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Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son

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posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 12:29 AM
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Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son


hosted.ap.org< br />

Carol Race thinks it's important for her 13-year-old son to be in church on Sundays for Catholic Mass.

Leaders of the Church of St. Joseph once felt the same way, but not anymore. They say Race's autistic son Adam is disruptive and his erratic behavior threatens the safety of other parishioners.

The northern Minnesota church has obtained a restraining order to keep Adam away, an action that has been deeply hurtful to the Race family and has brought them support from parents of other autistic children.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 12:29 AM
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I think this is a very interesting case, as the Catholic church feels obligated to take in illegal immigrants, but will not let one of it's faithful into the main congregation. The same church that would feel aborting this baby would have been a mortal sin. Are there any thoughts?

hosted.ap.org< br /> (visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson


I think this is a very interesting case, as the Catholic church feels obligated to take in illegal immigrants, but will not let one of it's faithful into the main congregation. The same church that would feel aborting this baby would have been a mortal sin. Are there any thoughts?

hosted.ap.org< br /> (visit the link for the full news article)


I think you pretty much said it there. It's like denying people condoms and saying God is punishing them for *insert reason here* by giving them AIDS. So where do they to take the kid? Do they outright say he doesn't belong in the church because of the way he was born or is there a "special" church he can goto?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


They said they can put him and family in another room with speakers, etc... It's no different then parents taking their babies to the nursery’s. There is speakers in there as well.

Why do the parents want their kid to spit, pee, and hit others?


On the other hand they say he don't do this. So who do we believe now?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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I wonder how they think God feels about them banning one of his children from a place of worship. Despite what they preach, their actions don't show much compassion.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


It's "child with autism" and not "autistic child." Important distinction. Put the person first.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


In my first semester of grad school, I had a severely autistic patient that was only 7 years old. In the semester I treated her, she broke her mother's nose, cut off one of her own fingers, and broke her twin's arm. She was extremely violent. She had to wear a helmet 24 hours a day to keep her from sustaining head injuries when she banged her head against the wall for hours at a time. We had to restrain her during therapy because the first week of treatment she pulled out my assistant's hair and scratched her until she bled. I have worked with many autistic children, and no others have been violent. However, I have seen first hand why the church may choose to ask the family to keep him out of the service. And, she was only 7 years old at the time. This is a 13-year old boy, and I'm sure he can be very difficult to restrain and control. Although I greatly sympathize with the mother (as I know how exhausting it can be to raise an autistic child), I can say from experience that the church may have good reason for what they are doing.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 01:34 AM
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Hmm..i treat autistic people alot, and they can be disruptive. Added to this, mass is a ritual, with a specific mood and tone. When i am doing my morning meditation ritual the last thing i want is some disruptive energy or noise around me as it can be difficult to achieve my state of "communion" with such distractions and i imagine the catholics may feel the same way. many times in our daily spiritual practice we are attempting to cultivate a certain trance or state of mind. NO, disruptive children in general do not belong in these types of environments i think, and certainly not if the people seeking solace there request it so. The child is not being banned from the churh in general, unless i missunderstand, but only from the Mass, which seems quite reasonable to me. I would think its pretty selfish of the mother to not understand how other people may feel about this, as if i had a screaming wailing child i would certainly understand if people didnt want me around their dining experiences, their moviegoing trips, or their spiritual practice.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:15 AM
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Therefore provide a special mass. Mass celebrated in the same room as the rest of the congregation makes a huge difference. I stopped going to a church because if you were there even 10 mins prior, you were forced to watch on a t.v. in an overflow room. What my real problem is, is the fact that they will shuffle around pedophiles, and give refuge to illegal aliens, but use the courts to keep a member out? If it were true that this kid were really all that much of a disturbance, would the parents so vehemently deny it? It's about hypocrisy.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:25 AM
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i see we're both making assumptions here. Im assuming the child was disturbing to some, and your assuming the child was not. At any rate, i very much doubt a nonfunctional autistic child gets much from attending mass. The child probably finds sucking her thumb to be just as ecstatic a religious experience, and probably more fullfilling.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:32 AM
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Should I really address the whole "thumb sucking bit"? The fact remains, that the catholic chuch preaches one thing, does another, and then sticks it to the people. I think that this child was probably a little disruptive, and the parents a little uncompromising, however it doesn't release the church from the fraud that is their message.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


jason....there was a time, when as a secular humanist, and not particularly fond of the Catholic Church (or any organized "religion", for that matter), I might have jumped on your bandwagon.

