This Is Not A Real Photo Of The Inside Of A Chemtrail Plane Folks

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
I live in a pretty rural part of the midwest. We can go two weeks with normal airplane activity, i.e. small planes, higher airliners flying in straight lines, an airforce jet once in a while.

And then suddenly there will be a day where there are up to 34 scars at a time.

That's because atmospheric conditions necessary for persistent contrails to form don't occur every day You're seeing direct evidence that the contrail explanation is correct

No one seems to really look into it. Just a lot of bleating...I mean repeating...of the answers they have been pre-programmed with.

Actually, many people have been looking into it for decades - but folk like you refuse to listen to them. Why?

Originally posted by Essan
Actually, many people have been looking into it for decades - but folk like you refuse to listen to them. Why?

I didn't start 'listening' to the chemtrail people until I witnessed the creation of a grid in about one hour....

High speed planes laying down a perfect crosshatch... at about 11am.... it was quite remarkable. I have watched days after to see if the same kind of traffic would occur and it didn't... so I do not know what they were doing, but it was very obvious it had a plan... I took stills but I wish I had a movie camera available at the time...

I say high speed because they were higher than commercial traffic and going much faster than the airliners

On two passes there were four planes laying down the 'pattern' at the same time... just slightly behind each other and in the next 'lane'

Until you actually watch this happening... you wouldn't believe it It took this observation to convince me that something was not right

[edit on 13-6-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Essan
Actually, many people have been looking into it for decades - but folk like you refuse to listen to them. Why?

I didn't start 'listening' to the chemtrail people until I witnessed the creation of a grid in about one hour....

High speed planes laying down a perfect crosshatch... at about 11am.... it was quite remarkable. I have watched days after to see if the same kind of traffic would occur and it didn't... so I do not know what they were doing, but it was very obvious it had a plan... I took stills but I wish I had a movie camera available at the time...

I say high speed because they were higher than commercial traffic and going much faster than the airliners

On two passes there were four planes laying down the 'pattern' at the same time... just slightly behind each other and in the next 'lane'

Until you actually watch this happening... you wouldn't believe it

It took this observation to convince me that something was not right

[edit on 13-6-2008 by zorgon]

Chances are, they were just flying normal routes, seperated by altitude, and reached an intersection of routes. You can't tell how far away things are with your eyes at such distances. Unless you were exactly under them, you'd see it as a grid, instead of a stack of intersecting lines.

reply to post by zorgon


zorgon...Hi!! No, I'm not here to bash, so sheath your sword, Sir!
I am unarmed...(I only have one arm, the other is tied behind my back
:lol

I know what area of which country you live in, but will not mention, of course. I'd like to ask, though, when you saw the grid pattern, what date and what time of day???

Also, you certainly know, as I do, the speed of airplanes....commercial passenger airplanes, I mean. Typically 7 to 8 miles per minute...right? Because they are not exceeding Mach 1. If conventional aircraft exceed Mach, in the atmosphere, there should usually be a sonic sound....commonly called a 'sonic boom'. This sonic 'footprint' follows on the shockwave produced by the aircraft exceeding Mach, and propgates down to the Earth's surface, where it is then heard.

HOWEVER....could you have seen 'grids' being developed over where you live at a higher altitude? Say, the Ionosphere? Or, lower, the Mesosphere or the Thermosphere? If so, what could/would do that? Any speculations? And, to what purpose.....HAARP?

Thanks for your posts.

edit...added info



[edit on 6/13/0808 by weedwhacker]

You have planes going North/South, and then some going West/East, and that is suspicious?

Okay, then tell us how that is suspicious? Should the FAA have to change where navaids and airways are, to make you sleep better at night?

What is the preferred angle that contrails should intersect for you to feel better about it?

reply to post by zorgon


You saw what you saw. I didn't.

All I know is that I have been watching - and photographing - the skies above Britain for many years and have yet to see anything that does not look like normal contrails produced by normal commercial air traffic.

But what I do see still gives me cause for concern. We are artificially changing the cloud cover of planet earth and it cannot be for good.

reply to post by Essan


Essan....you live in Britain, so this won't help much.....but will give an idea, and possibly there wil be a site developed that is similar.

ATS is full of a multi-national group of people, and not all of them will visit this thread. So, just for fun, check out 'flightaware' dot com. What you see there, besides live, real time flights and all their info, but you can look at METARs and TAFs....as long as you know the ICAO four digit airport identifier, and you can find that on the site, just type in the airport, it will give you the ICAO code.

Hint....in the Contingous US, all airports begin with a 'K'. In Britain, they usually begin with an 'EG'.....For instance, near London....EGKK is Gatwick.

