We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

Of course we're omnivores. There is a little thing you have to take into account and that's the evolution mankind has been through. We've changed over the years with nature and as such we've become the kind we are today. We need meat because that's what made our brains the size it is today, capable of storing and evolving to the level of intelligence it is today.

Meat is as important as water to our species. Till we grow teeth like cows, I don't want to hear that we're not meant to eat meat. It's obvious that we STILL have teeth as proof that we ARE omnivores and we did eat a lot more meat in the past.

This is our design, like it or not, that's what we are. When you have teeth like a cow and the stomach(s) as well for good measure, give me call.

Till then we're meant to eat EALTHY and should eat what's good for us. If we have a variety of food groups in our diets, it will make our live a lot more healthier.

Just picture your stomach as a muscle, it needs to work out and that means Burger King won't work. Red meat is hard for the stomach to digest, since we're not dinosaurs and fortunately don't have to walk around with a small bag of rocks to swallow in order to digest our food, we're meant to eat red mean sparingly. So, before we all think of Chickens we should also remember the FISH.

There's a lot of choices out there, but going Vegan will most certainly ruin your life. Vegan, pregnant women are causing such serious damages to their unborn children that it's simply ridicules.

But then the choice is yours, if you want to live as a Vegan, it's up to you. If you think eating a dog is wrong, then you need to wake up. Just cause we anthropomorphically related to all cute animals, shouldn't Rabbits, Guinea Pigs and Cows also join this "awwww how cute' club?

Hmm, right, so when people in Asia eat Dogs, they eat it because they're millions of dogs there. And we eat Cows, package them and slap a sticker onto it saying "2 FOR the Price of 1!". I wonder for the East Indians, who think the Cow is a Holy creature, what do you think it must feel like that we do these things?

So... you might become VEGETARIAN because you love Animals, that's your choice. But you can't escape that you still NEED the vitamins, proteins etc. from animals. You can't survive on vitamins alone.

Sure, I can show you something that would break your heart seeing, might even make a few of you vegetarians, but you CANNOT, MUST NOT forget we are NOT designed to eat plants exclusively.

Watch this :
www.chooseveg.com...

Then when you're done ask the right questions... Like WHY are we being so CRUEL to these animals? And then ask, is there a better more peaceful way to end their lives?

Sure there is, but see, Burger King et al. are all forcing beef companies to employ the worst people and worst kind of methods.

Blame MASS PRODUCTION and not the idea. Because we need meat, just not in the fashion we're mass producing it.

Don't stop eating meat, just start making sure you know WHAT you're eating and where it's coming from. Certain farms are taking care of their animals, letting them live a better life. The free range animals are the right choice.

Alec Baldwin in the end says don't eat meat, (I'm sure he didn't get that fat on corn) just eat responsibly and make sure you support the right people.

I know our system today is forcing people to buy the cheapest meat out there coming from such butchers, but if you care about it, you'll start making an exception and start buying from the right places.

S'all...

End of Rant...



[edit on 16-6-2008 by Element-115]

Originally posted by Lecter

Originally posted by Electro38
It is known that the reason why prehistoric man's brains were able to grow larger is due to the fact the we started to eat meat. Because plants have cell walls, plant matter is harder to digest and requires a lot of blood flow to the abdomen during digestion.

When we started to eat meat, less blood flow to the abdomen meant more for our brains. Hence, out brains were allowed to grow.


Look it up.

I am not sure I believe that theory, wouldn't it mean that carnivores should have bigger brains then us? I think a simple genetic mutation caused our brains to be larger then other animals on this planet.

I'm just stating what is known about human evolution. The fact that we started to eat meat allowed our brains to develop.

No, that wouldn't mean "carnivores" should have larger brains than us. We're speaking of the unique evolution of humans.

Originally posted by weemadmental

Originally posted by tasteslikethunder
ok ok ok. anyone who thinks you need to eat meat is fooling themselves -period. you do not NEED to eat meat, you WANT to eat it- period. when you get down to the nitty gritty the only argument for eating meat is "it tastes good" it has nothing in it that you cannot get from sources that do not have a face and a family. The "i tried it for a year and didnt feel good argument" is old and tired, you just were not supplementing yourself properly. you can't just have a plate with steak, rice and salad, and then become vegetarian and take the steak off the plate! it forces you to be creative, aware, and educated about what you put into your body. If you want to eat meat thats fine, thats your choice - but dont pretend like its necessary.

do you use vitamin suppliments to add to your diet, like most vegitarians do?? you cant get all of you required oils and vitamins from plants. full stop idiot, you cannot live on veg alone, you will die a hollow death and not live as a health person with out meat !!

