Republicans block measure s.3044 in attempt to investigate gas gouging

There have been some recent attempts to blame democrats for the high gas prices.
I have also read here that the Democrats have achieved next to nothing in these past two years. Well here is an example of the democrats trying to address the gas pricing
issue -

This bill would have allowed an investigation to address , questionable market influence , supply and demand, Tax sheltering and the whole nine yards...
All but 6 of our red friends voted against everyone with a car that is not a billionaire!

This bill was an attempt to remedy the current prices - this bill was an attempt to
protect the AMERICAN CITIZEN against the current profiteering that is running rampant.
Republican and Democrat would have benefited from this in the long run. I must mention this bill was not an attempt to , socialize or heavily regulate. This bill was
the only official way to address the issue of possible(red), probable (blue) ENRON Style
wrong doing's - todays prices are $5.13 for premium in Los Angeles.

Unfortunately Senator Obama was elsewhere and Mccain voted NAY -


Official: A bill to provide energy price relief and hold oil companies and other entities accountable for their actions with regard to high energy prices, and for other purposes. as introduced.
Short: Petroleum Consumer Price Gouging Protection Act as introduced.
Short: NOPEC as introduced.
Short: No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels Act of 2008 as introduced.
Short: Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 as introduced.

This BILL had 0 AMENDMENTS

I will provide a link to the votes -

www.senate.gov...

I have been dredging the votes since 06 and this a very common political tactic to
point to Democratic inaction. I have done some very rough math and I think the independently minded person would see a clear trend of blocking by wasting time
with open debate. If you don't believe me that is fine, however don't be blind and ignorant just because of your party affiliation. Check out senate.gov and see where the time and energy is going.

Also I have provided a link to a video with the big five OIL Senate Judiciary Cmte. hearing on Rising Crude Oil Prices.

I remember tuning in on cspan to watch this,,, You will be amazed to hear what comes from mouth of John Hofmeister, president and U.S. country chairman, Shell Oil Co( the only honest one of the five) -
paraphrased - he said that if you take out the market speculation and the geo political
concerns that oil can (without speculation) be produced, shipped at about 40 - 60 dollars a barrel -

all the other members cited 130 - 170 a barrel !

bottom video of the four

www.c-span.org...

This video is over three hours but maybe some of you would like to see these men
you defend (free market ).
understand the issue a little better...

In closing I remember the CA energy crisis horse crap, FOX NEWS took the same stance with that issue as well. Do your own research and you might find that this is not magic, rather it is strategic, intentional requiring some level of blocking at the political level.

Heres the eight year gas trend -thanks GW

www.swivel.com...

Fire Away Wood shacks

P.S gov. Wallace Was a democrat -- you got me

reply to post by just great


No debate???

Gracias

This is TOO much -

I really hope we can start looking at things solid, straight in the eye regardless of our political religion

Gracias

This is TOO much -

I really hope we can start looking at things solid, straight in the eye regardless of our political religion

In all honesty, the cost of oil is only part of the problem, and a very small one at that. There have been no new refineries built since the 70s, if I remember correctly - refinery capacity has increased some since then - but demand for gasoline has increased well over 300% since then.

Supply/demand, you know the drill.

While it is interesting to see these executives stand up and toot their horn about how much/little it costs to produce a barrel of oil - it would be even more interesting to see the rubber meet the road. Since a lot of oil is internationally derived, Congress is not going to have much power in the matter, anyway.

The rest of it comes from prohibiting the construction of new refineries. And at this point, why deregulate that? The companies that own those refineries are making a killing - sure, price of oil has gone up, but not anywhere in comparison to the demand (and price) of gasoline. You can bet lobbyists for those companies are trying to keep those regulations in place and prevent anyone else from starting up new refineries and underscoring the market.

One must have the proper understanding of corporate-government relationships. The government is not the good guy, and the corporations are not the bad guy. If the government was the good guy - they would simply not involve themselves in matters of private businesses because, later, the "fair business" or "environmental" laws/regulations will end up being abused by the centralized corporate powers.

Gas prices have gone up according to demand - there is no "gouging" going on. However, the lack of refinery capacity to meet demand results in higher prices at the pump with little change in operating costs - resulting in high profit margins. Normally, a free market would see more refineries built by second or third parties that wish to satisfy demand. Government regulations prohibit this.

Thus, the market is not free - it is only private and the government maintains the wall that keeps other players out of the game.

I would have voted the bill down, anyway. It was not an attempt to resolve the problem - the problem is well known and documented and doesn't warrant any investigation and "we will arbitrarily tell you what the price of gas must be" (which is where this was going, and you should be well aware of that).

