Freemasonry is NOT a Religion!

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posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


I to believe he is copy/pasting..

Doing random copy/search I came up with one long paragraph word for word taken from:

www.blueunicornpublishing.com...

Where the paragraph was copied without notation.

Oddly.. Ironic that it has Unicorn in the name.. haha..




posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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Straw man yeah straw man. Lets have a look at some masonic monitors. As far as prayers no thanks. All this is out there all you have to do is look. These are quotes from offical monitors on many pro masonic websites. Better luck next time darkness and rockpuck


*SNIP*

All this is out there for those wishing to know the truth. Masonry often refers to itself as 'religion,' meaning that collection of religious truths that form the basis of all religion, but doesn't want to be called 'a religion.' Still, it comes down to definitions. Propose an authoritative definition of the word 'religion' (that is, not just yours) and I'll show you that Masonry meets it.

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 20/6/2008 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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N/M MM got it. Above entering text is the white box with red EX letters, put copied material inside those quote box.


[edit on 6/20/2008 by Rockpuck]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:11 PM
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*SNIP*

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.




[edit on 20/6/2008 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:26 PM
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Lets review what your doing, because I think I may be able to help you with the source of your confusion.

1) Your proclaim Masonry is a religion.
2) You then proceed to post snippets from ritual that show masonry does not praise Jesus Christ
3) You then proclaim that obviously this is wrong, because masonry isn't worshiping your religion of choice.

The problem here is you proclaimed 1, which is not true. It should be unsurprising there is no reverence to any particular religion in masonry, because it is not a religion and as such as no religious dogma. Of course I know your doing this on purpose, but I still wanted to point it out for anyone reading.


Originally posted by mitchelcopper
Of course that is what its members are intended to think about it, even though it doesn't say that at all. It is the generated air of "religiosity" in the lodge room that permeates every bit of its ritual, and well-meaning men are being seduced by heresy. This is why Gallup Polls don't count. What counts is ritual. Reminds me of the analogy to rat poison - 98% good tasting stuff, but it's the 2% that'll kill ya.


I think this is just some sort of rambling rant, but I'll attempt to respond. Just because you want masonry to be a religion and you make up an "air of religion about it" does not actually make masonry a religion. All it actually shows is that you want to believe in the stuff you've made up so badly that you can no longer tell myth from reality.


Originally posted by mitchelcopper
Actually, I have discussed ritual as per ritual - the way it is written. "One size fits all" is exactly how it is intended. Why do supposed nobody is teaching acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior as being what is essentially necessary for gaining admission into heaven in supposed "Christian" lodges?


Actually, you've not discussed anything at all. You have posted paragraphs of ritual and then proclaimed their meaning, but unfortunately for you you've been making what you think they mean up on the fly in order to fit your propaganda.

Once again - and remember your refusal to see reality does not change it - nobody is teaching acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior in masonry because MASONRY IS - GASP - NOT A RELIGION. You will ALSO not find Jesus Christ taught as Lord and Savior in the supermarket, walmart, the classroom, or any other place that is not inside an institution of religion.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Oddly.. Ironic that it has Unicorn in the name.. haha..


Oh my.

*Cue eerie music*

Who knew? The masonic unicorns in kilts...are...WATCHING! ITS A SIGN!




posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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Doublethink is amazing.

Consider your average mason. This is a man who has to believe in a 'God' or higher power to be a member. This person can go down to his local MASONIC TEMPLE, take part in RITUALS around an ALTAR, (an altar with a 'holy book' on it) to be ritually killed and REBORN into the LIGHT as his initiation, and claim that it is not a religion.

Yup. Masonry is definitely NOT a religion. But I guess it depends on how you define the word 'is'...



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by mitchelcopper
Definition of Religion. Funk and Wagnalls' New Standard Dictionary (1941) defines Religion as: "A belief in an invisible superhuman power (or powers), conceived or after the analogy of the human spirit, on which (or whom) man regards himself as dependent, and to which (or whom) he things himself in some degree responsible, together with the feelings and practices which naturally flow from such belief." This comes close to defining Freemasonry as many writers have defined it saying that the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man is the whole story. Freemasonry certainly requires a belief in the existence of, and man's dependence upon, a Supreme Being to whom he is responsible. What can a church add to that, except to bring into one fellowship those who have like feelings? That is exactly what the Lodge does.

