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Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son

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posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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Since when has the Catholic Church been all-inclusive of everyone with unwavering tolerance for any type of disruption?

LOL, you're thinking of Protestant churches. You know, the church that EXIST to fill in the gaps the Catholic church wasn't covering...




posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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Ummmmm......just thought of something.

"god" answers prayers, right???

Why isn't this autistic human being 'healed' by "god"???

"god" is all-powerful, all-knowing, and a benevolent, caring power....right? Capable of anything and everything?

So, this devout catholic woman wishes to pray, with her son, who she seems to love very much. Why won't "god" fix him? Why will "god" allow her to suffer in this way?

Christians need to consider these questions...and not fall back on the 'mysterious' explanation.....



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


Churches are private. They can ban whom they want. End of issue. The rest is just puffery.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Straight Razor
 


Straight Razor???

Churches are private?? As in, like.....a Private Club????

Then, why are they tax-exempt?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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I think that most of you who are critical of the church's decision (I'm agnostic, by the way and am NOT an advocate of organized religion), have no experience with violent children with autism. If you have not been witness to the destruction they can cause have no place judging the church for their decision. In addition, these children cannot be reasoned with, as other children may be. It does no good to "punish" them in the traditional sense, because most of them have a lack of affect that would allow them to respond.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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Everyone should watch "the women who thinks like a cow" Its a great piece about autism. From it im starting to think how great a slave they could make with fear as a control...much like the catholic church has done in its thousand year reign. Hopefully with that meeting of scientist thell discover the truth about autism. Patiance, peace, love and hope to all who believe in truth.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by optimistic skeptic
 


optimistic, my point was....yes, the general congregration have a right to uninterrupted services. Just as a movie goer has the same right to an uninterrupted movie experience.

(fiction is fiction, after all!!!)

BUT....I wished a christian would come along and explain why this woman, this mother, who loves her son very deeply....and who believes in a Just and True god....and just expects some compassion, from a church (tax exempt) that professes to preach compassion, is not allowed any compassion.

This woman, the mother....simply wishes to pray, in her church....desperately hoping that somehow Jesus will help her son.

In her mind, she may believe that in order to get her prayers answered, she must be inside the church. It is not for us to judge her beliefs.

Others who attend.....christians?? Should understand this woman's pain....the priest should......isn't that what christianity is supposed to be about???

Sorry....I see 'hyprocisy' written all over it.....



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Oh, I could not agree more that the entire church system is full of hypocrisy....that's what their book is based on...LOL

I definitely know this mother's pain, and she has a right to her opinions about the church's decision. Being raised in a devout Christian home, I know that she firmly believes in the power of prayer and that god may heal her son. I'm sure that only adds to her sadness that she can't keep her son in church for mass. However, since the church holds that ritual so sacred, I'm sure it had to be severely disruptive for them reach their decision to exclude him from mass.

I think it will be very interesting to watch how this story folds out within the church and the media.

Thanks for your input, you make fair arguments.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
Therefore provide a special mass. Mass celebrated in the same room as the rest of the congregation makes a huge difference. I stopped going to a church because if you were there even 10 mins prior, you were forced to watch on a t.v. in an overflow room. What my real problem is, is the fact that they will shuffle around pedophiles, and give refuge to illegal aliens, but use the courts to keep a member out? If it were true that this kid were really all that much of a disturbance, would the parents so vehemently deny it? It's about hypocrisy.


I'd say you are viewing this through your own bias against the Catholic Church, instead of considering that the child may in fact be dangerous and disruptive.

OP Source.

The Rev. Daniel Walz wrote in his petition for the restraining order that Adam - who already is more than 6 feet tall and weighs more than 225 pounds - has hit a child, has nearly knocked over elderly parishioners while bolting from his pew, has spit at people and has urinated in the church.


If true, this is pretty solid reason to take this action. Mothers are Mothers, they will always side with their child even if wrong. In this case the Church should get the benefit of the doubt I think.

You should separate your anger at the Catholic Leadership from your view of Catholics. I'm not Catholic, but I can see that many are making the intellectually dishonest move of painting everyone in the Church with the same brush. Be the better person; turn the other cheek.


