Louisiana About to Pass Law to Teach Creationism!!

reply to post by Anomander


Good point, but one thing about evolution bothers me: Where did everything start from? Im not talking about the big bang or anything like that..... Im talking about before that time..... where has everything come from, how was it made? That seems to be the question evolution cant really answer.
If someone can give me a good explanation of that please do.

-fm

Originally posted by maria_stardust
reply to post by GradyPhilpott

 

I beg to differ. There is a huge difference between science-backed knowledge and religious belief. You can't equate the two. Once is grounded in fact, while the other requires a leap of faith.

It also does matter if it's taught in public schools. Teaching a belief that dictates the world was created in six days as a sort of pseudo-fact is going to confuse children.

If parents want their children taught creationism, or intelligent design or the doctrine of the Flying Speghetti Monster, then have them learn it at home or church.

Or, better yet, present at the college level. At least this way, the students will be old enough to make an informed decision as to which version best suits their personal beliefs.

Maria, that is Christianity, not creationism. They're not the same thing. I believe in creation, but I'm anti-Christianity. I will not profess to know how we came to know about, but just like you firmly believe in evolution, I firmly believe in a universal consciousness which either created everything or "assisted" or "interfered" with creation and life since creation.

To be honest what can you teach about creation? If you teach about 6day creation, then you are teaching Christianity and I'll agree with you that teaching Christianity does not belong in science class. To be honest I don't believe teaching about our origins (however we came about) should be done in science class as I detailed in another topic.

Quite interesting (and a little ironic) that you have/choose the name Maria . The same goes for madnessinmysoul (who does not believe he has a soul I think)

Originally posted by maria_stardust
reply to post by GradyPhilpott

 

I beg to differ. There is a huge difference between science-backed knowledge and religious belief. You can't equate the two. Once is grounded in fact, while the other requires a leap of faith.

It also does matter if it's taught in public schools. Teaching a belief that dictates the world was created in six days as a sort of pseudo-fact is going to confuse children.

If parents want their children taught creationism, or intelligent design or the doctrine of the Flying Speghetti Monster, then have them learn it at home or church.

Or, better yet, present at the college level. At least this way, the students will be old enough to make an informed decision as to which version best suits their personal beliefs.

Maria, that is Christianity, not creationism. They're not the same thing. I believe in creation, but I'm anti-Christianity. I will not profess to know how we came about, but just like you firmly believe in evolution, I firmly believe in a universal consciousness which either created everything or "assisted" or "interfered" with creation and life since creation.

To be honest what can you teach about creation? If you teach about 6day creation, then you are teaching Christianity and I'll agree with you that teaching Christianity does not belong in science class. To be honest I don't believe teaching about our origins (however we came about) should be done in science class as I detailed in another topic.

Quite interesting (and a little ironic) that you have/choose the name Maria . The same goes for madnessinmysoul (who does not believe he has a soul I think)

[edit on 23-6-2008 by Lannock]

reply to post by funky monk


As I understand it, the theory of evolution is rather concerned with what happened after life started, the mechanism involved in that. Not before, or what was before that. I believe abiogenesis deals with the very question of how life originated (whether that was at the hand of God, a higher power, aliens, the universe, take your pick). After that, evolution takes over.

Science seeks answers, and I believe there is a logical, exhaustive process in its methods. I don't think it has found answers as to how life originated, and what was before life, not yet anyway, but it seeks still.

"Creationism" on the other hand claims it has the answer. A higher power (let's not call it God) is at the origin of it all. All I want to see is the [scientific] methods used to come to this conclusion.

As I have said before, since "creationism" wants a place in the field of science, then it has to follow that scientific methodology, not its own rules. If "creationism" can successfully do that, then it deserves to be taught in science class. Until then, its not a scientific theory, so it belongs in a philosophy class or something.

Honestly, when someone mentions creation the book of Genesis springs to mind, and this is God we're talking about here. How can religion be avoided if God is brought into it?

This "creationism" model (involving the God of the bible) is the one I see proposed more so than any other. Can the bible possibly be a scientific textbook? (I have in mind here the fact that at times we are told to take things as metaphores, and other times to take literally what we are reading. Which is it? It can't be both, if the bible is to be considered a scientific textbook. That would be "creationism" following its own rules).

reply to post by Anomander


Point taken and thanks for the good reply. To be honest when you think about it creationism doesnt really rule out evolution....... but I still cant accept the idea that we were made out of thousends of years of evolution and not God.

Thanks for being so civilised about the discussion Anomander, not many people seem to be able to do that these days.

