Calling all knowledgable ATS members Where does it all end

reply to post by franspeakfree


I was talking with a fellow at work, and had this thread up on the screen. The fellow I was talking to saw it, read a little bit, and had this to say:
"There will always be secret societies, it doesn't mmatter if they exist or not."
Thought it was a interesting way of putting it. Anyway, back to the thread.

reply to post by franspeakfree


Yes, your trying to create the patented "ONE CONSPIRACY TO RULE THEM ALL" (say it like you would "ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL") in an attempt to connect absolutely everything. Everything is not connected. There is not 1 huge massive conspiracy.

reply to post by franspeakfree

Where does the owl deity fit in?

It is Athena/Minerva. The aspect of the goddess that is represented by an owl is wisdom. The Bavarian Illuminati worshiped the owl, as does the Bohemian Club today. The latter do acknowledge the wisdom aspect of its owl in the Cremation of Care ceremony, by the statue in the library at the San Francisco headquarters which is an exact replica of an Athenian owl at the Acropolis, and if indeed one questions them on it. In case you're wondering, Molech has nothing to do with an owl, despite Alex Jones' inane claims to the contrary and to his embarrassment; and the Bohemian Grove participants do not worship Moloch simply because Moloch never was an owl - it was an ox or a sacred bull.

Say for instance the head of Nasa does have connections with Nazi Germany where does that fit in?

Operation Paperclip: CIA-NAZI shenanigans. Knights of Malta interference too.

Say Bush does dress up in robes once a year and worship an owl where does that fit in?

I'm not sure he partook in the plays at the Grove, dressing up as a druid and what not; but he has been there on multiple occasions - dear old dad as well. It fits into the whole Republican base, really. The bohos have evolved into a sort private retreat for rich Republicans.

Also where does the vatican fit into all this.

They haven't given up their place at the table just because we now live in a secular society. The Knights of Malta are simultaneously CIA agents, business moguls and power brokers on the international stage. And the Knights of Malta are tools of the Vatican - or is it the other way round

Try the Jason Society if your looking for a "secret society" that has ties to the whole UFO question.

I'm curious: what was the impetus that caused you to start this thread? What was it that you read or had been told?

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


Theres nothing I hate more then hypotheses to group every conspiracy together simply because the authors of said hypotheses lack the intellectual ability to distinguish all of them separately.. People make conspiracies from nothing from lack of understanding how the "real world" works.. but to group all conspiracies together is the utter height of blatant ignorance.. because not only can they not understand the "real world" .. they can't even understand the conspiracies they hide behind... so from dumbing reality down, they dumb their own fictitious world down..

I grow weary of it..

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
I realize its pretty popular to be like "so it begins" and other similar cryptic messages to signal overt doom and gloom on ATS, but if your going to disagree with me at least provide some evidence - like the website of the NWO, or their logo, or something - which we can find for the rest of these currently existing groups (although most are not secret societies).

a N.W.O web site???
your kidding right?

its ok to be a skeptic ...but come on...look around.. the N.W.O
is alive and well and in control.......

Originally posted by Maya432
its ok to be a skeptic ...but come on...look around..

It's no use with him. The only reason he is here in the first place is to debunk and obfuscate - he admitted as much. He doesn't believe in conspiracy theories of any sort, and looks upon those who do with contempt. His uni profs have indoctrinated him with the sociological bs which studies "conspiracism" as an illness and as a way to defend and perpetuate the establishment's party line.

With people like him who needs shills on the payroll of NWO! Ohh, and he's a Freemason too, to boot; so he's got more establishment types whispering into his ear from that front as well.

Did I miss anything, Light?

reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men


I agree. I rather think that the mind that seeks to put it all together is operating on a higher principle than a mind that is satisfied with compartmentalization. It doesn't really matter, in the end, if his theory is absolutely correct or not as long as he is dedicated enough to follow truth where ever it leads - including acknowledging mistakes. I think he should have faith in his intuitive knowledge that something ties all of these things together in some way.

reply to post by Maya432


If you post conclusive evidence that the NWO exist, can post conclusive evidence of it's members, of it's objectives, it's short and long term goals, it's history, and absolute proof the the NWO conspiracy is in fact ..... factual...

I swear to the God's upon my reputation on ATS I will mail you a personal check of 5 thousand dollars.

Accept my challenge, or sulk off as a pathetic looser lacking the intellectual capability to construct truths out of reality.

I challenge you .. PROVE TO ME THE NWO EXIST!

