Calling all knowledgable ATS members Where does it all end

Ok I have been reading about secret societies,secret architecture,secret geometrical foundations, secret handshakes, secret emblems. secret signs, basically everything to do with secret societies. I am an experienced ufologist/intuitive person. I understand alot about life especially when it incorporates the above.

However, I am so confused with secret societies, wheres does it end. So there are secret societies that have kept us in the dark about many things for the past hundred years, my question is how? how have they managed to do this without external help? why build buildings symetrically and place buildings geometrically to mirror emblems/signs, why start 911 in September, who chooses these things? if George Bush is part of a secret society why is he the front man? who or what are these secret societies trying to please?

I read that particular buildings in the Uk are built to plan, in an exact symetrically way to somehow retain energy? As I said before I am not a newbie when it comes to ufology or spiritual awareness however, I would really appreciate some kind of view and feedback from the knowledgable others that roam these sites and sit in the background.

If you look through time all great leaders are influenced by some kind of philosophy or doctrine. Hitler had Blavatski, Goethe, Voltaire, Netwon just to name a few were super stars in their time who had a great deal of influence on modern thinking (of that time). This in combination with the global elite (the bloodline) who controls the money and who are able to foster the ones who follow their doctrines, I think that is how it works? That's why you will never see me point at one group or organization as the problem or cause because it's simply incorrect to do so - it seems like every organization is (unknowingly?) being (ab)used. It's hard to put this personal view in English for me so I'll let some more eloquent persons make their point.

Thanks for the reply I understand the fact that leaders are influenced e.t.c but this goes very deep indeed for instance how did theses elite become elite who is pulling the strings when we get past the government and black ops. There are so many questions I have whirling around in mymind at the moment for instance, why did hitler study the occult, why do societies worship owls? why are buildings erected in a particular pattern, surely theres more to it than an inside joke? how did the NWO become the NWO how did the bilderberg become the bilderberg? who controls the banks? so what you have all the money and power in the world, they are just human arent they? still seceptable to cancers and death? aren't they?

It ends pretty quickly. The secret societies discussed on this board either don't currently exist (Illuminati), some never existed (NWO), and others do exist but do not have the power ascribed to them by conspiracy theorists (Freemasons). Other groups, such as the Council on Foreign Relations, do exist and do influence world politics but it is not really a secret society. These groups influence world affairs in a very mundane way - interest group pressure - nothing really secret about it.

About the only actual secret society I've seen discussed here is Skull and Bones, but according to many Yale alumni its quickly losing its power.

[edit on 27-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

A magnetic polar to the last comment...

it never ends, it just begins again

I realize its pretty popular to be like "so it begins" and other similar cryptic messages to signal overt doom and gloom on ATS, but if your going to disagree with me at least provide some evidence - like the website of the NWO, or their logo, or something - which we can find for the rest of these currently existing groups (although most are not secret societies).

Maybe the OP puts undue emphasis on the connection between secret societies and architectural vernacular. On the other hand, when you talk about Freemasons, you are talking about a group that has specifically incorporated the symbols of building into its tradition. And they sometimes refer to God as the Great Architect. So, where there is smoke and all that.

But "sacred geometry" goes back at least as far as Pythagoras and his mystery school. According to some noteworthy researchers, even the Giza pyramid complex incorporates some of the same geometrical signatures.

Maybe the place to start is by understanding the word geometry. It literally means "earth measuring". This implies that the origins of geometry are based in taking measurements of the earth.

Why would anyone do that?

Generally speaking I've never really been incredibly interested in secret societies. Mainly because apparently there is a wall immediately above the level of the common (and what exactly is the common employee anyway) made up of multiple secret societies who all manage to be of the same cloth pretty much. Any secret organization is evil, worships satan, ect. And they all want to rule the world (maniacal laugh). Seems like they must keep running into each other.

Originally posted by applebiter
On the other hand, when you talk about Freemasons, you are talking about a group that has specifically incorporated the symbols of building into its tradition. And they sometimes refer to God as the Great Architect. So, where there is smoke and all that.

Could you please explain how incorporating masonic symbols into buildings made by masons and constructed for masons is a sign of the whole "where there is smoke there is fire" thing?