-fm

reply to post by funky monk


As far as I see it, the idea of creationism was invented when people were new to a mono-God. Christianity was new. It was all exciting and revolutionary and inspiring.People thought about the things that they have always thought about, but within this new context of christian God. Sure they may have borrowed some ideas to get going, but they forged their own trail, and the end result of the christian creatism story (genesis), probably filled everyones needs as an explanation 'at that time'.
We are now 1600 years further down the road of learning. We've had the enlightenment, and science permeates every facet of our existance. Science is a way that we can quantify the universe around us, so we can better understand it. That is all that science is. There is nothing to be afraid of - it is interested in uncovering truth. Why would you be afraid of the truth? It does not matter if you are muslim or christian or atheist, you can contribute to, and learn from the pool of collective knowledge that is science.
This is why it is import that science is taught correctly to kids. Don't teach them dogma or superstition. You do not have to give them religion to teach them morals. If we can stop people passing off fiction as truth to children, they will grow up with open minds.
Science is not a de-beautifying of the world, as a lot of religious folks think, and you don't have to end your belief in your saviour or your God. The world and the universe are mesmerisingly beautiful even from the perspective of a 'godless' scientist. There are many hidden wonders and beauties in the universe, just waiting to be found by new explorers. But to explore, you have to leave the safety of the shore and head out on your own.
I mean seriously, do you really think that God doesn't want you to explore or understand his wonderful universe??
The church certainly doesn't want you to!

Originally posted by cruzion
reply to post by funky monk

 

As far as I see it, the idea of creationism was invented when people were new to a mono-God. Christianity was new. It was all exciting and revolutionary and inspiring.People thought about the things that they have always thought about, but within this new context of christian God. Sure they may have borrowed some ideas to get going, but they forged their own trail, and the end result of the christian creatism story (genesis), probably filled everyones needs as an explanation 'at that time'.

....

This is why it is import that science is taught correctly to kids. Don't teach them dogma or superstition. You do not have to give them religion to teach them morals. If we can stop people passing off fiction as truth to children, they will grow up with open minds.

Science is not a de-beautifying of the world, as a lot of religious folks think, and you don't have to end your belief in your saviour or your God. The world and the universe are mesmerisingly beautiful even from the perspective of a 'godless' scientist. There are many hidden wonders and beauties in the universe, just waiting to be found by new explorers. But to explore, you have to leave the safety of the shore and head out on your own.
I mean seriously, do you really think that God doesn't want you to explore or understand his wonderful universe??
The church certainly doesn't want you to!

Hold on for a sec...... I honestly think God wants me to explore his universe and the church I go to (Im Baptist, but more Penticostal) doesnt really care if I do so or not.
Ive been thinking about things a lot this week (because of this thread, among others) and have been wondering why cant God have made creation through evolution? I mean, its probably an old discusssion but it actualy makes a lot of sence. If you look at Genesis guess what animals come first? The creatures of the sea and air come first, then the land animals come, and after that comes man (its all there in Genesis 1). So in a way I guess it makes a lot of sence.
I think the idea of "creationism" as some people put it came without people actualy thinking about it. I mean.... God didnt just think and all of a sudden we have lil animals and people running all over this planet..... he doesnt seem to do things like that.

-fm

reply to post by funky monk


Why did God create all animals (and humans) with only two blood types?
You would think in all his omnipotent and incalculable wisdom that he could have used more than just red and blue.
I mean sure, people thought about it. People have always wondered "where did I come from?", "what happens to me when I die?", "who's in charge of everything?", "what is over the horizon?", "is there a God?".
That's the reason we invented religion.
Evolution has it sea/land/air...

[edit on 26-6-2008 by cruzion]

Originally posted by Fathom
reply to post by eric52081

 

Sorry, I just don't see the problem with teaching creationism and evolution. If you teach one you must teach the other.
cheers,

Fathom

Yes, totally fair and make sense. Let's also teach both in Churches, Christian Colleges, Sunday Schools etc etc etc.

Originally posted by iesus_freak
reply to post by eric52081

 

i think that it is good to teach children creationism im a believer and even if it is fake like evoution it stimulates their creativty way more

Again very true, that's why we have to also teach both in Churches, Christian Colleges, Sunday Schools etc etc etc.

God created creatures that then evolved. You're both right. Now hush.

(A non concerned Louisiana resident)

Originally posted by funky monk

hrmmmm, I think its fine to teach creationism.... but it needs to be taught along side evolution, both sides of the argument need to be taught as well as other theories.
Evolution might be supported by a lot of people but so is creationism, and people cant really put creatioinists in a box with religious types..... I know a few people that believe in some type of creation and they are far from religious. Considering that you might argue that a lot of religious people might want creationism taught to their kids..... and just like all the athiests out there they have the same right to want their belief system taught because really thats all it comes down to: a belief system.