But, since I am involved with a Catholic, right now, I find I cannot simply dismiss their 'beliefs' so easily. (I do not in any, way, shape or form hold to the beliefs.....but I respect their rights to believe as they do)

What I do think, based on this incident in MN, seems to be a local Parish problem (if that is the correct term?)

I would hope that enough publicity, especially this kind, would lead to a reform, at that particular church.

To imagine that fellow Christians.....ones who supposedly follow the teachings of someone they revere, would not have compassion????

Boggles the mind.....of this humanist.


one spelling boo-boo


[edit on 6/2/0808 by weedwhacker]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
What my real problem is, is the fact that they will shuffle around pedophiles, and give refuge to illegal aliens, but use the courts to keep a member out? If it were true that this kid were really all that much of a disturbance, would the parents so vehemently deny it? It's about hypocrisy.


I think this is more of an isolated incident rather than a widespread problem like the whole pedophile thing.

The problem with a situation like this is how easily it is spun. The church has the right to remove the child if he was as big a disturbance as they claimed he was. I'm not religious myself, but I understand that this is a sacred tradition to many people, and they don't need to be bothered if it's that big of a deal.

It's particularly sad because the poor child has no control over his actions. The high school I went to had a statewide program for young adults with autism, and I could certainly see how a more severe case could cause some of the problems described. Public urination was actually one of the more embarrassing things the children had to endure, as everybody around would point and laugh, even though it was no secret the person had autism. And this happened more than a few times, to more than a few students.

In the end, it comes down to the willingness to compromise. The church seems to be willing to compromise, but the mother does not. She wants her son in the room with everyone else, and it's understandable why, but it isn't going to happen. I just hope they drop the charges and settle everything without making a big deal out of it.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 02:58 AM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


Either way, it shows me that the same church that willingly has done so many horrific things in the name of my saviour, has so little to offer in the way of compassion for this family. Like I said, we have only the families side of it, but this was an AP article, not fox(faux) news. And the family vehemently denies the accusations put forth by the church.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 03:10 AM
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I always thought that the Catholic Church wanted all the 13 year old boys they could get.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 03:10 AM
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The thumb sucking thing was just a silly example, but i still fail to understand why people dont realize the gravity of spiritual ritual, and the importance of proper setting and atmosphere for it. Do none of you engage in any kind of somber spiritual practice? Or do you just have no experience with autism? If you answer "yes i do" to both these things you should understand the need for proper set and setting, and the impropriety of having an out of control (assumption) being in the same room while this is going on.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by pexx421
 


pexx....isn't the assumption that a Christian will accept everyone?

I think the propriety of the Service would not be diminished because of a Parishiner, and her child. Isn't this Parishiner (sorry about the spelling) hoping to find a 'miracle'??? Isn't that one aspect of the Catholic Faith" The miracle???

I don't wish to seem ignorant of the faith, just asking....because I think people believe this stuff. AND, maybe this Mother believes that if she prays enough, her child will be 'healed'.

Why should this devout Catholic be barred from a service, if it means that much to her (and her son)? Because it annoys others???

It's not a movis theater!!! It is a Church!!!!

Where is the compassion?

[edit on 6/2/0808 by weedwhacker]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 03:26 AM
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dont be silly. Accepting someone as a person, and including them in your solemn rituals are two different things. I dont see people inviting everyone to their childs circumcision, or to confession. Has the child even gone to confirmation or had her first communion? The idea that excluding the child from a CEREMONY that the child cant understand or appreciate equates to rejection of the child is rediculous. There is a time and place for everything, and i posit that mass can be similar to meditation where you look for an environment of calm and peaceful energy to cultivate a spirit of communion or transcendence. Should other peoples experience of this be marred or sacrificed because a mother cant differentiate between what situations are proper to include loud and possibly obnoxious influences and which situations arent proper?? You wouldnt bring an autistic child to a buddhist meditation or a native american sweat lodge, why should a mass be any different?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 03:30 AM
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as far as miracles go, the child shouldnt have to BE there for a miracle to occur. I would imagine if god decided to reach down and touch someone, it wouldnt matter if the kid was in church, at home, or in a bathroom. Also, i imagine they didnt tell her to leave in the middle of the mass, so THERE's the compassion. It was obviously disruptive to SOMEONE, most likely the priest.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 03:35 AM
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This story is pretty messed up. If this Priest is supposed to be an example of Christ to his parish he is totally screwing that up. Jesus would have never excluded someone from his teachings because that person had a mental dissorder. I think that instead of molesting children, the Catholic leaders should spend more time reading the bible.




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