If you want cheaper gas, authorize more refineries to be built. Sure - no one wants an oil refinery in their back yard - but there are plenty of places that would welcome the added jobs and tax revenue.

reply to post by Aim64C

Only got 3 posts before an apologist showed up.

Aim64c, do you really believe that crap you spout? The oil companies are posting record profits and you have the audacity to claim that the price of oil is a small part of the problem, and "no gouging is going on"....

/FACEPALM

reply to post by Aim64C


I disagree with this. Back in December of 2008 I posted this:
Unfettered Speculative Bubbles in Oil industry given BIG Boost

SEC adopts new oil, gas reporting standards

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. securities regulators adopted rules giving investors a more complete picture of the oil and natural gas reserves that a company holds, the Securities and Exchange Commission said on Monday. Under the new SEC rules that are supported by the energy industry, oil and gas companies will be allowed to disclose their probable and possible reserves to investors.

So with these rules they allow future speculation of potential oil reserves that would remain effectively unfettered. Both Probable and Possible. There is a HUGE doorway to abuse here. With OPEC in concert we may see out of control inflation just as many have been predicting. I think someone is trying to force this. And this may very well be the final nail.

These policies have allowed for further speculation. What else is going on? Price inflation. Not to mention that OPEC is driving upward pressure on the price of oil as well. They're targeting over $90 per barrel by the end of the year.

We have a combination of price inflation thanks to the Fed and price fixing thanks to the SEC. It was an accurate prediction it seems, though not surprising. Data goes where data goes.



Edit:


1 This SEC rule change was done under the democrats and they didn't stop it regardless of their railing against this sort of government created monopoly making.

The government created this folks...It's not like dems or reps are rushing to fix it either.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


The problem is not really that of oil companies. I could buy 2% of next weeks' oil production and sit on it until I can sell it for a 5% profit.

It would be like buying up all of the food from the grocery store and selling it at a 10% hike. It's not really the fault of the grocery store - nor does it have anything to do with that store. It has everything to do with bad market policies.

However, that is not what this thread was about - this was about "gas gouging" - gas prices and oil prices are two different beasts. If you want cheaper gas, build more refineries. The price of oil could continue to go up and the price of gas would still go down at the pump.

If you want cheaper oil, don't let people purchase it on paper only. If they want to buy it and hold on to it, they better have the tanks to do it.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Aim64C

 

The government created this folks...It's not like dems or reps are rushing to fix it either.

Thats fine, but that does not speak to why the GOP blocked a maneuver that would have blown the lid off the entire thing... I get REALLY frustrated, you say the government creates this and fail to say the government could also address and correct this too.

.s3044 could have put the ENTIRE industry in the public eye and as well as the GOVERNMENTAL disfunction.

Do you realize these gas prices were the straw that broke the camels back?

This was the immediate constant pressure that proceeded the crash, which lead to the corporate socialism-

People do not realize how much of a strain these inflated prices placed upon the economy in 2008 -

So I ask you AGAIN -


Why did the GOP, in particular decide to let this ride by intentionally blocking inquiry???

Please...

reply to post by Janky Red

Thats fine, but that does not speak to why the GOP blocked a maneuver that would have blown the lid off the entire thing... I get REALLY frustrated, you say the government creates this and fail to say the government could also address and correct this too.

Yeah, by not committing fraud. These people are the government. They sure have the power to make things better, but being the GOP or the Dems does not predispose them to do anything of the sort.

As far as why they would do this? Because they can. I think that's a much better explanation seeing as how both parties seem to enjoy ripping people off.

reply to post by Janky Red


I'm not in the US so correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Dems held a majority..
So why blame the Reps ???

Originally posted by just great
>snip<

- todays prices are $5.13 for premium in Los Angeles.

Where'd you get that number?


AAA fuel price survey

Los Angeles-
Long Beach - Regular Mid Premium Diesel
Current ----- $3.113 $3.314 $3.369 $3.420
Yesterday -- $3.115 $3.316 $3.371 $3.415
Week Ago -- $3.110 $3.311 $3.365 $3.377
Month Ago - $3.075 $3.273 $3.327 $3.360
Year Ago --- $2.996 $3.189 $3.242 $3.033

Highest Recorded Average Price:
Regular Unl. $4.626 6/21/2008
Diesel. ----- $5.189 7/17/2008


National averages (and Los Angeles average) has not hit 5 dollars in at least the last 6 years:6 year gas prices, Los Angeles and USA averages.


Though I'm personally not against government looking into the issue of gas prices they need to be very careful how they go about it. They don't want to spook the horses, so to speak, and drive prices even higher.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Janky Red

 

I'm not in the US so correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Dems held a majority..
So why blame the Reps ???

