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Republicans block measure s.3044 in attempt to investigate gas gouging

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posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Most of the reason were still paying high gas prices is a weak dollar there are other factors such as supply. We have needed to build new refineries for decades but that goes in to not my back yard. However in spite of that if we had a strong dollar especially with problems in Europe are gas would be really cheap. You cant just print money without side effects and the side effect is inflation your seeing it at the pump and in our grocery stores.




posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
Most of the reason were still paying high gas prices is a weak dollar there are other factors such as supply. We have needed to build new refineries for decades but that goes in to not my back yard. However in spite of that if we had a strong dollar especially with problems in Europe are gas would be really cheap. You cant just print money without side effects and the side effect is inflation your seeing it at the pump and in our grocery stores.



I understand what you are saying

However

The new information that is available is that prices have been manipulated, via speculation by Banks
and wealthy individuals.

This is a separate consideration

The OP was right on over three years ago, however the truth usually comes out when the fire is turned down low.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by Aim64C
 


yep..."set or maintain prices"...well well isn't that just cute...set a price ceiling and interfere with the working of the free market, then tax tax and more tax, which of course the consumer has to pay. Thanks Democrats.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Aim64C
 


yep..."set or maintain prices"...well well isn't that just cute...set a price ceiling and interfere with the working of the free market, then tax tax and more tax, which of course the consumer has to pay. Thanks Democrats.



The speculation and the gouging was confirmed as suspected...

Trillion dollars later and here you are defending the people who ripped you off

It is funny how it is not a free market when it suits the argument, but when it protects
the face of corporations, like you are doing, it is a free market.

Fact is, it is NOT a free market,because multiple forces regulate it that are not in the U.S's control.

You tell me you are not pro corporate, but you defend them even when you have been a target.

That is just stupid frankly


Fight the urge of idiocy
edit on 18-9-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 

Tell me how a market pricing outside of the control of US is going to be controlled by putting a price ceiling on gas sold in the US???
It is a known fact that setting either price ceilings or price floors are govt control of the market. Thus it interferes with the free market flow.


A price ceiling is a government-imposed limit on the price charged for a product. Governments intend price ceilings to protect consumers from conditions that could make necessary commodities unattainable. However, a price ceiling can cause problems if imposed for a long period without controlled rationing. Price ceilings can produce negative results when the correct solution would have been to increase supply. Misuse occurs when a government misdiagnoses a price as too high when the real problem is that the supply is too low. In an unregulated market economy price ceilings do not exist. Students may incorrectly perceive a price ceiling as being on top of a supply and demand curve when in fact, an effective price ceiling is positioned below the equilibrium position on the graph.


en.wikipedia.org...


graph on page also depicting the euilibrium between prices and supply and demand
edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Aim64C
 


yep..."set or maintain prices"...well well isn't that just cute...set a price ceiling and interfere with the working of the free market, then tax tax and more tax, which of course the consumer has to pay. Thanks Democrats.



The speculation and the gouging was confirmed as suspected...

Trillion dollars later and here you are defending the people who ripped you off

It is funny how it is not a free market when it suits the argument, but when it protects
the face of corporations, like you are doing, it is a free market.

Fact is, it is NOT a free market,because multiple forces regulate it that are not in the U.S's control.

You tell me you are not pro corporate, but you defend them even when you have been a target.

That is just stupid frankly


Fight the urge of idiocy
edit on 18-9-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)


Thirdeye

Is all pro bank, because he assumes that admitting that they have intentionally rigged the market, will threaten

A. Republicanism
B. The Tea Party
C. Freedom
D. And Bald Eagles too

You are a part of the problem, you are the public will that keeps justice and pro action at bay.

Communism will not blanket America if you recognize that some business is as crooked as the government,
man up dude.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Janky Red
 

Tell me how a market pricing outside of the control of US is going to be controlled by putting a price ceiling on gas sold in the US???
It is a known fact that setting either price ceilings or price floors are govt control of the market. Thus it interferes with the free market flow.


A price ceiling is a government-imposed limit on the price charged for a product. Governments intend price ceilings to protect consumers from conditions that could make necessary commodities unattainable. However, a price ceiling can cause problems if imposed for a long period without controlled rationing. Price ceilings can produce negative results when the correct solution would have been to increase supply. Misuse occurs when a government misdiagnoses a price as too high when the real problem is that the supply is too low. In an unregulated market economy price ceilings do not exist. Students may incorrectly perceive a price ceiling as being on top of a supply and demand curve when in fact, an effective price ceiling is positioned below the equilibrium position on the graph.


en.wikipedia.org...


graph on page also depicting the euilibrium between prices and supply and demand
edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


Straw man,

There are criminal statutes against rigging a multi Trillion dollar market.