[edit on 27-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Originally posted by applebiter
Maybe the place to start is by understanding the word geometry. It literally means "earth measuring". This implies that the origins of geometry are based in taking measurements of the earth.

Why would anyone do that?

Real estate? I mean, being able to determine who owned what parcel of land has been important as long as people have owned land, hasn't it? Whether it be for tax assessment, or sale, or whatever. Measurement and surveying were probably one of the earliest sciences to develop.

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


Don't start in on me, again.

Hey, geometry and architecture go hand in hand. A stone mason guild would likely be in possession of a great deal of knowledge related to architecture and geometry, correct?

That being said, no group or individual "owns" the golden proportion or the arch. Nature, herself, seems to be the author of the golden proportion, for example. If you find it incorporated in a building's architecture, then you can assume that the architect had a keen eye for the beauty and efficiency of nature. And, if just one builder ever made the discovery (somebody had to), then you might likely find it in the collected knowledge of a group of stone masons.

There doesn't actually seem to be anything mysterious about it. You gonna make me spell everything out all the time?

Yes, because your statement made it seem like there was something wrong about freemasons building structures for masons with masonic symbolism.

Your answer doesn't illuminate what you meant either. You also seem to be confusing stone masons with freemasons - an arch is not a purely freemasonic symbol.

[edit on 27-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

reply to post by JoshNorton


That's true. Apparently, early civilizations were quite advanced in some ways. I remember reading somewhere that there is archaeological evidence suggesting that kids were learning spherical trigonometry thousands of years ago.

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


Wrong? I never! If anything, perhaps I am too eager to ascribe wit and wisdom to Freemasonry and it's members past and present.

Didn't you say you were a Freemason? I am not, but I have read that Freemasonry's origins lay in the stone mason guild in Europe's past. Over time, the tradition morphed into "speculative" masonry, but it's symbolism hearkens back to a time when masonry was actually masonry, and a secret handshake or sign was required if one sought employment as a stone mason in Europe.

If you are talking architecture and design, don't forget about feng shui and the movement of energy.
It may not be anything sinister, but it is still manipulation, so to speak, but cleverly done.

reply to post by applebiter


Uhhh, your the one who made a statement about masonic architecture and a reference to the "where there is smoke there is fire" cliche, and then denied it. I was just curious as to what you meant by it...

The symbolism used are the tools of the stone masons, although not all of them are, but in the blue lodge off the top of my head only a few refer to actual architecture (columns come to mind). But the fact that you might find a image of a square, level, trowel, or compass on a building is not a sign of something bad...

[edit on 27-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


I don't see anyone in this thread using the words "bad" or "evil" or anything of the such, apart from yourself.

But back to the OP. I don't know anything about using architecture for "retaining energy", but I do know that the stone masons who built the cathedrals in Europe were conscious of using an architectural vernacular that would map appropriately onto the purpose of the structure. Great domes and strong pillars or columns, for example, would remind the visitor of the great expanse of the heavens and the strength of God.

The language of architecture is expressed in different vernaculars. Today there is much variation, and some would say confusion, such as a church in a strip mall. Back in the day, however, the craftsmen took great pains to use the architectural language to speak highly of God.

Originally posted by applebiter
Maybe the OP puts undue emphasis on the connection between secret societies and architectural vernacular. On the other hand, when you talk about Freemasons, you are talking about a group that has specifically incorporated the symbols of building into its tradition. And they sometimes refer to God as the Great Architect. So, where there is smoke and all that.

Sigh. Look, this is what I'm talking about. If your going to deny this has bad connotations even though I have never seen the phrase used in any way EXCEPT to mean something bad might be brewing, fine. I was curious as to what you meant...apparently you do not even know.

Ok a few questsoions-
Where does the owl deity fit in?
Say for instance the head of Nasa does have connections with Nazi Germany where does that fit in?
Say Bush does dress up in robes once a year and worship an owl where does that fit in?
Say that washington is set out exactly like a place in the UK where does that fit in?
Why have secret societies in the first place? apart from feeling special and above everyone where is it going to get you?
Also where does the vatican fit into all this.

I just can't see any connections between secret societies,UFO;S and Aliens? are people trying to make something out of nothing?

reply to post by franspeakfree


it ends with www.zeitgeistmovie.com