Freemasonry is NOT a Religion!

page: 1
7
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:46 AM
link   
Freemasonry, as an organization endures ridicule on all fronts. Being accused of a varying amount of conspiracies, essentially to summarize it, if there has ever been a conspiracy somehow, someway Masonry was involved.

Of course, this is absurd. This all seems to stem from misconceptions on "what is Masonry" .. Is it a religion? What is it's structure? What are the beliefs? Isn't possible, no matter how remote that there COULD BE a secret Cabal running Masonry for subversive means?

I hope to expand upon the misconceptions I see most often on ATS, in the hopes to open peoples minds and allow a fresh outlook on Masonry.

Is Masonry a Religion? - Short answer: no Long answer: Freemasonry is many things to many people, and I will never deny that there have been a few in our history who have thought Masonry WAS a religion. Freemasonry holds no Dogma.. we command our men to do good works for the sake of developing their own person .. however we do not offer reprocutions, we do not offer salvation, we simply offer the command to do good because it's the right thing to do. To join Freemasonry YOU MUST subscribe to SOME KIND of religion .. how ever loose the religious institution you belong to does not matter, so long as you accept and respect the Deity you worship. Essentially this means unlimited faiths belong to Masonry, which would make a singular dogmatic concept entirely impossible.

Freemasonry commands Family and God comes before Masonry. We expect Masonry to further your belief in your OWN religion, be it Christian, Jewish, Pagan, Deist.. doesn't matter.

So If Masonry is Not a Religion, What is It?!?! A structured fraternity, essentially. Not a religious institution. It is however, an institution that expands on certain philosophies.. philosophies are not religious beliefs, but rather ideas inspired by man, not God. Philosophies can, of course be good or bad, depending on your prospective. The Masonic Philosophies are represented in the form of Degrees.. to impress upon a candidate the importance of these ideas, and we expect all Masons to conform to the philosophies of the institution .. which is why unethical behavior is quickly punished in Masonry..

Fine, So it's Not a Religion, But Why Rituals Then?? A ritual is essentially something done repeatedly as a custom, to impress upon someone an idea, a belief, a concept, or even a habitual action. Brushing your teeth is a ritual. Accepting Communion is a ritual. Going to church on Sunday, is technically a ritual.. Freemasonry's rituals can seem incredibly weird from an outside perspective. I was in the Master Mason Degree 3 times before I even saw it (used and abused I was, I always end up being the candidate for inspection...) And trust me, it is something you will never experience anywhere else in this day and age.. Is it Wrong? No. Is it Scary? Of course, that's the point.. to blindly and completely, unconditionally trust strangers.. I can guarantee no where in the World will you find a test like that, other then Masonry.

All This "Brother" Talk, It's Kinda Cult Like?.. This one I take personally, because no one understands it, it seems anyways. I was out with friends one night, and there was a guy with us who I had never met before, and turned out to be a Mason. But because he was a Mason, I was a Mason, and we could swap stories and experiences and talk about our respective lodges we could call each other Brother knowing full well we traveled the same path. I once was sitting at a restaurant table and our waiter was in my Scottish Rite class .. Never had a full conversation with him prior, but knowing we traveled the same path, we where brothers and had much to talk about. I can think of no institution, no religion, no other fraternity that brings Human Kind together in such a way. That where ever your travels bring you, there is a Lodge, and Masons all over the place that you can create instant friends. The use of the word Brother is simply recognition of equality, my Brothers are my equal and I recognize them as such.

So, Who is the Head of ALL Masons? - Nobody. Freemasonry is a DIRECT DEMOCRACY. Something so many WISH we had in America. The Officers of the lodges in any given state elect the Grand Lodge. The Grand Lodge operates the same way a normal lodge will, with one year terms.