EGLL is Heathrow. the three digit code for 'Heathrow' is "LHR"....that is the IATA code, not the ICAO code. See? "IATA" is an acronym for a trade group. Hence, when you check your bags, they (hopefully) reach your destination. ICAO is the "International Civil Aviation Orginisation"

That's why every aerodrome needs a four letter designation....and that is what is programmed into modern airplane Nav Systems.

Just for non-pilots....most NavAids have three characters to define them. Actually, I am referring to VORs only, there. NDBs may have only one letter, to define them....so when you type 'R' into the FMS, you wil get a whle slew of choices....you must choose the one that is in the area you are flying....that's why we, as two pilots, use the procedure of 'Verify' before 'Executing' into the onboard computer.

NDBs are virtually obsolete, nowadays anyway. GPS is far better. BUT, every waypoint is still defined, in our NAV systems, by Lat/Long co-ordinates.

BTW, an 'intersection' is still defined by only five letters.....just more for aviation enthusiasts to chew on.....the change to 'five' letters came about because of new ATC computer software.....back in the 1970s/1980s

Come on, you cant bring reality and knowledge to people who believe in chemtrails

Originally posted by weedwhacker
as long as you know the ICAO four digit airport identifier, and you can find that on the site, just type in the airport, it will give you the ICAO code.

So what you are saying is that if I see a whole 'fleet' of aircraft mixed in with the regular traffic on the day I see 'chemtrail patterns' then I could go and check if there was supposed to be that many airplanes in the sky on that day?

I suppose that would take a bit of doing... like trying to plot their course and time from the ground...

Unfortunately as I have only seen them actually created once in the ten years I lived here... it may be tough..

reply to post by zorgon


Well, that site simply shows all ATC flightplans in the computers. Takes some digging, and knowledge of the aviation terms, the abbreviations used in the Flight Plans. Knowing the city pairs helps, since there are certain routes that remain common...all three NYC airports to any other destination, for instance.

...thought I'd edit once more.... I just looked up COA 15, KEWR/PHNL (had Hawai'i on my mind). It is currently inflight, you can read it's Flight Plan. After departure, it went to a fix named 'PARKE' to join J6 (J for Jet Airway)...etc, etc, it will 'coast-out' over LAX, to fly the 'D' route to HNL (DINTY/R576/DENNS) I'm jealous.

sidebar (and I know I'll get teased for this) the very first episode of "My Favorite Martian" is on right now, (1963) and there is a clip of a B-52, at altitude....producing a very pronounced contrail. So, either there have been "chemtrails" since at least 1963, or they are just normally occuring contrails.

Great little trivia bit: "MFM" was shot on the same Desilu soundstage as "Star Trek", later in 1966. AND, Ray Walston guest-starred on "ST: The Next Generation"

Just some fun, off-topic info......

I now return you to our regular programming....

[edit on 6/14/0808 by weedwhacker]

[edit on 6/14/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by zorgon


So what you are saying is that if I see a whole 'fleet' of aircraft mixed in with the regular traffic on the day I see 'chemtrail patterns' then I could go and check if there was supposed to be that many airplanes in the sky on that day?

Tell us what a chemtrail pattern is exactly, and how you came up with it not being contrails or resulting from the usual aircraft up there?

[edit on 15-6-2008 by firepilot]

reply to post by zorgon


Second reply to Zorgon, not ganging up on you....just re-read your post.

You said, at one point, something about 'chemtrail patterns'....then followed with a statement that in the ten years you've lived there, you've only seen 'them' once. ('them' meaning, I assume a 'chemtrail pattern').

I think you said 'unfortunately' somewhere in that sentence, as well.

OK. let's work with your exhaustive scientific observations of the past ten years....

No, instead, let's not. No point. The OP's picture, page one, top....shown to be photoshopped, as to the fake "HAZMAT" label on the lavatory. Even the OP, to his credit, has taken that down.

(Hint to the peanut gallery....'HAZMAT' is industry-speak for 'Hazardous Materials'....)

Also, the original interior photo of a B-777LR undergoing flight testing, well, that's been well pointed out by now too. (hint #2....that was in the OP's post, but it was a photoshopped pic, and that's what started this crazy mess of a 'conspiracy' thread in the first place!!!)

reply to post by gulfstreamsalt


gulfstreamsalt, back to page one, second photo. Do you know what a Holding Pattern is?

I wish I could "embed" a link for you, but you can freely look it up, and if you have questions, come ask me.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
that in the ten years you've lived there, you've only seen 'them' once. ('them' meaning, I assume a 'chemtrail pattern').

No what I said was I only saw them being created once...

