "prove" you are a "true patriot".
$2.00 Patriots.
Tell me.....orange, lloyd, jetx, nyk, jamie......are you all wearing your pins right now???

Probably not.

Why are you so "un-patriotic" then?

I would suggest dying you hair red, white, and blue so when people see you comin' they say: "Wow. They must really love their country."

See how asinine that sounds?

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

I will say it again if you have been in a war you will understand. I am not saying it justifies it I'm just saying that this is an ugly fact of war. It doesn't mean that soldiers should refer to those people as that once they come back from war. Can you show me where McCain referred to people like that since returning from war. When he used that word he was looking back to the time he was in the war and describing the war the way it was for him.

ya know, your inquisitions are taking a sharp turn south.

show you where he refered to people like that since returning from war? :shk:

has everyone forgot what google.com is today?

Back in 2002, the Senator told reporters, "I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."

source



Yeah. that belongs up there with great presidential speeches along side

Abraham Lincoln
FDR
and JFK

[edit on 7/2/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by jam321
I will say it again if you have been in a war you will understand.

Oh, I understand. I understand racism quite well.

And I believe Andrew has answered the other part of your post.

Originally posted by Grafilthy
Who ever said that wearing a pin is a barometer for patriotism?

Great post. I am disappointed that Obama started wearing his pin again, apparently to appeal to the people who charge him with not being patriotic enough. I think it's a shame that he would bow to public pressure like that.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]