Ok, But Isn't Possible for There to Be a Ultra Secret Masonic Cabal Dictating Masonry? - Yes AND No. No, there can never be a "head of all masonic cabal" because that is not how our structure is formed. It is very possible however that someone in the Grand Lodge is corrupt and steals money, or partakes in shady business practices. The Masonic Grand Lodges are so regulated by the IRS that it seems highly unlikely. And if you ever get the chance to see a Communication you will see, a negative income flow from the Grand Lodge is enough to spark a riot. Stealing money would thus be unwise. But again, it's possible, I imagine it has happened before as well. Individual Lodges are more easier to "corrupt" in the sense that it's less regulated. Usually the heads of lodges and those who partake in Officer positions are the ones who care about Masonry so deeply they would rather die then betray the institution. BUT it IS Possible. Any institution can have such corruption.

Many Anti Masons seem to think there is this secret collage of super wealthy Masons who run the show and steal the money. There isn't. IF there is a conspiracy of a group of Masons stealing money, they are not doing it for the lodges, they do it for themselves and are not acting for the benefit of Masonry, and do not represent Masonry. It is no different then Clergy members raping kids.. they are not true Christians, they do NOT represent Christians, and they don't do it for the sake of the Church.

Secrecy Cannot Be Trusted!!!! - Sure it can. Secrecy, and Privacy are different, it is not the public's business to watch our meetings, our degrees or anything of the likes. The actual "secret" is not so much a secret, but rather the entire collection of philosophies we have to live by. Truly something only understand unless you actually partake in the degree, if YOU are the candidate. Not all Masons feel the secret, but those that do never forget it (ah, forgot to mention, the secret can be explained in words, though different to every Mason, it is essentially a feeling experienced in the degree work). There is no "secret" in the sense of "I know something you don't know!"

Why Are So Many Powerful People Masons? - The rich and the famous.. are eccentric. Most Masons, if you have not been able to tell are more on the eccentric side.. We are "different" in how we think, act and so forth.. Masonry does not make a man powerful, instead powerful men join Masonry because it fits their personality. I am yet to meet a man who attributes his success to Masonry.

Pagans! It's Not Compatible With Christianity! - Sure it is! There are Pagans in Masonry, there are Jews and Christians, Muslims and Buddhist, Gnostic's and Deist! .. Masonry is only a school of philosophies and has nothing to do with religion .. If Freemasonry did lead you away from your religion, then you where never really a believer to begin with. There is not a single lesson in Freemasonry that would go against ANY religions teachings!

Compatible With Christianity, Then Why NO Mention Of Christ???

Freemasonry, while completely compatible with Christianity, is NOT Christian in any way .. it is void of religion. The Great Creator is in reference to a Universal God, represented by the many thousands of names, given by the faiths among the Masonic population to represent this singular God. We do NOT delve into theological beliefs, so any reference to one religion in particular is not accepted, and even considered illegal. When I say Great Creator, I think of my God, a Christian thinks of his, and we as Masons accept that both of our Gods are one in the same, represented by different names based on how we our selves perceive the Lord. No two peoples religious beliefs are the same, and as such no one persons views should EVER be forced upon anyone.

Masonry And ..... Politics? - NO. Freemasonry is not involved in Politics. Our political beliefs vary to every possible spectrum of the political range that, it literally would be impossible to get people to accept on political belief.

What Ever, I STILL Don't Like Masonry! - I don't expect everyone to like Masonry. We will all admit, it is NOT for everyone.. But for that man who is searching for something more, Masonry is there. For those in search of the light, Masonry is there.

I would suggest reading real Masonic sources, and develop a better understanding of the people before you spout hatred and bigotry. There is nothing more unbecoming of a man, then to hate, shout and insult a people you know nothing about.. Vile is hatred, bigotry and ignorance, don't succumb to it and be enveloped in it.. and most importantly.. accept

Tolerance!!!

To those different then you. Thank you for reading!

-Steve, Master Mason.