Originally posted by firepilot
Tell us what a chemtrail pattern is exactly, and how you came up with it not being contrails or resulting from the usual aircraft up there?

the 'pattern' was almost a perfect 'tic tac toe' style grid... the sky was clear... the other planes did not leave the 'grid' but only normal contrails that broke up quickly... It was very easy to spot the high flying high speed airplanes leaving the 'chemtrails'

As I said had you been there When I get the photos developed I will be posting them... but the most interesting thing was that the space between the trails of the grid filled with cloud... you could actually see them expanding to fill the sky..

My daughter saw and snapped two parts of the trails that produced a cascade like snow... and had a gorgeous rainbow effect...

reply to post by zorgon


Z.....not to diminish your daughter's testimony....but, when she saw the contrails, was it either early morning, or early evening? What I'm asking is, was the Sun at such an angle that its light would cause a 'rainbow' effect, as your lovely daughter described???

Not to waste space, here, for people who understand the refraction of sunlight, and prisms.....and such.....

I've seen, so many times, when I lived in the Southwest of Arizona, so many beautiful sunsets!!! All natural, as far as I could tell. I've seen many a sunrise, from the airplane (cockpit) window too....usually we're scrambling, after a few minutes, to find better sunshades than those that come installed in the airplanes....we get creative.....

So how does a "tic tac toe" equal spraying aircraft?

So far I have seen chemtrail believers talk about intersecting contrails mean spraying, as well as parallel contrails, and then oval holding patterns too. And now we have tic tac toe? Maybe they will even try hangman too.

Can you tell us any verified kind of spray ops that did tic tac toes? Like cropdusting, forestry work, etc?




[edit on 15-6-2008 by firepilot]

Originally posted by gulfstreamsalt
No really you have to believe me!

Well perhaps on this plane I will believe you...

But the explanation given of load balance... well its a lot more than that...

Here is a very interesting file... (if its been brought up since I last checked here, sorry about that...

"The Long Room" (February 15, 2003)

"When we take this thing around the world on the eval flights we bring movies and sleeping bags and camp out here!" my host says, pointing to the vast empty cabin floor between the computers and aft water tanks. Sleeping in a sleeping bag doing mach 0.84 over the North Atlantic at 40,000 feet on one engine. The other shut down, and LEFT shut down, for hours. "But what if you lose the engine for REAL that is holding the plane?" I ask "You can't possibly start the one you shut down for testing after it has been windmilling through the air at -100 degrees in thin air for the last 6 hours! No engine can start that is so cold!" "Sure we can! That's part of the certification! We air start and windmill-start as part of certification on every plane".

X-Plane 777-300 ER (Extended Range)

Originally posted by firepilot
So how does a "tic tac toe" equal spraying aircraft?

You asked for a description of what it 'looked like' If you cannot understand that you will have to wait for the pictures. I could probably find a similar one on the net, but hey... more important priorities here...

Looked sorta like this one from the OP, only more pronounced



Also found the OP here..
www.museumofhoaxes.com...

Can you tell us any verified kind of spray ops that did tic tac toes? Like cropdusting, forestry work, etc?

Yup I sure can... weather modification using silver iodide, and a few others I will get to in a new thread

Dumping water on fires or crop dusting is too low to the ground to be classed as 'chemtrails'

but then judging by your nick name here you probably knew this and assume just because you may have flown such water dumps that you know everything that is going on up there...

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Z.....not to diminish your daughter's testimony....but, when she saw the contrails, was it either early morning, or early evening?

Okay I will try once more...

I already stated the time of the observation...

And what I asked you was is there any place that I can get a report of all the traffic that SHOULD have been in the air on a specific day at a specific time in a specific area...

The reason I asked this was because if there is then I could compare notes to what is REPORTED to be flying over head on a given day... and take notes and see if these reports coincide with what is observed...

I remember very clearly in another thread you stated that ALL traffic is recorded

So where can I find a listing of scheduled aircraft both civilian and military for a given day so I have something to use as a checklist

Surely this would be a valuable tool in finding out if the observed traffic flying the grid I saw in a 1 hour period (approx) matches the records as 'scheduled flights'

Then with photos and time stamps on images I could then track what is in the air and compare...

So please just answer me where I can find this listing or if its not possible to get and try to stay on topic just this once

Thanks

Originally posted by firepilot

Tell us what a chemtrail pattern is exactly, and how you came up with it not being contrails or resulting from the usual aircraft up there?

Just do a search in the other chemtrail threads here... I have stated my opinion and shown examples many times and have no time to repeat it all here...

Chances are, they were just flying normal routes, seperated by altitude, and reached an intersection of routes.

Sure whatever you say... and how do you know whether or not I can judge distances? But not to worry I have no intention of trying to convince you I am quite sure if you witnessed it you would be able to rationalize it anyway