Nice stars, thats cute

Correction -

DID you look at the votes

oh wait no

you are this feller without the seeing eye dog emoticon???

Proceedurally the GOP did completely block S 3044, Dems at mass voted for it
So in the US and on the Planet Earth one usually blames the party who creates the
result we are discussing. In this Case the GOP created the result in a unified fashion, thru
their votes blocking an investigation into manipulation and market making. The people who
gave you stars had to pay their hard earned cash out for that call thats cute too - poodles

reply to post by just great


And McCain did not vote "nay":

Not Voting - 6
Byrd (D-WV)
Clinton (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
Kennedy (D-MA)
McCain (R-AZ)
Obama (D-IL)

Source: your link.

Originally posted by abecedarian

Originally posted by just great
>snip<

- todays prices are $5.13 for premium in Los Angeles.

Where'd you get that number?


AAA fuel price survey

Los Angeles-
Long Beach - Regular Mid Premium Diesel
Current ----- $3.113 $3.314 $3.369 $3.420
Yesterday -- $3.115 $3.316 $3.371 $3.415
Week Ago -- $3.110 $3.311 $3.365 $3.377
Month Ago - $3.075 $3.273 $3.327 $3.360
Year Ago --- $2.996 $3.189 $3.242 $3.033

Highest Recorded Average Price:
Regular Unl. $4.626 6/21/2008
Diesel. ----- $5.189 7/17/2008


National averages (and Los Angeles average) has not hit 5 dollars in at least the last 6 years:6 year gas prices, Los Angeles and USA averages.


Though I'm personally not against government looking into the issue of gas prices they need to be very careful how they go about it. They don't want to spook the horses, so to speak, and drive prices even higher.

edit on 11/11/2010 by abecedarian because: formatting

I am not sure, I lived in S.D Ca , but prices certainly spiked over $5.00 in 2008 - I am talking to my friend on the phone right now and he recalls the same...


Oh wait...

notice key word -

Highest Recorded Average Price

your data does show that the market all of a sudden "behaved" in the last year...

reply to post by just great


Gas prices are high because Helicopter Ben is printing money and because we are occupying the entire middle east with our military.

Any investigation in to gas prices will be a show trial to deflect attention away from these facts.

And that.... is a fact.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Thats fine, but that does not speak to why the GOP blocked a maneuver that would have blown the lid off the entire thing... I get REALLY frustrated, you say the government creates this and fail to say the government could also address and correct this too.

Yeah, by not committing fraud. These people are the government. They sure have the power to make things better, but being the GOP or the Dems does not predispose them to do anything of the sort.

As far as why they would do this? Because they can. I think that's a much better explanation seeing as how both parties seem to enjoy ripping people off.

edit on 11-11-2010 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

See I think you are afraid to recognize that or state that the GOP and by default conservatives (there must be a few in there) are more pro business then they are pro consumer -

I think that is an ideological component to conservatism that sucks frankly... In your last sentence once again you distributed the blame, it is a defense mechanism in a rhetorical sense,,, why do it??? The "progressives"
voted to investigate, was that a good thing on their behalf??? Or are the GOP being Progressive

Or can you just not bare to look at this squarely - the vote is very partisan and ideological -

again why diffuse the "blame" in this case?

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by just great

 

Gas prices are high because Helicopter Ben is printing money and because we are occupying the entire middle east with our military.

Any investigation in to gas prices will be a show trial to deflect attention away from these facts.

And that.... is a fact.

so you are saying the Rhetorical weapon of using the WARS against the GOP prior to the 2008 election would not in fact be the BRUNT of the charges and investigation???

what could be better for the Dems back then??? -

poor logic -

again....

?

reply to post by Janky Red


What? This represents a fundamental lack of understanding of how economics works.

EVERYONE is a consumer. People, corporations, governments. The biggest consumer is government in general. You're trying to goad me into taking a partisan position that I am not interested in taking, as the premise is not that cut and dry to me. I can't, in earnest, place blame on anyone party as I fundamentally disagree with them. And the reason I fundamentally disagree with them is that 9 out of 10 times they have no idea what they're talking about as far as economics is concerned. Which brings me to my previous post.

Businesses are consumers too. Businesses are run by individuals, and individuals producing and consuming drive that cycle. Government distorts that cycle because ALL they do is consume, they don't produce. The consumption cycle is just that cyclical. If you want me to condemn republican politicians for distorting that cycle, the answer is, I already have MANY times around ATS for nearly 3 years. But I'm not falling for the partisan trap. I'm fully aware of who's who here, who pulls the strings, and who pays for it.

reply to post by Janky Red


So are you saying the Dems do not hold a majority?
Or do you just insult for no reason?