[edit on 6/20/2008 by Rockpuck]




posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 10:59 AM
link   
YES, Freemasonry ** IS ** a religion


Masonry - Behind Closed Doors

"Freemasonry is indeed a Religion"

And It is very important to know it because when a organisation are falsly represented
them self to mislead the population, that is call a conspiracy, and only
shows freemasonry will to manipulate, and use their adepts in their '' Temples ''
like any Cult do, scientology, jehova witness, raelliens ect.

a lot of Freemason would ** NOT ** have choose to get in, if Freemasonry would
have been honest with them by telling them they ARE A RELIGIOUS CULT

Honesty should be respected from everybody in the world without exeptions

i think, Freemasonry is the most dangerous Cult because. it dishonestly, mislead
profanes ( like they call us ) by hiding they are a cult, disguised under a
fraternal organisation front. Cults always used brainwash tecniques to make
followers beleive the see something else then what they have in front of them

The freemason, Abert Pike wrote in the freemason book ( moral and dogma )

"Every Masonic lodge is a TEMPLE of RELIGION; and its teachings are
instruction in RELIGION...MASONRY, LIKE ALL RELIGIONS, all the
Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except
the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and
misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead...to conceal the Truth, which it
calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it... The truth must be
kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their
imperfect reason… every man's conception of God must be proportioned
to his mental cultivation, and intellectual powers, and moral excellence.
God is, as man conceives him, the reflected image of man himself."

and Albert Pike explained in Morals & Dogma how the true nature of
Freemasonry is kept a secret from Masons of lower degrees:

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the TEMPLE. Part
of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally
misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand
them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their
true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry... It is
well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is
contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will
labor in vain."

Thank You

RoadWario 31



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:25 AM
link   
reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


Cults follow a charismatic leader. Who do Freemasons follow?



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:37 AM
link   
Glad to see you took the time to read.



Maybe I didn't put Tolerance in big enough letters?



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 11:40 AM
link   
reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


ahhh once again people refuse to listen to what others say and twist other peoples words to make sure that their perception of an answer is right. Masonry doesn't make you believe in anything? i don't remember anywhere in the degree's that they tell you to believe in someone or something (except the belief in a GOD before you join). we don't pound a belief system into other peoples heads, and if they don't believe it then there is a punishment. YOU get out of masonry what YOU put into it.

that means that freemasonry is subjective in nature and that your definition and views and judgments about masonry are your own. it's not a set standard of rules that you must believe in.

For the most part in my lodge RELIGION, politics, and so forth are not aloud to be talked about IN lodge. Why? everyone has a different religious background and we want to respect that, and that's same with politics. Of course two masons outside of lodge could talk about religion, but never inside the lodge room.

IMO i oppose any structure of religion. Why? because i think people don't need to be taught to remember who they are and how to talk to God (who is in them, but the church has taken God out of man and put him in a church, but that's for another topic). What i like about masonry is that as long as you believe in some higher power or being, then that's all that matters you dont have to believe in the Catholic, Christian, Mormon, etc.. God or philosophies for you to be able to join. We are not here to judge your religious beliefs whatsoever.

I still think that people don't understand the true nature of Freemasonry in the United States. We are a Fraternal organization that practice's Charity. we are NOT a religion, we are a Fraternity.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 02:01 PM
link   
Let me start off by stating that I am a very spiritual person, I am in touch with myself and with other powers. This is not intended to be a shot at Masons, or siding with them. I am very open minded, these are just my personal opinions based upon the knowledge I possess.

Any organization that claims to worship any singular "God" is a religious institution. If what you say is true that god comes before Masonry, then what Masons have done is collect the core beliefs found in every singular deity religion and compacted it so that all religions can correspond without wars breaking out. Philosophy inevitably entails religious beliefs, and for the Masons to state that individual religious beliefs are not discussed is absurd. To worship "God" but not discuss the specifics doesn't make much sense to me, and is probably where a lot of confusion comes in with other individuals as well.