I don't buy it.

Religion isn't merely the belief. It's the institution. And in particular, it's the institutionalized worship of deity. You may be right in saying its splitting hairs, but Masonry does not tell you how to worship. It does specify the mortal life, and how man should live it, but does not espouse any specific spiritual reward or afterlife for having lived such a way.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Anti-masons always use the dictionary definition of religion, because they know if they did research on the actual definition of religion proposed by SCHOLARS OF RELIGION that it wouldn't fit their agenda.

***ATTENTION ALL ANTI-MASONS***
The definition of words in dictionaries are meant to be simple, even though we know words have complex meanings. When considered in different contexts, words have completely different meanings. For example, the definition of the word "short" in the dictionary says that short means an attribute related to height. However, when I use the word "short" in terms of the stock market, I mean that I am shorting a stock - betting that it will go down. These two completely different opposite meanings, because one is in a general context and one is in a financial context.

When we talk of religion, we are now moving away from a generalist context and are talking in a religion context. As such, the meaning of religion when we're talking about religion itself is best defined by the scholars of religion - and not the dictionary. The reason why, before anyone shrieks, is what I just mentioned - the true meaning of words are different in context.

Unsurprisingly, the scholarly meaning of religion does not fit masonry - anti-masons know this, which is why they only use the dictionary definition. Let us now turn to see what the peer reviewed literature from religious scholars says about the definition of religion:


"Religion" then may be defined as any behavior which believers interpret as communication, direct or indirect, between themselves and beings whose existence and activity cannot be verified or falsified but whom the believers believe to exist and to be active, directly or indirectly, in their lives and environment. And a "religion" is defined as the network of reciprocal relationships which a believer, or a group of believers, believes to exist between him, her, or itself and the non-verifiable/non-falsifiable beings which they believe to exist and to be active in their lives.

- Platvoet, J. 1990. The definers defined: Traditions in the definition of religion. Method & Theory in the Study of Religion, 2(2): 180-212.

Any review of the literature shows this definition is widely agreed on by other scholars.

What does this mean? That masonry is not a religion, no matter how feverishly you search through 1,000 dictionary definitions trying to find one to match anti-mason propaganda.

Masonry says that its members must have their own religion - directly, in the ritual - and according to this actual definition of religion, the network of members in masonry do not constitute a religion.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by mitchelcopper
Nevertheless, Freemasonry has a Chaplain and a Worshipful Master. Look at how the Worshipful Master functions during the Legend of the Third Degree.
Well, the WM in the 3rd degree takes on the role of King Solomon. So what are you getting at?

As to the duties of the Chaplain, his only other function beyond offering a prayer at the opening and closing of the lodge, or before a meal, is to report on those members or their families who might be in sickness or distress, such that if it were within the religious practices of a given brother, he might choose to pray for the ill brother. You want to light a candle for a guy, go to your church to do it. We'll readily tell you that he's sick, but what you do with that knowledge is between you and your god, and however the two of you communicate.

If Masonry were a religion, wouldn't the Chaplain have a larger role?



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Mods: Please do not delete these large quotes, they are extremely important to examine the veracity of the anti-mason arguments in this thread.

Oh my goodness. I think everyone reading this thread needs to know this. This is the source that mitchelcopper has been pulling from to get his "arguments" against masonry, which Rockpuck found. This source says that the following will happen to masons after initiation - its a little story of what happens to a "mason" after "her" entered apprentice degree:


While Aaron slept, a large winged beast came through the roof. He hovered over Aaron. His huge wings kept him afloat. The beast’s large clawed hands opened Aaron’s robe and raised her hips up to him, her legs falling open. One clawed finger slowly moved her briefs to the side exposing her to him. The beast’s wings moved slowly up and down keeping him hovering in place. His clawed thumbs opened Aaron’s cheeks to him and his wings help lower his member into her. Aaron felt a searing heat in her rectum. Never in her life had she felt anything so painful. Her eyes snapped open and she tried to comprehend what she was seeing. Her hips were levitating in the air. Some grotesque horned monster was writhing in pleasure as he pumped himself into her. She screamed. The monster’s eyes popped open and he looked down at Aaron.