If not, you will only be considered another pathetic pos who came onto a discussion board with the intellectual capabilities of a 3rd grader. So common.. prove me wrong! Win some money, mate!

reply to post by Maya432


Yes really, a NWO website. Why not? You have them FOR NEARLY EVERY OTHER GROUP that the conspiracy theorists make up about ruling the world. You can go to the meetings of all these other groups, even if they keep you outside

The NWO....

..has no meetings anyone can find. (the CFR, Bilderbergs, Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones all have meetings where you can literally watch the members go into a building to meet).
..has nothing material to prove its existence. (the CFR has a website, and letterhead, Bohemian Grove has items with its logo engraved on it, etc.)
..has no membership list (the CFR, Grove, and Skull and Bones do)

There is no evidence to support the existence of the NWO. While I do not believe any of the other groups are actually "controlling the world" (with the exception of perhaps Skull and Bones), there is actually material proof of the organizations being real.

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
Did I miss anything, Light?

Yep, you missed everything - as usual. You forgot to mention your inability to debate or provide evidence for your conspiracies, and forgot to mention that I believe people like you are propaganda agents in a much larger conspiracy to deflect from the real evil in this world.

Also, you forgot to mention how apparently you are incapable of any level of higher education, since doing so would require you to think for yourself and, well, you much prefer to be feed what you believe. As such, you get quite psychotic.

Carry on.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
As such, you get quite psychotic.

Why thank you.

I do try my hardest.

I'm glad someone has noticed.

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
It is Athena/Minerva. The aspect of the goddess that is represented by an owl is wisdom. The Bavarian Illuminati worshiped the owl, as does the Bohemian Club today. The latter do acknowledge the wisdom aspect of its owl in the Cremation of Care ceremony, by the statue in the library at the San Francisco headquarters which is an exact replica of an Athenian owl at the Acropolis, and if indeed one questions them on it. In case you're wondering, Molech has nothing to do with an owl, despite Alex Jones' inane claims to the contrary and to his embarrassment; and the Bohemian Grove participants do not worship Moloch simply because Moloch never was an owl - it was an ox or a sacred bull.

Fire, I'm kinda surprised to see you write this. It's a fairly strong statement to make, that the Bavarian Illuminati worshiped the owl. I'd have no problem if you put forth the idea that they used it as a symbol; even as a representative of their ideology. But WORSHIP? I'd be interested in what, in your extensive research on the Bavarian Illuminati, would suggest that they worshiped the owl (or anything else, for that matter...).

reply to post by JoshNorton


The Minerval Churches (or Academies) were the backbone of the Order, and it is the rituals and ceremonies of the Minervals that were the most original, unique, and free from unnecessary masonic nomenclature. It was Weishaupt's baby all the way.

Anyway, yes, worship is a pretty strong word. But judging from what I've read of what took place at a Minerval gathering (Le Forestier goes into vivid detail), idolatry is perhaps more apt. I have also translated four stanzas of an ode to the owl of Pallas Athene, for instance, and have printed it in my forthcoming book. Every meeting it would be reverently recited almost in an outright attempt at invocation.

The Minerval seal had the owl of Minerva; the initiates cavorted in public with a necklace of the same motif; and Weishaupt himself was totally obsessed with owl symbolism.

The German Illuminati experts (historians, professors, scholars) will tell you outright that the Owl of Minerva was THE symbol of the Illuminati - partly because they detest the American myth that it is the pyramid with the all-seeing-eye. The truth is, there was a plethora of symbolism: the Owl, Minerva, Jupiter, Neptune and the entire roman Pantheon; a crown, a crescent moon and the Pleiades (some temples dedicated to Minerva in antiquity were known to have been oriented toward the constellation); Egyptian elements in the Minerval degrees, too, such as a pyramid and Ba-bird; even aspects of Strict Observance ritual were transplanted into the higher degrees by Knigge.

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men

Anyway, yes, worship is a pretty strong word. But judging from what I've read of what took place at a Minerval gathering (Le Forestier goes into vivid detail), idolatry is perhaps more apt. I have also translated four stanzas of an ode to the owl of Pallas Athene, for instance, and have printed it in my forthcoming book. Every meeting it would be reverently recited almost in an outright attempt at invocation.

Excuse my confusion here, but did Weishaupt's Illuminati follow the Roman representation of Minerva rather than that of the more trinitarian Greek representation? Or perhaps more simply put, did they 'worship' Minerva in isolation or recognise her as part of the three in one?

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Hodge-podge by nature. Minerva and Athena would be mentioned both in one paragraph. Greek and Roman aspects of everything were effortlessly interchanged and contemplated upon at the same time. That it stemmed from antiquity is all that mattered.