Or are you saying that no body should even try to impede TPTB?

I mean you actively protect the same forces you claim to hate, it just depends on if you reckon it
is "business" huh?

If you are gonna be full of it, leave me alone, I'm tired of it



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 





It is NOT an accident that the most ENERGY connected White House oversaw the most overly inflated prices in



ah ok let's not talk about the taxpayers subsidizng the now bankrupt Solar co chosen by current WH occupants because they keep hoping they can ramp up Green Energy and make their environmentally concerned base happy. What's that you say about crony capitalism...lol
edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


Are you kidding me? You think that the govt putting artificial price fixing on an industry which has multi national markets and slapping taxes on corporations is a straw man argument? It's the base of the legislation. Your argument is the straw man...ie the idea that govt can control pricing and keep things competitive at the same time. But that is not the goal of this admin really, because what it will do is interfere with the mechanism of the free market. It is not a straw man, it is simple economics.


Simple economics is not a straw man argument. You just didn't understand how the market works.


A price ceiling set below the free-market price has several effects. Suppliers find they can't charge what they had been. As a result, some suppliers drop out of the market. This reduces supply. Meanwhile, consumers find they can now buy the product for less, so quantity demanded increases. These two actions cause quantity demanded to exceed quantity supplied, which causes a shortage—unless rationing or other consumption controls are enforced. It can also lead to various forms of non-price competition so supply can meet demand.


en.wikipedia.org...


Did you learn anything from the failing of the former USSR and all the bread lines due to shortages from the centralized planning of the means of production?
edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


What do the banks have to do with the govt controlling pricing of a multinational industry? Have you been outside the US?

Who's paying what: Most Europeans, including the British, the Irish, the Germans, the Italians and the French, pay somewhere between $7.50 and $8 per gallon, according to the International Energy


Norway is awash in oil because of its thriving oil industry in the North Atlantic. The United Kingdom also has access to the oil fields in the same region.



Italy has deep corporate ties with Libya. Its oil production company, Eni, is the largest producer in Libya. But even in the best of times, without civil war in Libya, gas in Italy is expensive when compared to the U.S. Italians on average paid $7.77 a gallon at the end of February, according to the most recent data from the IEA.



"The difference between countries comes down to taxes and subsidies," said Tom Kloza, the chief oil analyst for Oil Price Information Service. "Prices are incredibly high in Europe because of the stiff taxes that EU countries put on fuel. The same holds true for many other countries.


money.cnn.com...


So, regardless of your past insistence that you are not a Statist, here you are arguing for more govt control and bureaucracy to fix a problem by using the very means that has caused even higher gas prices in Europe-taxation. And you just get mad at me because your argument is faulty.


And to top it off, you are so angry that you have dissolved into blaming me for the rising price of gas.
edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Janky Red
 





It is NOT an accident that the most ENERGY connected White House oversaw the most overly inflated prices in



ah ok let's not talk about the taxpayers subsidizng the now bankrupt Solar co chosen by current WH occupants because they keep hoping they can ramp up Green Energy and make their environmentally concerned base happy. What's that you say about crony capitalism...lol
edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


Shuck and Jive Rocky, Stick and Move.

With OIL, the results of this effort to block and enable, we are essentially talking about the largest transfers of wealth in the history of the world.

Keep pivoting or you might have to look at the guys you are cheering on!

It was OIL that finally broke the economies back


And keep defending the multinationals, it shows exactly who you work for... its the same with every argument
too, now isn't it? You're always on the side of the big guy, not the people.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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How STUPID do you have to be to come into this topic, and somehow find anyone to blame other than republicans?

STUPID.....or PAID.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Janky Red
 


Are you kidding me? You think that the govt putting artificial price fixing on an industry which has multi national markets and slapping taxes on corporations is a straw man argument? It's the base of the legislation. Your argument is the straw man...ie the idea that govt can control pricing and keep things competitive at the same time. But that is not the goal of this admin really, because what it will do is interfere with the mechanism of the free market. It is not a straw man, it is simple economics.


Simple economics is not a straw man argument. You just didn't understand how the market works.


A price ceiling set below the free-market price has several effects. Suppliers find they can't charge what they had been. As a result, some suppliers drop out of the market. This reduces supply. Meanwhile, consumers find they can now buy the product for less, so quantity demanded increases. These two actions cause quantity demanded to exceed quantity supplied, which causes a shortage—unless rationing or other consumption controls are enforced. It can also lead to various forms of non-price competition so supply can meet demand.


en.wikipedia.org...


Did you learn anything from the failing of the former USSR and all the bread lines due to shortages from the centralized planning of the means of production?
edit on 18-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



You have mentioned price control, who mentioned price control, besides yourself?