After this, the person that helped initiate "her" comes over and gives her the good news:


Gordon paused for Aaron to absorb his words. He continued, “What you saw tonight, what you experienced, was not a monster. It was an angel—an angel from God. God sends an angel down to those Mason members he wishes to go on to higher degrees. We never know whom He will pick. I couldn’t tell you about the angel before, because I didn’t know if He would come to you. I didn’t know if you would be picked. But, don’t you see?” Gordon got excited. “Don’t you see the significance of this? You have been picked. You have been picked to go on to higher degrees, to come to a higher knowledge of the universe. It may not seem like it tonight, but it is quite an honor to be picked.”

Source: www.blueunicornpublishing.com...

Apparently, someone forgot to tell Gordon that all it takes to get the "higher degrees" is $200, 5 minutes to fill out the application, and a day or two at a Scottish Rtie Reunion. Besides the fact that this is a female, I think this should erase all doubt that the uh, "source" for our little anti-masons argument is quite literally nuts - and anyone who believes in it should have their sanity questioned.

Folks, this is a classical example of the very worst and most outlandish anti-mason propaganda.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


***REDACTED***

[edit on 6/20/2008 by JoshNorton]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


There are just so many things I could say to that.


This brings a whole new meaning to "duly prepared."




“Aaron, you cannot be expected to understand what happened tonight. But it will happen six more times.”
“What?” Aaron snapped back.
“You will be visited by the angel from God six more times--once after each of the first Seven Degrees.”

www.blueunicornpublishing.com...

I, for one, missed the whole "getting violently and anally raped 7 times by a demonic monster" which is supposed to go with the first 7 degrees, according to this anti-masonic source. I am unsure how I should feel about this. Did everyone else get this treatment when they did their degrees?

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


To be fair, he also has a degree in comparative religion, so it's not like he's not qualified.

But yeah. Thinking of what he'd do with the 24" gauge, or any of the other working tools for that matter. ("You call that a trowel???")



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


He must be the global cabal that rules us all. By any chance does he have a kilt or pictures of unicorns? As you know, I have speculated that the global masonic cabal all the anti-masons talk about is really kilt wearing masonic unicorns, since we have as much evidence for the global cabal as we do of kilt wearing masonic unicorns actually existing.

And just to completely shut down mitchelcopper's arguments, all of the stuff hes quotes from is from a fictional book which says its all made up - although I still question the sanity of anyone to actually write this sort of stuff - the fact that not only did he quote from it, but he believed a book which calls itself fictional is true:


This book is a fiction book. Any resemblance to a person or persons living or dead is purely coincidental. The places, organizations, characters, and situations in this book are only a figment of the author’s imagination and have no basis in fact. This book is to be read as purely entertainment and is not to be construed as historical fact.

www.blueunicornpublishing.com...

And with that final nail in the coffin, NEXT anti-mason please.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:32 PM
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posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:43 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:46 PM
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Masonic lodges appoint their own chaplains. Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge about the offices and stations of lodges knows this, so your condescension regarding a straw man situation of your own making is ludicrous.

Further, the Dept of Defense, the Supremes of Nebraska, or any other supposed source you might come up with has no bearing on the matter. Two facts about whether Freemasonry is a religion:
1. Its own recognized authority - perhaps the greatest Masonic authority of all time - Albert G. Mackey says it is, along with other Masonic scholars; and
2. Its Grand Lodges keep trying to say the opposite. Once again, somewhat ludicrous in light of the fact that virtually all of them listed Mackey's encyclopedia on their recommended reading lists.

So, it isn't about military chaplains, tombstones, or Supremes. It is about bona fide definitions of religion, such as the one that Coil applied in determining that, yes, Freemasonry is a religion.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 





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