SUPPORT SCOTTISH MEAT !!

WEE MAD MENTAL

Are you a registered dietician? Because you can get everything you need from plant/legume sources. The only vegitarians that NEED to supplement are the ones who are not eating a balanced diet. I'm not opposed to eating fish and eggs in moderation and i do not care if people eat other/all meats but there is more false information on this thread than i think i have ever seen. Its coming from both sides but the bulk of the false info is coming from the pro-meat individuals.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Are you a registered dietician? Because you can get everything you need from plant/legume sources. The only vegitarians that NEED to supplement are the ones who are not eating a balanced diet. I'm not opposed to eating fish and eggs in moderation and i do not care if people eat other/all meats but there is more false information on this thread than i think i have ever seen. Its coming from both sides but the bulk of the false info is coming from the pro-meat individuals.

Well we disagree because pretty much every single vegan and vegetarian in this thread has said humans are not designed to be omnivors. I have quoted science, shown the facts as to why we're designed to eat meat in evolutionary terms and they still deny it. So most of the propoganda comes from you lot in that sense.

Why can't you accept the scientific facts? It does not mean you have to eat meat, i will say again i am happy to support anyuones right not to eat meat. I don't like to push my opinions on anyone, however us being omnivorous in design isn't an opinion, it's documented scientific fact.

As for vitamin B12, please give me a plant source of this vitamin, and i mean a natural plant source, not a genetically altered yeast. As for as i'm aware they have found that bread actually used to contain vitamin B12, it came from the insects that got crushed in amongst the grain. The insects contain massive levels of the B vitamin complexes. Give a plant source please as i've looked and havn't yet found one. I always like ot learn and am happy to read what you find.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by weemadmental
do you get B12 from nuts ?, what suppliments do you ingest to keep you healthy ??

Wee Mad Mental

The body only needs a very small amount of B-12, 100-300mcg

B-12 can be obtained from nutritional yeast(which is a supplement), Royal Jelly(naturally occuring), organic vegetables (if washing is kept to a minimium).
In a survival situation, most B-12 will be obtained from consuming soil from unwashed veggies and most unfiltered water sources.

I eat eggs and small amounts of fish, so thats where i get most of mine.

Its foolish to reject Countless generations of Meat eating done by our ancestors, its in our genetics. So even if initially it was of detriment to our health, defenses were developed.

That chart obviously was created by some over zealous Vegans who want to impose their silly beliefs unto others. Being a Vegan is inconvenient and is only sustainable because you Vegans have your local supermarkets to go buy your food. If that weren't the case and you had to waste a signifigant amount of energy to find the necessary plants to recieve a well nourished diet, you would be eating meat in a heartbeat.

All you vegans know absolutely well that you wouldn't survive with such a lifestyle in the wild where you actually have to hunt for food. Theres a reason why not one Great/Prosperous Civilization in history lived according to the vegan lifestyle.

Luxury and Convenience is the core reason for vegans living "Healthy", and even then, they look frail and extremely Weak. Subtract the convenience of supermarkets from the equation and you'd be eating meat and enjoying it. So continue to fool yourselves thinking that you would actually have the slightest chance of survival outside the comforts and luxuries of Modern Civilization.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


Well i think that shows somethign iimportant, that B12 isn't a part of a vegan diet without supplementation, however i don't care about this, i honestly don't care if someone eats meat or not.

My entire problem with this thread is people are denying or refusing to answer the original question, that humans are omnivorous by design, would you care to counter the points i put forward on that? It is afterall the question that the OP asked.

Again it doesn't matter if we are omnivorous as to our meat consumption, if you choose to eat meat or not, has absolutely nothing to do with the scientific facts about whether we are designed to eat a diet containing meat.

reply to post by tasteslikethunder


Then you contradict yourself and have no place to criticize others with your sanctimonious BS.

reply to post by Danger Girl


It's called omnivore and you should check into that before posting something as iill-founded and retarded as this. Also I salivate when I see animals I would like to eat.

I am someone who has had some rather serious intestinal problems in the past, a colostomy which was thankfully reversed after three months, and the loss of my gall bladder and seven inches of colon. (I have a theory that my insides were damaged by microwaves from being in close proximity to a marine radar antenna for an extended time but that's going off topic here) Long term diet however, not so much what, but how much, was probably a big contributing factor.

