Freemasonry is NOT a Religion!, page 3
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reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 09:47 PM by Rockpuck
reply to post by ALightinDarkness



I to believe he is copy/pasting..

Doing random copy/search I came up with one long paragraph word for word taken from:

www.blueunicornpublishing.com...

Where the paragraph was copied without notation.

Oddly.. Ironic that it has Unicorn in the name.. haha..


reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 10:26 PM by ALightinDarkness
Lets review what your doing, because I think I may be able to help you with the source of your confusion.

1) Your proclaim Masonry is a religion.
2) You then proceed to post snippets from ritual that show masonry does not praise Jesus Christ
3) You then proclaim that obviously this is wrong, because masonry isn't worshiping your religion of choice.

The problem here is you proclaimed 1, which is not true. It should be unsurprising there is no reverence to any particular religion in masonry, because it is not a religion and as such as no religious dogma. Of course I know your doing this on purpose, but I still wanted to point it out for anyone reading.

Originally posted by mitchelcopper
Of course that is what its members are intended to think about it, even though it doesn't say that at all. It is the generated air of "religiosity" in the lodge room that permeates every bit of its ritual, and well-meaning men are being seduced by heresy. This is why Gallup Polls don't count. What counts is ritual. Reminds me of the analogy to rat poison - 98% good tasting stuff, but it's the 2% that'll kill ya.


I think this is just some sort of rambling rant, but I'll attempt to respond. Just because you want masonry to be a religion and you make up an "air of religion about it" does not actually make masonry a religion. All it actually shows is that you want to believe in the stuff you've made up so badly that you can no longer tell myth from reality.

Originally posted by mitchelcopper
Actually, I have discussed ritual as per ritual - the way it is written. "One size fits all" is exactly how it is intended. Why do supposed nobody is teaching acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior as being what is essentially necessary for gaining admission into heaven in supposed "Christian" lodges?


Actually, you've not discussed anything at all. You have posted paragraphs of ritual and then proclaimed their meaning, but unfortunately for you you've been making what you think they mean up on the fly in order to fit your propaganda.

Once again - and remember your refusal to see reality does not change it - nobody is teaching acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior in masonry because MASONRY IS - GASP - NOT A RELIGION. You will ALSO not find Jesus Christ taught as Lord and Savior in the supermarket, walmart, the classroom, or any other place that is not inside an institution of religion.


reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 10:42 PM by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by JoshNorton



Anti-masons always use the dictionary definition of religion, because they know if they did research on the actual definition of religion proposed by SCHOLARS OF RELIGION that it wouldn't fit their agenda.

***ATTENTION ALL ANTI-MASONS***
The definition of words in dictionaries are meant to be simple, even though we know words have complex meanings. When considered in different contexts, words have completely different meanings. For example, the definition of the word "short" in the dictionary says that short means an attribute related to height. However, when I use the word "short" in terms of the stock market, I mean that I am shorting a stock - betting that it will go down. These two completely different opposite meanings, because one is in a general context and one is in a financial context.

When we talk of religion, we are now moving away from a generalist context and are talking in a religion context. As such, the meaning of religion when we're talking about religion itself is best defined by the scholars of religion - and not the dictionary. The reason why, before anyone shrieks, is what I just mentioned - the true meaning of words are different in context.

Unsurprisingly, the scholarly meaning of religion does not fit masonry - anti-masons know this, which is why they only use the dictionary definition. Let us now turn to see what the peer reviewed literature from religious scholars says about the definition of religion:

"Religion" then may be defined as any behavior which believers interpret as communication, direct or indirect, between themselves and beings whose existence and activity cannot be verified or falsified but whom the believers believe to exist and to be active, directly or indirectly, in their lives and environment. And a "religion" is defined as the network of reciprocal relationships which a believer, or a group of believers, believes to exist between him, her, or itself and the non-verifiable/non-falsifiable beings which they believe to exist and to be active in their lives.

- Platvoet, J. 1990. The definers defined: Traditions in the definition of religion. Method & Theory in the Study of Religion, 2(2): 180-212.

Any review of the literature shows this definition is widely agreed on by other scholars.

What does this mean? That masonry is not a religion, no matter how feverishly you search through 1,000 dictionary definitions trying to find one to match anti-mason propaganda.