I do not disagree with the Masonic foundation's ideals. My personal beliefs are contrary to a belief in "God", however. I am very passionate about my spirituality and I can understand the need for secrecy when it comes to a different point of view from the majority. I find it ironic that in a world striving for peace, resolution, harmony, equality, eco-friendliness, etc. that any belief system founded outside of the accepted organizations are frowned upon in ignorance. In personal experience I have had an arduous time finding employment several times for the way I look and the fact that I'm honest and forward with my beliefs, even though I express them in a very non-offensive manner. At times I know I've offended people unwillingly, and I have apologized to those who have expressed their hurt. Yet when someone says something relative to a certain religion and I disagree I'm an asshole, ignorant, or evil. All this despite the fact that I have read several different religions "holy" documents, have read many articles, books, and spoken with many other educated people about religions. I have based my own beliefs on my own conclusions of what I've been told and read, as I believe everyone needs to do before their opinions are validated. I can empathize with Rockpuck's disgust at the ignorance in this world, and while we do not see eye to eye I respect the fact that you went through the effort to try and give the rest of us an idea of what Masons do. I learned something new from this and so I think this was a great thread. Kudos! For those claiming this is all "lies", consider this: every individual has founded their belief system based on what they have learned to that point in their life, including you. Any religious belief is philosophical and cannot be proven so they are equally as correct as you are, more so if they are not bathing in ignorance.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 02:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Freemasonry, as an organization endures ridicule on all fronts. Being accused of a varying amount of conspiracies, essentially to summarize it, if there has ever been a conspiracy somehow, someway Masonry was involved.


Poor babies! J'ya wanna lollipop?

"endures ridicule"

As an organization?

No. More like scorn or contempt.

As an individual?

Yes.

More often than not though, you've been the ridiculer.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 02:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by Road Warrior 31


The freemason, Abert Pike wrote in the freemason book ( moral and dogma )


"Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it." - Morals and Dogma, p. 161

'Nuff said.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 02:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
No. More like scorn or contempt.

As an individual?

Yes.

More often than not though, you've been the ridiculer.


Coming from you, the irony of this statement is so sweet. Sitting back and taking pot shots, running when anyone asks you to provide evidence...oh the sweet irony. I've got to put you back on ignore now before your posts kill me with laughter.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 02:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
Coming from you, the irony of this statement is so sweet.


You're right.

I noticed that myself right after I had posted it.

See, I'm not that hard to get along with.

[EDIT: in fact - I've since realized - my entire post was an exercise in hypocrisy]

[edit on 20-6-2008 by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 02:49 PM
link   
For the record, I'm not a Mason. And I'm not anti-Mason in the least.

I know many people who are devoutly religious (Christian, Buddhist, Jewish) who are Masons. They do not seem conflicted, nor do they place Masonry before their own personal beliefs.

Rockpuck, your brief essay was informative and enlightened. By contrast, roadwarrior provides no thoughtful reasoning to support his view that Masonry is, in fact, a corrupt cult. Quotes taken out of context do not equate to critical thinking.

I do have a question, though, and if this has already been addressed somewhere, forgive me. Is roadwarrior correct in his assertion that non-Masons are referred to, either collectively or individually, as "profanes?"

Thanks,

articulus



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 02:50 PM
link   
Your making it hard for me to put you back on ignore, fire. Lets have a truce for a while before we get back to hating each other, I think there may be a shot yet at me and you having a conversation yet.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 02:55 PM
link   
No we do not consider Nonmasons as "profane" ..

We don't call them anything. People I guess..



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 02:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
I think there may be a shot yet at me and you having a conversation yet.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]


Perhaps.

But you really should try self-deprecation some time. It's quite liberating.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 03:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by articulus
I do have a question, though, and if this has already been addressed somewhere, forgive me. Is roadwarrior correct in his assertion that non-Masons are referred to, either collectively or individually, as "profanes?"
If I recall correctly, profane translates from latin as "not of the temple." (I might be slightly off on this, but I did come across it recently...) For a Mason to refer to a non-Mason as profane simply means they haven't been through the same initiations a Mason has. It's not a derogatory term, simply a descriptor.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 03:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by articulus


I do have a question, though, and if this has already been addressed somewhere, forgive me. Is roadwarrior correct in his assertion that non-Masons are referred to, either collectively or individually, as "profanes?"