On the day I left the hospital, I immediately wanted to go to Costco and get one of those hot dogs. (I only ate half, it was the concept of getting back to normal) Maybe it was just all the hospital food, I don't know. I did have a history of eating at McD's and elsewhere which I would say is about the worst stuff you can eat on a regular basis. However, so is a lot of the 'processed' and downright imitation junk foods that have been invented over the years. Twinkies are probably fairly good as compared with Cheeze Puffs, which are most likely not even cheeze. Or even something like fruit juices that might contain 10% real juice of something if at all, and many times not the type on the label. I'm pretty upset right now at the thought of taking food from Communist Chinese and trusting them as we would something made here. But large food concerns don't seem to care much more than foreigners these days, except to protect their rep after something goes wrong. The food supply in the US is essentially contaminated with all kinds of chemicals that other companies have promoted as beneficial. They are only beneficial in order to extend the shelf life or as fillers or substitutes for natural ingredients that in most cases are simply more expensive. You probably can't even trust water bottled in those plastic bottles either.

I find it interesting that some have said that meat eating makes people more aggressive and even warlike, but we have always seemingly been fighting about something or other forever. But some of the more aggressive people around are the ones that eat veggies and demand that everyone should become just like them. If we did, it's pretty certain we would still find things to fight about. Like how we are going to live in a world with a huge overabundance of animals taking over the planet. To each his own, and suggestions are always good, but demands - not so much.

We may soon see a time when growing your own food comes back into favor with a crushed transportation system and problems with the existing food production system. Just maybe we will be smarter than to just grab and eat Soylent Green when it appears. Given what some have said they have fed to cows, maybe it's already happened. It should be noted that the latest problem with mass poisoning of the populace is connected with some kind of tomatoes... there are no absolutes in this world, and there are a lot of perfectly 'natural' growing things you simply cannot consume at all without dire consequences.

I can eat fairly normally now, I do avoid milk, and some other things. Quantity is more important, I don't eat as much at a time.

Sorry this is so long, I'm just trying to say that there are bigger issues than those between meat and veggies. It's not that simple. But, if people like being vegetarian or vegan, it's fine with me. I would not try to prove they shouldn't. It's just that what works for one might not be as good for someone else.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
I assure you that is the question i am asked most. For some reason many people seem to think that there are magic properties in meat that help to prevent illness. Most meats are high in protein, iron and zinc. Thats about it and by the way all of those can be obtained by a balanced vegan/veggie diet. Legumes (nuts, seeds, beans) can provide everything and more than meat.

However vegans are moe prone to anemia, even long term experienced vegans. They are also prone to B12 deficieny. I agree a vegan diet can provide everything needed to stay alive, however i also argue it does not provide everything for optimum performance of the human body.

I will again bring up the Mr.Universe competition or the worlds strongest man competition. As far as i'm aware, neither of these events has been won by a person who was a vegetarian or vegan at the time. It's just not possible to gain all you need for such strenuous activity at that level.

Revised chart from OP's post

Again i'm jsut throwing this up into the thread as it took a whlie for me to alter it. Take a look at the new omnivore section, proves that we are omnivores.

i55.photobucket.com...

[edit on 16-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Your posts have been very valid and more thought out than most in this thread. But i will disagree with some of what you say about body builders. While i agree that a vegan/vegetarian cannot obtain those levels of muscle mass. Many of the "real" body builders use many other chemicals(HGH, Steriods, Inulin, Creatine supplements, etc.) Which are far from natural or healthy.

I will also say that if you are a vegetarian/vegan eating and well balanced diet based on dietetic science will not suffer anemia or B12 deficiencies.
With regards to the OP, i think humans originally evolved as omnivores, no debate from me. But as many posters have put it, it is not the only option and in todays society with all the food and supplement options that we have, living without meat in our diets is definitely possible without suffering health problems and i will say if you had to choose between eating meat regularly and not eating it at all, you will be healthier by not eating it at all. My personal view, that is based on strong dietetic sciences, is that moderation is key.
During the time of needed human survival, the average life expectancy was at the most 30-40 old tops. These earlier humans didnt live long enough to see the negative effects of eating a diet that was high in meat and fat. We see most health problems associated with meat consumption, when people reach their 40-50+.

Again you have been more respectful than most and i appreciate your comments.

what I don't understand is that many of those suppliments are probably meat extract.