You seem to have a problem with understanding that the market was manipulated with an influx of carefully
placed positions and essential controlling the output in a market that has an ever expanding demand. Do people
ever need less oxygen? Water? Gasoline to drive the same route each week? There are no comparable alternatives currently on the market.

You know, I can twist your arm, to where it hurts SO bad you will start to black out, but you know what?
You would have a real hard time proving that I did so

It is by design, it is not natural, or righteous... Who by god are you for?

The Saudi's, the international casino and the multinationals, those are your people apparently.
God forbid that even the smallest sliver can be brought into the public light huh? Are you afraid
that they will find something much more systemic... Wait, isn't that what you suspect in the first place
Mr. Commie hunter??? So why in the hell are you protecting the Commies that are robbing America
blind? I don't come if they are Commies, Chinese or White as me, I don't want to pay for their slimy,
international thievery any longer.

And Read Adam Smith, a free market cannot endure if Ethics are abandoned, just as you abandon
them in this very argument. I shouldn't have to point out that basic fact that what they are doing to
the American Tax Payer is wrong. You should try so hard to justify the right, in something so wrong.

“Never complain of that of which it is at all times in your power to rid yourself.”
― Adam Smith, The Theory of Moral Sentiments
edit on 18-9-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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Yes is manipulation and corruption behind the oil and gas industry.

Now with that said let me go into detail of certain facts that many seems to have not understanding of it at all.


Oil prices are manipulated by commodity speculators, The top of the list is our own Exxon Valdez, we can blame on demand we can blamed on the middle east or even the eastern bunny but is our own big oil companies the ones that controls the oil prices in the US markets.

We also have our very own The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission that its job is to act as a watch dog for unfair practices, but as usual just like our corrupted government they are bought out by big interest.

So with that said we most now look at who are the biggest Pimps (I mean funders) of our whores (I mean politicians) in congress,Big oil Mafia, big pharma carter and Insurance companies monopoly.

So with that out of the way we all know why we can not get a decent piece of the legislation helping the consumer against the corruption in our government and those that pays the most money to keep things the way their are.

Now, lets talk about the mighty dollar our dollar is peg to the oil prices since the seventies when US introduce the Petrodollar as a way to do all oil transactions.

Our dollar is manipulated by the same Commodities speculators that play with the future oil prices this a way to get the most profits from oil speculation but it also weakens the dollar, so actually is our dollar been peg to oil prices that is doing damage to our currency.

The value of the U.S. dollar is determined by the fact that oil is sold in dollars so in order to make most profits from oil the dollar is weaken in purpose by speculators.

Now do you see why the corruption is never going to stop and we the consumers will keep paying whatever the oil mafia wants us to pay for gas?

They have it too good to be stop now, so no legislation will be passed to stop the big Oil mafia gravy train.

You can blame it to the middle east, blame it to demand, to no enough oil refineries or the eastern bunny but is manipulation at its finest what is working against us in the this nation


References

Petrodollar warfare
en.wikipedia.org...

Oil speculators charged with price manipulation
money.cnn.com...


edit on 18-9-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


You really are showing a lack of understanding when it comes to commerce. Oil prices are set by bench marks. Im sure youve heard of brent crude but do you understand it? Well where and who you buy your oil from does make a difference. Brent crude is from the north sea as a general rule tends to be more expensive and it is used to price two thirds of the world's internationally traded crude oil supplies. Other benchmarks are OPEC Reference Basket, Dubai Crude and West Texas Intermediate all these benchmarks are set so no matter where the oil comes from it can be priced. Now as i stated earlier Brent crude is the top of the barrel and most expensive is still currently over $100.00 a barrel last i checked about 115.00. but the new your stock exchange is based on WTI currently around 85.00 a barrel. So in the US theres a place called cushing ever heard of it? Its in oklahoma and it is a trading hub for the United States. So why am i telling you this you ask?

Simple there are a couple of factors leading to high prices 1 inflation which i all ready mentioned in previous post.
Now back to cushing oklahoma they are pumping as much oil as they can this is the WTI however demand has far outstripped supply in the US. This causes refineries to use the more expensive brent crude thus were not seeing those price drops. The only way this price drops will occur is if more drilling happens in the US this would allow cushing to handle more of the demand and allow the refineries to buy at a lower cost.

Your simplistic view of economics you forgot the most basic rule supply and demand.We will not see cheaper gas prices until we start drilling for more oil in the US and under the current administration id say thats not likely. And dont try to make a conspiracy when you dont understand world markets just makes you look silly.

And for people that want to learn heres the current prices for the different types of crude.
www.bloomberg.com...