Masonry says that its members must have their own religion - directly, in the ritual - and according to this actual definition of religion, the network of members in masonry do not constitute a religion.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]


reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 10:52 PM by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by Rockpuck



Mods: Please do not delete these large quotes, they are extremely important to examine the veracity of the anti-mason arguments in this thread.

Oh my goodness. I think everyone reading this thread needs to know this. This is the source that mitchelcopper has been pulling from to get his "arguments" against masonry, which Rockpuck found. This source says that the following will happen to masons after initiation - its a little story of what happens to a "mason" after "her" entered apprentice degree:

While Aaron slept, a large winged beast came through the roof. He hovered over Aaron. His huge wings kept him afloat. The beast’s large clawed hands opened Aaron’s robe and raised her hips up to him, her legs falling open. One clawed finger slowly moved her briefs to the side exposing her to him. The beast’s wings moved slowly up and down keeping him hovering in place. His clawed thumbs opened Aaron’s cheeks to him and his wings help lower his member into her. Aaron felt a searing heat in her rectum. Never in her life had she felt anything so painful. Her eyes snapped open and she tried to comprehend what she was seeing. Her hips were levitating in the air. Some grotesque horned monster was writhing in pleasure as he pumped himself into her. She screamed. The monster’s eyes popped open and he looked down at Aaron.


After this, the person that helped initiate "her" comes over and gives her the good news:

Gordon paused for Aaron to absorb his words. He continued, “What you saw tonight, what you experienced, was not a monster. It was an angel—an angel from God. God sends an angel down to those Mason members he wishes to go on to higher degrees. We never know whom He will pick. I couldn’t tell you about the angel before, because I didn’t know if He would come to you. I didn’t know if you would be picked. But, don’t you see?” Gordon got excited. “Don’t you see the significance of this? You have been picked. You have been picked to go on to higher degrees, to come to a higher knowledge of the universe. It may not seem like it tonight, but it is quite an honor to be picked.”

Source: www.blueunicornpublishing.com...

Apparently, someone forgot to tell Gordon that all it takes to get the "higher degrees" is $200, 5 minutes to fill out the application, and a day or two at a Scottish Rtie Reunion. Besides the fact that this is a female, I think this should erase all doubt that the uh, "source" for our little anti-masons argument is quite literally nuts - and anyone who believes in it should have their sanity questioned.

Folks, this is a classical example of the very worst and most outlandish anti-mason propaganda.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]


reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 11:01 PM by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by JoshNorton



There are just so many things I could say to that.

This brings a whole new meaning to "duly prepared."


“Aaron, you cannot be expected to understand what happened tonight. But it will happen six more times.”
“What?” Aaron snapped back.
“You will be visited by the angel from God six more times--once after each of the first Seven Degrees.”

www.blueunicornpublishing.com...

I, for one, missed the whole "getting violently and anally raped 7 times by a demonic monster" which is supposed to go with the first 7 degrees, according to this anti-masonic source. I am unsure how I should feel about this. Did everyone else get this treatment when they did their degrees?

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]


reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 11:04 PM by JoshNorton
reply to post by ALightinDarkness



To be fair, he also has a degree in comparative religion, so it's not like he's not qualified.

But yeah. Thinking of what he'd do with the 24" gauge, or any of the other working tools for that matter. ("You call that a trowel???")



reply posted on 20-6-2008 @ 11:15 PM by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by JoshNorton



He must be the global cabal that rules us all. By any chance does he have a kilt or pictures of unicorns? As you know, I have speculated that the global masonic cabal all the anti-masons talk about is really kilt wearing masonic unicorns, since we have as much evidence for the global cabal as we do of kilt wearing masonic unicorns actually existing.

And just to completely shut down mitchelcopper's arguments, all of the stuff hes quotes from is from a fictional book which says its all made up - although I still question the sanity of anyone to actually write this sort of stuff - the fact that not only did he quote from it, but he believed a book which calls itself fictional is true:

This book is a fiction book. Any resemblance to a person or persons living or dead is purely coincidental. The places, organizations, characters, and situations in this book are only a figment of the author’s imagination and have no basis in fact. This book is to be read as purely entertainment and is not to be construed as historical fact.

www.blueunicornpublishing.com...

And with that final nail in the coffin, NEXT anti-mason please.
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