Also, if the body builders used steroids, they'd be dead by 40-50ish. Not all do.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Your posts have been very valid and more thought out than most in this thread. But i will disagree with some of what you say about body builders. While i agree that a vegan/vegetarian cannot obtain those levels of muscle mass. Many of the "real" body builders use many other chemicals(HGH, Steriods, Inulin, Creatine supplements, etc.) Which are far from natural or healthy.

If you took those chemicals away (btw creatine is perfectly safe and is vital for you to actually be alive), then a vegan weight lifter would still lack behind a meat eating weight lifter. Creatine is used in many processes including creating ATP, the basic energy system of the muscles especially the heart. With no creatine in your body you would drop down dead. Luckily the body can synthesis enough from the ingredients in a varied vega diet, unless that person starts undergoing heavy training. I don't just mean an active lifestyle i mean bone bruising training.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
I will also say that if you are a vegetarian/vegan eating and well balanced diet based on dietetic science will not suffer anemia or B12 deficiencies.
With regards to the OP, i think humans originally evolved as omnivores, no debate from me. But as many posters have put it, it is not the only option and in todays society with all the food and supplement options that we have, living without meat in our diets is definitely possible without suffering health problems and i will say if you had to choose between eating meat regularly and not eating it at all, you will be healthier by not eating it at all. My personal view, that is based on strong dietetic sciences, is that moderation is key.

Well maybe we should agree to disagree on that point because according to the sciences and your own admission about supplements of royal jelly, the B12 vitamin is hard ot get outside of animal products.

I found a vegan website having information regarding anemia in vegans. I should be cler, this is a vegan site, heavy on supporting vegan friendly research and yet -

Some might expect that since the vegan diet contains a form of iron that is not that well absorbed, vegans might be prone to developing iron deficiency anemia. However, surveys of vegans 2,3 have found that iron deficiency anemia is no more common among vegetarians than among the general population although vegans tend to have lower iron stores.

www.vrg.org...

It goes on to say that lots of vegetables have higher iron stores than meat (uncontestable), however it seems that these forms of iron and their heavy intake just doesn't fill the human body up with iron. I think further research is needed on that to find out if meat has a chemical in it that encourages the uptake of iron in the intestines.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
During the time of needed human survival, the average life expectancy was at the most 30-40 old tops. These earlier humans didnt live long enough to see the negative effects of eating a diet that was high in meat and fat. We see most health problems associated with meat consumption, when people reach their 40-50+.

You cannot blaim the life expectancy of early man simply on diet. Early man ate a good deal of vegetable and fruit crops in the summer and meat in the winter when crops were hard to come by. If we look back smply at the greeks, romans or other peoples, they did eat a lot of crops and yet their life expectancy didn't improve much.

Less physically damaging exercise, excellent sanitation, incredible medical care and scientific advances have all led to a longer life expectancy.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Again you have been more respectful than most and i appreciate your comments.

Ditto. I myself eat very little meat despite how in favour i may sound of corpse crunching as it has been called. I eat small portions of meat once a day, red meat is rare in my diet as i find it's unhealthy, at least the traditional kinds are. Moderation is as you said, the key.

However if someone finds meat repugnant, then i perfectly support their right to not eat it and i won't force my views upon them, i find it interesting that vegans and vegetarians are the opposite, they want to force their views on others. The fact they use phrases like "corpse cruncher" in an attempt to guilt people into eating plants only kind of shows that.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Strange concept I just came up with...

What happens if you try to feed a proven herbivore like a rabbit or a giraffe nothing but meat? Will they even eat it? How hungry do they have to get before they'll try it? Will it make them sick or shut their digestive system down?

If you can prove that herbivores CANNOT survive on meat, then you can prove that humans are not herbivores.

YOU'RE WRONG.
This is the primary problem with vegans. Lack of proper diet has made you stupid. We are omnivores, always have been. And as far as eating grains and all that nonsense, here's a little link for you, if you have the strength to look it up, that is....
www.beyondveg.com...

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Strange concept I just came up with...

What happens if you try to feed a proven herbivore like a rabbit or a giraffe nothing but meat? Will they even eat it? How hungry do they have to get before they'll try it? Will it make them sick or shut their digestive system down?

If you can prove that herbivores CANNOT survive on meat, then you can prove that humans are not herbivores.

Chances are any herbivore if force fed meat would suffer from protein toxicity and die. Their livers just aren't made to put up with it.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
If you can prove that herbivores CANNOT survive on meat, then you can prove that humans are not herbivores.

What? I'm afraid that logic is a tough one to follow, in fact it's not logic.