-fm

Yet again, another supporter for equal education and fair opportunity, let's also teach both in Churches, Christian Colleges, Sunday Schools etc etc etc.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

(I will join later, I have no need for anonymity)

I am a degreed electronics engineer, trained to use rigid controls to solve problems. I MUST do that, because that is what my job requires.

Darwin's theory has always been interesting to me, but over time, his ideas have repeatedly failed to meet the rigid tests of legitimate science. In my opinion "evolution" should NO LONGER be taught, because it has failed to explain anything at all. It appears to be one of the more idiotic explanations ever hatched, and to keep trying to force it down a child's mind is a form of child abuse.

Religion seems to not be any better, of course.

Come on folks, do it for the kids! Get rid of Darwin once and for all.

Bob H

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by GradyPhilpott

(I will join later, I have no need for anonymity)

I am a degreed electronics engineer, trained to use rigid controls to solve problems. I MUST do that, because that is what my job requires.

Darwin's theory has always been interesting to me, but over time, his ideas have repeatedly failed to meet the rigid tests of legitimate science. In my opinion "evolution" should NO LONGER be taught, because it has failed to explain anything at all. It appears to be one of the more idiotic explanations ever hatched, and to keep trying to force it down a child's mind is a form of child abuse.

Religion seems to not be any better, of course.

Come on folks, do it for the kids! Get rid of Darwin once and for all.

Bob H

Bob H,

don't think your idea is good. I hold both evolution and creationism in high regards. There is only two choices, teach everything, everywhere to everybody, or teach your own ideology/science whatever, to your own audience at your own location. Denying education to our kids is not the way.

I live in Louisiana, and have for 40 years. That is until I finish my house in Miss. Not that Miss. is any better. IMO Jindal is the one of the least qualified gov the state has had in a long time. Now he's burning all the suckers that voted for him. I go out my way to remind the few brave enough to still ride around with his sticker on their car. We would be better off with Edwards again. At least with him, you knew where you stood.

As far all this creationism nonsense in public schools. Who cares as I don't know anyone who lets there kids go to public schools in my area (N.O.) anymore. That is, without a glock and a vest.

I personally didn't like it when they RAMMED religion down my throat some 20+ years ago when I attended public/private schools in this state. and I don't want them teaching it to my children (Home Schooled). Maybe if they would have taught us more about reading, writing and arithmetic and less about religion my forum post wouldn't suffer so much.

Creationism, religion, there all the same to me. A bunch of hokus pokus. I find it easier to believe aliens started this whole thing. Don't even get me started about the pedophiles, I mean priest. Now don't get me wrong I believe in a higher power. I just chose not put $ in your hat so you can give me your take on it, or read it in a way overrated book. I will definitely not Force it on my children the way it was done to me.

This state's cities are much like the rest of the cities in this country. Over populated, violent, oozing cesspools for disease, drugs and gangs. It's just a matter of time before the empire comes falling down. History proves this.
So why should La. be any different? I cant wait to move to the middle of the woods.


Wow, religion and La, politics in the same thread. That's 2 to many...



[edit on 11-7-2008 by john-Q]

[edit on 11-7-2008 by john-Q]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by GradyPhilpott

 

I tell you what, you can teach creationism in school by law when scientists can teach evolution in church, BY LAW!
You have the rest of the day to indoctrinate your own children, keep away from mine!
End of story.

EXACTLY what I say! Evolution the states religion to advance Atheism and why no concept of intelligent anything considered and why any challenge of Darwin is ridiculed with extreme prejudice.

I don't care if they teach both but where in the hell do you get off saying God is about Religion, how the hell do YOU know!

What Religion is God about ?

If Science found one ( a God) out there I guess they just have to tell him don't call us we'll call you.

- Con

Dont we have enough misinformation taught in public schools. Creationism is a belief with no fact base behind it. Whats next unicorns

According to Dictionary ,a Creationist is someone who believes in a god who is absolute creator of heaven and earth, out of nothing, by an act of free will.

Originally posted by Gigantopithecus

Originally posted by iesus_freak
reply to post by eric52081

 

i think that it is good to teach children creationism im a believer and even if it is fake like evoution it stimulates their creativty way more

Again very true, that's why we have to also teach both in Churches, Christian Colleges, Sunday Schools etc etc etc.

I think your right gig, we should teach both in public schools and churchs etc.

- Con

Originally posted by Drakula
Dont we have enough misinformation taught in public schools. Creationism is a belief with no fact base behind it. Whats next unicorns

as if Darwinian evolution has any facts to back it up. Just show me a fact that transmutation to another species ever took place

Oh and spare me the mountains of evidence crap, I have heard em all. Just show me one and please, no micro to substantiate macro, just trying to save you the time.

- Con