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Obama's Patriotism Speech

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posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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Reply to Jetxnet:


hmm, well so far, your post seems to be 100% yours... so keep it up
...but im still skeptical.....

So, we have one video clip of Rev. Wright saying the government created AIDS and "goddamn america"

I agree with you - thats stupid, asinine and ridiculous
nothing anyone says can condone it

i guess thats why Obama denounced it?

Also, consider this:

you subscribe, daily, to a website that promotes "out of the box thinking" that radical idealists take to the extreme and blame america for much worse things, denounce God all together, and promote other forms of "taboo thought" as considered in mainstream media.

I am not bad mouthing those people, because free thought creates results

But, if you're a subscriber here, does that mean you think the same way they do?

Do you agree with 100% of what springer, or S.O., or Simon Gray think?

Because if you don't, well...you subscribe here.
How is that any different?


[edit on -05:00America/Chicago3131110711313131 by Andrew E. Wiggin]




posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 08:17 AM
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The problem I see over and over is the assumptions and requirements people put on displays of patriotism.

Too many people seem to assume that wearing some Chinese-made chunk of plastic means the wearer is "Patriotic". And indeed they may be. And the assumption is also made that someone who chooses not to wear such is NOT patriotic. And again, they may not be.

But the presence or absence of this particular bauble does not in fact indicate a person's patriotism. Especially in this age of jingoism, a true patriot that does not give in to the pressure to wear such all the freaking time deserves greater respect, in my opinion.

Another assumption I find troubling is that anyone who recognizes that this country has problems is not a patriot. This is pure BS.

Yes, there is a lot of evidence to support the claim that the US is a great country. But to deny that we have huge, serious problems that may lead to our downfall is not the act of a real patriot.


  • We have started wars of aggression.
  • We have embraced torture.
  • Our branches of government intended to be non-political have been corrupted to the core by politics.
  • We have indebted our future generations with a ton of bad debt.
  • We have alienated most of the rest of the world.
  • We cannot provide decent care or employment to too many of our citizens, including those who have served in the military.
  • We have stood by while a corrupt set of politicians have raped our Constitution.


And it can go on. To recognize these truths takes a real patriot. To hide ones head, and insist that since America is a great country that everything America does is by definition great does not serve our nation.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 08:36 AM
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Let's settle this patriotism thing once and for all. I recommend that at their first debate we hook up both candidates to lie detectors test and ask each one of them if they are patriotic and if they believe in our flag and our country. Once the test is done the tester can reveal the truth about who is lying.
The reason patriotism comes up is because Obama was caught doing things a candidate shouldn't do. Now he uses that flag pin like an American Express card...don't leave home without it. Coincidence huh?
If he doesn't believe in wearing one then I respect that. What I don't respect is the way he caved in to get this patriotism issue off his back. This reflects badly on his character because it shows that he doesn't stand up for what he believes. What other issues will he cave in to just to get votes.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by jam321
 


I would disagree with this on a couple of fronts:

- Lie detectors are not sufficiently reliable in their results
- The questions "are you a patriot" and "do you believe in the US" are entirely too vague... as we've seen here, there is too much room in the answer...



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by jam321
Obama was caught doing things a candidate shouldn't do.


and what "things" would that be? I am curious.

How about McCains racial slurs
How about McCains verbal attacks on his wife?
How about McCains joke against women when he said "yeah, and i stopped beating my wife yesterday"

How about McCain voting against MLK day for a holiday

How about....


well i could go on all day.

Yeah - obama not wearing something as mundane as a lapel pin = unpatriotic.

Im an american, and you wouldnt catch me wearing one. Does that make me a vicious black panther nazi prick too?
If so. Fine. As your employer's slogan says: "You can Have it your way"


[edit on -05:00America/Chicago2121420742213121 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


He didn't do the pledge right right, didn't wear a flag pin. I am not saying he isn't patriotic all I am saying is that your average politician is renown for using the flag from day one.
As far as McCain racial slur, put it into context. During the Vietnam war, they were gooks to the military just like ragheads is to Arabs in this war. I am sure that the Vietnamese soldiers and Arab insurgents have their own racial slur used to define the Americans.
As far as attacking women, I have not read up on that one. However, I will say this, there are many men who insult their wife in a joking manner and have done so for years. Just cause it goes against political correctness doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Do you know anybody who refers to their wife as their ol' lady or woman? Should that be taken out of context?