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Janky Red
 


You really are showing a lack of understanding when it comes to commerce. Oil prices are set by bench marks. Im sure youve heard of brent crude but do you understand it? Well where and who you buy your oil from does make a difference. Brent crude is from the north sea as a general rule tends to be more expensive and it is used to price two thirds of the world's internationally traded crude oil supplies. Other benchmarks are OPEC Reference Basket, Dubai Crude and West Texas Intermediate all these benchmarks are set so no matter where the oil comes from it can be priced. Now as i stated earlier Brent crude is the top of the barrel and most expensive is still currently over $100.00 a barrel last i checked about 115.00. but the new your stock exchange is based on WTI currently around 85.00 a barrel. So in the US theres a place called cushing ever heard of it? Its in oklahoma and it is a trading hub for the United States. So why am i telling you this you ask?

Simple there are a couple of factors leading to high prices 1 inflation which i all ready mentioned in previous post.
Now back to cushing oklahoma they are pumping as much oil as they can this is the WTI however demand has far outstripped supply in the US. This causes refineries to use the more expensive brent crude thus were not seeing those price drops. The only way this price drops will occur is if more drilling happens in the US this would allow cushing to handle more of the demand and allow the refineries to buy at a lower cost.

Your simplistic view of economics you forgot the most basic rule supply and demand.We will not see cheaper gas prices until we start drilling for more oil in the US and under the current administration id say thats not likely. And dont try to make a conspiracy when you dont understand world markets just makes you look silly.

And for people that want to learn heres the current prices for the different types of crude.
www.bloomberg.com...






Also I have provided a link to a video with the big five OIL Senate Judiciary Cmte. hearing on Rising Crude Oil Prices.

I remember tuning in on cspan to watch this,,, You will be amazed to hear what comes from mouth of John Hofmeister, president and U.S. country chairman, Shell Oil Co( the only honest one of the five) -
paraphrased - he said that if you take out the market speculation and the geo political
concerns that oil can (without speculation) be produced, shipped at about 40 - 60 dollars a barrel -

all the other members cited 130 - 170 a barrel !


Three years ago I watched the C-span coverage and witnessed Hofmeister state the above... I tend to think it is the truth, because inflation is nowhere near 300% per decade.

As far as you citing domestic production... there are hundreds of millions of leased aces that remain untouched
for years now this has been the case.

And fresh off the presses



Last month, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) leaked confidential data about oil speculation to a number of media outlets, including the Wall Street Journal. Ordinarily, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the regulatory body that oversees futures trading, does not provide identities of speculators to the public. However, the data leaked by Sanders provides a rare snapshot into the trading volumes by major speculators right before the oil price spike in the summer of 2008.

As experts from Stanford University, Rice University, the University of Massachusetts, and authorities have concluded, rampant oil speculation was the prime driver of the record high prices for crude oil three years ago.






edit on 18-9-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:52 PM
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its the gooberments thieving fuel tax that's killing us. if anything its the government price gouging, they need to only charge 5 cents per gallon and quit stealing from us, those greedy bastards



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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edit on 18-9-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 11:01 PM
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I have had some experience dealing....no thats not right...working with major corps. This is because of my sometime..."Job". The reality of what is supposed to be a free market....which would work fine if all things were equal...but they are not....is carefully hidden information that the average person will never know.

It matters not which party is leadership....deals are made....as long as elections are run and financed the way they are. You don't have a clue. Split Infinity



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


Thanks for that post, it doesn't matter, sometimes you can put all the facts in the table and still people can not see the truth, but then again all you can do is try to educate them and bring them from the propaganda that has taken place in this nation to hide the facts of what is going on with our politics, economy and corruption.

Many can not absorve the big lie about gas prices in the US and how oil prices of oil are manipulated for profits

Oil Prices: Sanders Says Speculators Keeping Crude Artificially High


The American people have a right to know exactly who caused gas prices to skyrocket in 2008 and who is causing them to spike today." Sanders is an Independent who usually supports Democratic Party positions in the Senate.

"This report clearly shows that in the summer of 2008 when gas prices spiked to more than $4 a gallon,Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and other speculators on Wall Street dominated the crude oil futures market causing tremendous damage to the entire economy," Sanders said, in a statement. "The CFTC has kept this information hidden from the American public for nearly three years. That is an outrage."


www.ibtimes.com...

Taking the Cop Off the Oil Speculation Beat


As an oil front group tours the country trying to convince Americans that oil companies aren’t responsible for high gas prices, House Republicans are celebrating the one-year anniversary of Rep. Joe Barton’s (R-TX) apology to BP (coming up this Friday!) by going to bat for the Wall Street speculators and oil traders that are artificially driving up the price of oil (and gas). Here’s a rundown of the action unfolding.


thinkprogress.org...



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