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
YOU'RE WRONG.
This is the primary problem with vegans. Lack of proper diet has made you stupid. We are omnivores, always have been. And as far as eating grains and all that nonsense, here's a little link for you, if you have the strength to look it up, that is....
www.beyondveg.com...

Oh come on mate, that isn't helpful, it isn't correct and it just makes anyone arguing for a meat friendly diet to sound like a raving lunatic. Have some respect would you.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Are you a registered dietician? Because you can get everything you need from plant/legume sources. The only vegitarians that NEED to supplement are the ones who are not eating a balanced diet. I'm not opposed to eating fish and eggs in moderation and i do not care if people eat other/all meats but there is more false information on this thread than i think i have ever seen. Its coming from both sides but the bulk of the false info is coming from the pro-meat individuals.

Well we disagree because pretty much every single vegan and vegetarian in this thread has said humans are not designed to be omnivors. I have quoted science, shown the facts as to why we're designed to eat meat in evolutionary terms and they still deny it. So most of the propoganda comes from you lot in that sense.

Why can't you accept the scientific facts? It does not mean you have to eat meat, i will say again i am happy to support anyuones right not to eat meat. I don't like to push my opinions on anyone, however us being omnivorous in design isn't an opinion, it's documented scientific fact.

As for vitamin B12, please give me a plant source of this vitamin, and i mean a natural plant source, not a genetically altered yeast. As for as i'm aware they have found that bread actually used to contain vitamin B12, it came from the insects that got crushed in amongst the grain. The insects contain massive levels of the B vitamin complexes. Give a plant source please as i've looked and havn't yet found one. I always like ot learn and am happy to read what you find.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Dude, I'm not arguing with you, I agree humans were designed to eat meat. We are omnivores. And as i stated there is false info coming from both sides. B12 is produced naturally in the soil by bacteria. If you are eating one unwashed raw veggie a day you are getting most of the 100-300mcg of B12 that you need. If you work in a garden and get any soil in your mouth, it will have B12. Granted, if you are a vegan(strictly plant based foods), you have less access to B12 but that does not mean that you can not get enough to survive. Fact is vegans represent a very small portion of society. Being vegetarian is much more common than vegan and if you are a vegetarian who eats eggs or dairy, then there are no worries for any vitamin or mineral.

What scientific facts am i not accepting?

Believe me there is propoganda on both sides.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

Well i think that shows somethign iimportant, that B12 isn't a part of a vegan diet without supplementation, however i don't care about this, i honestly don't care if someone eats meat or not.

I think i stated that B12 can be obtained from an unwashed vegetable/soil/unfiltered water.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage

Dude, I'm not arguing with you, I agree humans were designed to eat meat. We are omnivores. And as i stated there is false info coming from both sides. B12 is produced naturally in the soil by bacteria. If you are eating one unwashed raw veggie a day you are getting most of the 100-300mcg of B12 that you need. If you work in a garden and get any soil in your mouth, it will have B12. Granted, if you are a vegan(strictly plant based foods), you have less access to B12 but that does not mean that you can not get enough to survive. Fact is vegans represent a very small portion of society. Being vegetarian is much more common than vegan and if you are a vegetarian who eats eggs or dairy, then there are no worries for any vitamin or mineral.

What scientific facts am i not accepting?

Believe me there is propoganda on both sides.

My apologies i didn't mean you, i understand you've said we're omnivorous by nature, i meant most of the other vegans and vegetarians in this thread. I was merely talking about B12 and iron in my laast post. I disagree you'll get all the needed B12 from traces of soil on vegetables, especially as most veg is washed and peeled before use.

Oh and absolutely, if you are a vegetarian eating dairy and/or eggs you will be all set for every vitamin, mineral and even chemicals like creatine will be present in adaquate quantities.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

Well i think that shows somethign iimportant, that B12 isn't a part of a vegan diet without supplementation, however i don't care about this, i honestly don't care if someone eats meat or not.

My entire problem with this thread is people are denying or refusing to answer the original question, that humans are omnivorous by design, would you care to counter the points i put forward on that? It is afterall the question that the OP asked.

Again it doesn't matter if we are omnivorous as to our meat consumption, if you choose to eat meat or not, has absolutely nothing to do with the scientific facts about whether we are designed to eat a diet containing meat.

Why are you continuing to challenge me on the OP statement. The OP, left out key info about omnivores. I have stated several times i feel that humans evolved as omnivores, if not only because humans were very resourceful. I'm not arguing that humans were/are omnivores. Again humans are omnivores, i'm not arguing with you.