Finally, the only point I am trying to make is this, If Obama feels that he is patriotic, despite wearing a flag pin, then so be it. Even if he doesn't do the pledge right, which most people don't either, so be it. This doesn't mean he isn't patriotic. However, when he flips and starts doing these things that he previously felt were not necessary in order to prove his patriotism, then I see a problem. I see a person who goes with the flow and doesn't stand up for what he believes. He caved in to the pressure rather than articulate and stand firm on his beliefs. Just like any other politician.

McCain has done similar things but has proven over the years that he isn't afraid to PO somebody when he doesn't agree. This is the reason I am undecided. No matter what they say we are still voting for the same O thing.

As for a third party, I would vote for one but the REPs and DEMs will still dominate the agenda depending on who wins the house and senate. If there were more independents in Congress then I would vote for a third party candidate.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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why would wearing a flag pin and reciting the pledge of allegiance nessessarily be equated with being a patriotic US citizen?

maybe people who do not stand up and recite the pledge of allegiance simply feel that there is no need... Or maybe they disagree with a few lines such as "One nation under god" (which is BS imo)... or maybe they don't want to act like a sock-puppet.

whatever the case, these things are trivial and it's amazing to watch people turn molehills into mountains.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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strange. I'm not a fan of Obama or Mccain but Why all the attacks against obama?

Mccain's Underwear has a lot of skid marks as does Obama so before you cast the stone from Mccains nest towards obama save one for mccain.

They are both equal and given the opportunity I would still do a write it for Ron Paul.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by lostcoyote
why would wearing a flag pin and reciting the pledge of allegiance nessessarily be equated with being a patriotic US citizen?

maybe people who do not stand up and recite the pledge of allegiance simply feel that there is no need... Or maybe they disagree with a few lines such as "One nation under god" (which is BS imo)... or maybe they don't want to act like a sock-puppet.

whatever the case, these things are trivial and it's amazing to watch people turn molehills into mountains.


I have to say I agree with you 100%
although I don't like it when Obama gives a speech right after a major incident to try and push it under the rug. Tackle it head on and explain yourself.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
However, when he flips and starts doing these things that he previously felt were not necessary in order to prove his patriotism, then I see a problem. I see a person who goes with the flow and doesn't stand up for what he believes. He caved in to the pressure rather than articulate and stand firm on his beliefs. Just like any other politician.


Well said. Obama did not gain any points with me for starting to wear the ever so important pin after some public pressure. He had good (in my opinion) reasons for why he chose not to, and BS ones (again, my opinion) for starting to wear it all the time now.



McCain has done similar things but has proven over the years that he isn't afraid to PO somebody when he doesn't agree. This is the reason I am undecided. No matter what they say we are still voting for the same O thing.


McCain may at one time have been that way. In the last couple of years, however, he has shown an increased tendancy to do or say what it takes to "woo the Republican base", whatever that may be at the moment.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


As far as McCain racial slur, put it into context. During the Vietnam war, they were gooks to the military just like ragheads is to Arabs in this war. I am sure that the Vietnamese soldiers and Arab insurgents have their own racial slur used to define the Americans.


Hmm. Put into context

A racial slur is a racial slur

Is it okay for a upper class white man to use the n-word to describe all black people because a black man killed his father?

-no-

so how is it okay for McCain to use the G word for asians, and then refuse to "take it back"

Just because terrorists have "slurs" for americans, doesnt mean its "okay" for americans to have slurs

2 wrongs dont make a right
'
a slur is a slur, and it gives you insight into the mentality of the bigoted son of a *snip* who's using it.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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And saluting the flag? Only military are supposed to salute the flag! You think he should impersonate military personnel just to please the doubters? Jeez!


Is the political position that Obama is running for not called "Commander in Chief"? Would or would not that be considered a military position since he has military power? Since he is running for that position don't you agree that he should be saluting the flag out of respect for the military men and women serving?

Geez, BH, you will support this man no matter what won't you? Even if he comes out and said something irrefutably racial you would still kow-tow to him like a mindless sheep wouldn't you?



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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Lets do this

If you vote for Obama and he wins and bankrupts this nation that everyone that voted for him has to give all their pay checks for the next 20 years to the next president to fix it.

If you vote for mccain and he sends us into war against Iran or wherever then everyone who votes for him has to pack their bags and go to war.

and if you vote for Ron paul then we all can just work for our own and stop depending on the government.



Well Ron Paul Can't win. At least not this time around and I don't want to kill anyone and I don't want to give my money to the government so what do I do..