Yes, but the word is used in Masonry in its original sense. The Latin "profanus" literally means "before the temple", i.e., one who has not yet been initiated. This terminology, as used in Masonry, therefore carries no negative connotations.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 03:49 PM
link   
Short question here - not directly related to the OP, but nevertheless kinda religious... (and hardly worth a new thread)

It is my understanding that when Masons meet as a Lodge there is a Bible on the alter with a compass resting on it. The Bible passage, and the compass position change depending if the Lodge is open in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree.

If the majority of the Masons present are not Christians, how does this differ?

In a lodge, say in Saudi Arabia or Malaysia, do they emphasize different passages of the Koran for each degree?

thx in advance and sorry RockPunk for this slight diversion



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 04:24 PM
link   
I will only interject once at that is it.
For all of those who would be led astray by the evils of freemasonry who are reading this thread and possibly contemplating joining the Masons I would tell you to simply do your research and come to your own conclusions.
It would be well advised to purposely seek out opinions of those who have been freemasons in the past and have since gotten out of it, as well
as those who are still involved in it.
Notice the stark contrast in statements and opinions. Research All you can find, conspiracy and non conspiracy related material.
Notice the stark contrast in statements and ideas.
Watch a video or two on you tube, both pro Mason and antimason in nature.
Notice the stark contrast in statements and ideas.
Ask yourself why are there such horrible things being put forth about this
organization that I am about to join.
Ask yourself why are the masons so friendly?
They might have a vested intrest in recruting members,
or they might be a legitimate brotherhood.
Either way,
DO NOT let these people form your opinion for you.
DO NOT let me or others who are opposed to the Masons form your opinion for you!!!
Come to your own conclusions after diligent research.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 04:24 PM
link   
First ML: Where or rather when are non masons referred to as Profane in Masonry? I cannot recall ever hearing that word used.

CN23:



It is my understanding that when Masons meet as a Lodge there is a Bible on the alter with a compass resting on it. The Bible passage, and the compass position change depending if the Lodge is open in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree.


This is true, they are placed differently on the Bible depending on the degree.

In a majority non-Christian Lodge the ritual would probably (i have never been to a different kind of Lodge so I speculate) differ in the sense of the passages used to convey the message. So yes, a different text would be used.

I highly, highly doubt Muslim Lodges use the Bible. Then again, I have never been to one, but I cannot see why they would. the only reason the Bible is used in Christian Lodges is that it is an easy way to make the parable .. since most are Christian, they understand the Bible.

And it's Rockpuck not Rockpunk lol.. and it wasn't that big of a diversion.



posted on Jun, 20 2008 @ 04:31 PM
link   
reply to post by cbass
 




For all of those who would be led astray by the evils of freemasonry who are reading this thread and possibly contemplating joining the Masons I would tell you to simply do your research and come to your own conclusions.


I to, would highly suggest people do their own research. If you find the ideologies of the Freemasons evil, we quite simply don't want you. Masonry accepts it's members, not the other way around.




Notice the stark contrast in statements and opinions. Research All you can find, conspiracy and non conspiracy related material.


The contrast most often seen is that Antimasons tend to be fundamentalist of certain religions, or they tend to distrust anything and everything. They also tend to have never even attempted to research what Freemasonry even is.. where as a Freemason will give you the experience and knowledge he has as being a member.


Watch a video or two on you tube, both pro Mason and antimason in nature.
Notice the stark contrast in statements and ideas.


And you'll see facts (we have no reason to lie) and wild speculation, drawn from wild speculative sources.



Ask yourself why are there such horrible things being put forth about this


And don't forget to look for the secret agenda of the author..



Ask yourself why are the masons so friendly?


Making Good Men Better.



They might have a vested intrest in recruting members,


It is against Masonic Law to recruit members.. we can put information out there, sure, but a member must always make the innitial effort to contact THEIR lodge. I cannot even assist in the recruitment of a member not in my own state, let alone city.



Come to your own conclusions after diligent research.


Indeed.





new topics
top topics
 
7
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join