Illuminati were the ultimate eclectics.

there are as many 'Secret Societies' with their own points of focus...
As there are factions, sects, divisions of Religions ----Because ----

We Are All Groping In The Dark

Has it ever occured to the would be Conspiracy theorist that secret societies usually become so because of persecution?

Usually in most of mankinds history the governments have ruled in tyranny, even in unchecked democracies (as opposed to Republics), mob rule becomes it's own tyranny. A tyranny of mass ignorance.

Doesn't ignorance always lash out against that it does not understand. Afraid of anything it finds to be a mystery? Do most people not willfully choose ignorance? After all today especially we all have the history of teh world and art at our fingertips...and most choose to use it for googling porn and playing games.....not learning. Most people have no desire to learn anything new, or challange any local norms.

If you have any sort of free thought, or if your views or ideals are not perfectly main stream in your culture no matter what nation you are in, you are more likely to be persecuted then if you simply keep your mouth shut.

Usually the need for secrecy historically has always been to avoid such persecution. Not to conspire, or dominate, but simply to survive.....the nazi's and those like them have always made clear records as to their intents....heck Hitler even published his ahead of time. Those that wish to dominate usually start so by "publishing" their manifesto, which eventually they desire to be made into law.....enslaving thought is their game, and that is never donein secret. It is posted for everyone to see, and it is forced upon them.

Also in art or in literature, when artists sneak stuff in their works or put phrases of inside humor or significance, they do so for a different audiance one that usually shares a view that may or may not be main stream. It is not a secret plot, but rather an inside joke between friends who can not always discuss such things in the open.

It wasn't so long ago that simply having any view other then that of the Roman Catholic Church could have you imprisoned or dead. It wasn't so long ago that simply acknowledging the world wasn't flat, or that the earth revolved around the sun, or any such truth was get you rediculed by the willfully ignorant who simply followed their set of taboos, and myths, and lashed out any any learned knowledge that might expose those views as false......this is the history of mankind. If you search for any truth, you have to constantly be avoiding the locals with pitch forks, and torches.

Has it then occured to you that many men through out history have chosen to keep their mouths shut, and chosen to seek ways to communicate to other educated persons without fear not out of some conpiracy against mankind, but rather simply trying to stay SAFE from mankind, which is by in large full of bigotry, and intolerance. Many such groups desire to protect truth, from societies that more often then not are ruled by shallow passions, bigotry, and bias.

Great Tyranny does not live in secret. It wears uniforms, it posts rules clearly, it makes examples of any that oppose it's views, and makes it's views orthodoxy......Freedom of Thought......must always be protected.

Most "anti-masons through out history have had an agenda...an orthodoxy, one they'd like to see etched in stone and forced upon all....freedom of thought is NOT something they value.



[edit on 11/7/2008 by ForkandSpoon]

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Ok a few questsoions-
Where does the owl deity fit in?
Say for instance the head of Nasa does have connections with Nazi Germany where does that fit in?
Say Bush does dress up in robes once a year and worship an owl where does that fit in?
Say that washington is set out exactly like a place in the UK where does that fit in?
Why have secret societies in the first place? apart from feeling special and above everyone where is it going to get you?
Also where does the vatican fit into all this.

I just can't see any connections between secret societies,UFO;S and Aliens? are people trying to make something out of nothing?

Start scouring threads the answers you seek are here all that mumbo jumbo has been discussed numerous times, read away at older posts you should be enlightened by the end of your day.

Originally posted by St Udio
there are as many 'Secret Societies' with their own points of focus...
As there are factions, sects, divisions of Religions ----Because ----

We Are All Groping In The Dark

Or are we out in the sunshine picking up shiny objects out of the dirt only to find they're gilded plastic. Personally I've taken to rolling around in the dirt, far more productive, much more fun.

reply to post by ForkandSpoon

Has it ever occured to the would be Conspiracy theorist that secret societies usually become so because of persecution?

No. Because it is not true.

Once persecution is the norm, forming anything that is organized and clandestine in nature is difficult and improbable.

Subversion is the motivating factor of a cabal. Secret societies are formed to gain power and influence, simply because they don't have it to begin with.

.... shallow passions, bigotry, and bias.

[..]Most "anti-masons through out history have had an agenda...an orthodoxy, one they'd like to see etched in stone and forced upon all....freedom of thought is NOT something they value.

Who's the bigot now?

Has it ever occurred to you that the Masons' agenda (your agenda) in this forum is contrived and transparent. Proselytization leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and I rebel when it is shoved in my face.

Your first post is a rage against the so-called "anti masons" - and in a thread that has nothing to do with it. Wonderful.

It's a little hypocritical to call the other side shallow.