Rather be Broke than dead..

[edit on 2-7-2008 by walkinghomer]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin

But, if you're a subscriber here, does that mean you think the same way they do?

Do you agree with 100% of what springer, or S.O., or Simon Gray think?

Because if you don't, well...you subscribe here.
How is that any different?


[edit on -05:00America/Chicago3131110711313131 by Andrew E. Wiggin]


You know damn well how it's different, you just sweep it under the rug like any Obama supporter.

1. Are these people the sole speakers, constantly preaching one type of message each time you come here? No. Does the audience (the individual looking at the posts) have the choice of reading each post by clicking or not clicking on the posts they want to read Yes.

2. Has the individual been subjected to the opinions of this board for the past 20 years? Probably not.

3. Has the individual made any of the people you mentioned a spiritual mentor for themselves? No.

Your argument holds no water by comparison.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by walkinghomer
 


Well, then i guess on that note

anyone who voted for bush better start forking over thier paychecks to the 2009 president, and better start packing their bags to be shipped off to iraq



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 


I see

So, lets pretend for arguments sake, sos, that you were running for POTUS

now, lets say that steve urkel was your opponent, and one of his lackeys found out that you had been posting here for "10 years" and then pointed out some of the more asinine threads like

"im a space alien, bow down to me earthlings"

and

"the earth is actually flat"

and then twisted all of that to make ATS seem like a rediculous place.

Sure, it'd be easy to do, if you left out all the reasons ATS is a wonderful place, and omit the fact that no matter where you are, there are ignorant people posting ignorant crap that has no relevence to the board its posted in.


It is the same thing. You treat it differently because of your extreme dislike for Obama.

Its a church. A black church.
Just because one man says something, doesnt mean that EVERY PERSON who goes to that church agree's with it.

So you're avoiding the question

do you agree with 100% of everything that the three wisemen say and do?

If so - make sure you dont run for president, because one day, someone will find a way to twist the stories, revamp a few things, omit a few more things, and use ATS against you.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


All I can say is that unless you have been in a war you will never understand why that slur exist. Is it wrong, I would say yes. However, I can't blame him or fault him for using those words on people who at the time were trying to kill him and torture him. War is hell and creates a lot of ill will toward the enemy, especially when your fellow Americans, regardless of color, are dying alongside you.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by sos37
 


I see

So, lets pretend for arguments sake, sos, that you were running for POTUS

now, lets say that steve urkel was your opponent, and one of his lackeys found out that you had been posting here for "10 years" and then pointed out some of the more asinine threads like

"im a space alien, bow down to me earthlings"

and

"the earth is actually flat"

and then twisted all of that to make ATS seem like a rediculous place.

Sure, it'd be easy to do, if you left out all the reasons ATS is a wonderful place, and omit the fact that no matter where you are, there are ignorant people posting ignorant crap that has no relevence to the board its posted in.


It is the same thing. You treat it differently because of your extreme dislike for Obama.

Its a church. A black church.
Just because one man says something, doesnt mean that EVERY PERSON who goes to that church agree's with it.

So you're avoiding the question

do you agree with 100% of everything that the three wisemen say and do?

If so - make sure you dont run for president, because one day, someone will find a way to twist the stories, revamp a few things, omit a few more things, and use ATS against you.



Where do you come up with these things man. I love the debate between you and others.

I find you calm and insightful. Almost intelligent..not that the other guys aren't. They bring up a lot of points that I agree with as well but I find your reasonings more sound..



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


So, then you would condone electing a president who doesnt have the mentally stability to let go of a racial slur, or even apologize for it?

I see. So lets elect someone who's anger over powers his judgment. You, yourself, admit its wrong.

He has deep rooted racial prejudices and you'd have to be legally blind and deaf, and maybe even slightly on the "slow" side to fail to see it.


i have never been to war, yo're right


but i have been mugged at knife point, by a black man

i dont use the n-word to describe any black person, not even him. I have other choice words for him

like

deviant son of a *snip*
criminal

and my favorite

incarcerated


[edit on 7/2/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by walkinghomer
 


Well, then i guess on that note

anyone who voted for bush better start forking over thier paychecks to the 2009 president, and better start packing their bags to be shipped off to iraq



I didn't vote for him the first time but I was hope crossing my fingers and toes hoping he would win. Do I have to start packing?

Please tell me if Ron Paul was running against Obama you would vote Ron Paul.



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