Jane Marrin, who works for the Diocese of St. Cloud and is acting as a spokeswoman for the parish, said the church board tried working with the Races to find "reasonable accommodations." That included offering a video feed of Mass that could be watched in the church basement.

The family refused all suggestions, she said.


If it is true they refused the offered accommodations, it is clear who is being unreasonable. here.

I too have been around an Autistic Child. 20 years ago I had a friend (co-worker) who would occasionally need to bring her Autistic Brother with her to give her Mother a break. He was very violent, physical and hard to control. He was maybe 100 lbs and I can't imagine controlling him at over 6 feet and 225 lbs..

The real story here may be the families being in denial about their own child it would seem.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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I think the church made the right decision on this. I would not want to be in a church where a autistic child is constantly disrupting the sermon. If they did not stop this child from attending, I could see many of the church's participants finding a new church, or not going to the mass when that child attends. The catholic church is already in enough trouble in terms of attendance and people realizing the amount of bull they constantly preach, so the last thing they need is another reason for people to not go to church.

They should just bring the child to an inner city church, I am sure his loud and disruptive would fit right in.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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I see most of your points, although one poster seems to think Special Needs people are like animals...
I understand that the church has its view, and I also point out the other view. The parents vs. the church.
However, my real point was the restraining order. In light of the churches blatant disregard for societies laws, (shuffling pedophiles, burning evidence, giving "sanctuary" to illegal immigrants) I just find it a little wrong that they filed such an order...



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 
I have waited on Adam and his family several times at Burger King.
He is a very big boy. His parents stay at his side constantly and are very patient with him. I commend them for this. He plainly exhibited autistic behavior which I myself recognized, but I could see how other people would be alarmed. I never witnessed him doing or exhibiting any dangerous behavior however. In my opinion, the community should be helping this family in any way that they can.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by JesterMan
This story is pretty messed up. If this Priest is supposed to be an example of Christ to his parish he is totally screwing that up. Jesus would have never excluded someone from his teachings because that person had a mental dissorder. I think that instead of molesting children, the Catholic leaders should spend more time reading the bible.


Jesus could have also healed the autistic boy to ensure he didn't hurt others.

If the issue is about safety, then there's no question the boy should be barred from the service. Or does it not become an issue until AFTER someone gets hurt or worse?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by minniesoda
 


Thank you for putting a face to this madness. Maybe you can elaborate on the behavior of this young man, let some of those who are using extremes as an example what the case really is?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by minniesoda
reply to post by jasonjnelson
 
I have waited on Adam and his family several times at Burger King.
He is a very big boy. His parents stay at his side constantly and are very patient with him. I commend them for this. He plainly exhibited autistic behavior which I myself recognized, but I could see how other people would be alarmed. I never witnessed him doing or exhibiting any dangerous behavior however. In my opinion, the community should be helping this family in any way that they can.

It's wonderful to know he's welcomed and accepted somewhere.. and you are indeed part of his community.
I hope you are not in the minority.

[edit on 2-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 
Everytime Adam comes into the resteraunt he is always smiling. You can tell he is excited to get his food. He gives me eye contact, and repeats mmmmm mmmmmm. Then he sits in the booth with his parents and eats his food. He does some rocking and mmm mmm'ing but thats about it. Pretty harmless.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:15 PM
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There is alot of stigma surrounding autism. It's possible the church took advantage of this and assumed people would believe the urininating story without question.. yet the family said it is a lie. Why do people believe the catholic church above the family when the church has proven it lies? Thats how they got away with protecting and enabling child molestors.

People whine about catholic bashing but are only too willing to believe the worst of autistics.. :shk:

[edit on 2-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:15 PM
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Interesting discussion by everyone. The ad homonym arguments have shown some true colours. It has been very enlightening.

Very nice that someone who actually knows the boy in real life shows up on ATS to defend his behaviour. Bit of a miracle in itself.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by MareNostra
 
well actually I was shocked to see it here on ATS. I never post, but have been an avid fan of reading the boards everyday.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Straight Razor
 


Straight Razor???

Churches are private?? As in, like.....a Private Club????

Then, why are they tax-exempt?



Because that was the compromise to craft the US Constitution. They are tax exempt in exchange for having no part in government. Churches are private institutions, not public. They can include or exclude anyone they want. Try to be a Nazi attending a service at a synagogue and see how quickly you can be kicked out.



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