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Minn. mom fights church ban on her autistic son

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posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 04:16 AM
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i doubt its because that person had a mental disorder, its most likely because the child is disruptive and unruly. We dont allow autistic children in regular classes with other children for the exact same reason. You could just as soon bring a dog to church and have it barking all during mass.




posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by pexx421
The thumb sucking thing was just a silly example, but i still fail to understand why people dont realize the gravity of spiritual ritual, and the importance of proper setting and atmosphere for it.

A truly spiritual aware person would probably be evolved and mature enough to see that someone with severe autism would need god, compassion and ACCEPTENCE more.. especially with all the "Don't let the leper near me!" hypocrites making them feel unwelcome. Quite frankly there are many 'christians' that could benefit from actually practicing some of that tolerence Jesus was so big on.

Do none of you engage in any kind of somber spiritual practice? Or do you just have no experience with autism? If you answer "yes i do" to both these things you should understand the need for proper set and setting, and the impropriety of having an out of control (assumption) being in the same room while this is going on.

I can say yes to both.
Sounds like you are more worried about ambience and having the church atmosphere comform to your needs above other people. You cannot commune with god while shunning the other "beings" he's created. Who are you to say who's welcome in the house of god and who isn't?

On a sidenote I am DISGUSTED at the things that have been said on this thread.. they are HUMAN BEINGS.. not animals.

[edit on 2-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by pexx421
i doubt its because that person had a mental disorder, its most likely because the child is disruptive and unruly. We dont allow autistic children in regular classes with other children for the exact same reason.

Actually in Australia they do.. and not all autistic kids are unruly. Some are extreamily quiet and passive.. there is a spectrum of autistic disorders.. of which you obviously know nothing about.

You could just as soon bring a dog to church and have it barking all during mass.

You really should be ashamed of yourself.. I would rather hear a person with autism be distruptive than read any more of your biggoted ignorance.

Edit. Still stunned that you compared a disabled person to a barking dog..


[edit on 2-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:31 AM
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i would think a truly spiritual and aware person would understand that different people have different needs for their spiritual practice, and a disruptive child isnt normally one of those. You can have god, compassion, and acceptance, you just dont necessarily need them during ritualistic spiritual practice. I am not a christian, but obviously some of you are predisposed against catholics and accept any excuse to criticize them. i am not concerned about MY needs because i practice my spirituality in private. However, this is about the congregations needs, and apparently they expressed those needs.....the absence of the child during mass. I imagine it is their right to decide how they practice and who are you to criticize their choice of a peaceful setting for that practice? Secondly i dont hold human beings to be above animals. Indeed, i have seen chimps who have more capacity for affection and intelligence than some autistic children i have seen. And lastly, i am quite familiar with autism spectrum, however, it was already expressed by the priest that the child was disruptive, so i think that rather rules out the shy and quiet theory.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:40 AM
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Look, church is a club. She got kicked outa the club cause the couldnt play by the rules. She should go and take her autistic daughter and start their own club, thats what most people do when they are rejected by the church. They can get a whole group of autistic catholic kids together and make up their own ceremonies. The singing might not be as nice, and the floor might be a little bit wetter, but it could work. I have faith.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by pexx421
Look, church is a club. She got kicked outa the club cause the couldnt play by the rules.

She broke the ten commandments now? Doesn't god forgive?

She should go and take her autistic daughter and start their own club, thats what most people do when they are rejected by the church. They can get a whole group of autistic catholic kids together and make up their own ceremonies. The singing might not be as nice, and the floor might be a little bit wetter,


You obviously have issues with disabled people.. I do not believe for a minute that you have worked with autistics. Could you please REFRAIN from making denogrative quips about them sucking thumbs, being like dogs or wetting floors?

but it could work. I have faith.

So the answer is segregation? Should they have seperate shopping centres as well so YOU aren't disturbed while doing your shopping? Seperate churches, seperate schools, seperate restaurants. seperate swimming pools..

hey.. that sounds familar: No dogs. no irish no blacks.. and no autistics. what a spiritually enlightened person you are!


[edit on 2-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:03 AM
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what are you talking about "god doesnt forgive"? theres nothing to forgive, they just want the child not present at mass. I dont know why you all think this is so important, other than its a great excuse to criticize catholics. And secondly, despite the fact that the last quote was a joke (and a damn fine one too!)(yeah, nothing is sacred), i never said anything about segregation for people. But its somewhat selfish for a parent to not realize when their child is innappropriate for a certain setting. Honestly, are children allowed into serious or solemn movies? well, yes, but a respectful parent would know if their child specifically is well behaved enough to sit through one without bothering all the people there who paid to enjoy a movie..and to take the child out if its noticably bothering other people... Now i know its a bit much to expect a parent to be considerate (or any of you it seems for that matter) but it still seems reasonable. We all can tell when we are bothering other people, and to sit and continue to do it "because you can" is just thoughtless. The same applies to being in a nice restaurant, you can tell if its a romantic or intimate atmosphere restaurant, and to bring wild screaming wailing kids is pretty inconsiderate. Now you can CHOOSE to be inconsiderate, and many people apparently do. And its good to know there are people like you guys who will sit and support their right to be inconsiderate, and castigate anyone who complains about it. I remember one night i was on a date with a woman at a nice restaurant, and a man was sitting in a table behind us with his 3 wailing brats, and he had on headphones!! Its good to know that this "entitlement" behaviour is encouraged here in america now that values such as "respect" and "wisdom" are things of the past. Where the individuals rudeness and thoughtlessness can trump the needs or wants of all the people around them.


sty

posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:06 AM
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does not the church suposed to pray for healing? where is the power the church once claimed?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:12 AM
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sorry guys, churches dont give out healings anymore. They've been on back order for quite some time...where have you guys been?



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:13 AM
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far as i know, only things successful for curing autism so far are the holy candida cleanse and the sacred Chelation therapy. I dont think prayer works for it just yet.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:13 AM
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far as i know, only things successful for curing autism so far are the holy candida cleanse and the sacred Chelation therapy. I dont think prayer works for it just yet.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by pexx421
what are you talking about "god doesnt forgive"? theres nothing to forgive, they just want the child not present at mass. I dont know why you all think this is so important, other than its a great excuse to criticize catholics. And secondly, despite the fact that the last quote was a joke (and a damn fine one too!)(yeah, nothing is sacred),

Hate speach is not encouraged on ATS.. making jokes at the expense of the disabled is disgraceful. Personally I feel your attitude is extreamily hateful and ignorant.. but I am willing to tolerate your presense on the message boards.. though you might want to think about finding one that caters to "your own kind". Hows that sound?

i never said anything about segregation for people.

Your suggestion was that mothers should start their own church for autistic children. THAT is segregation and persecution.. something christianity is suppose to be against.

But its somewhat selfish for a parent to not realize when their child is innappropriate for a certain setting.

What setting is that.. life? If you are hoping to ban certain people from church.. you'll start banning them from other PUBLIC places.

[edit on 2-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:25 AM
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im sorry riley, but you seem pretty simplistic. It seems like your just fine enforcing this person on people who dont want them around. I cant even imagine why a person would WANT to be around a place where their presence is considered disruptive and unappreciated. Further, there was no "hate" in my speach, i wasnt advocating hurting or slandering the individuals, and theres nothing wrong with cracking jokes in ANY situation. It certainly wasnt at the mother or daughters expense because they are never going to read this blog. You still never answered why its right to inflict a disruptive person on a group who doesnt want them there. This is NOT a public venue, a church is PRIVATE, and not a democratic institution, and not subject to laws of equal opportunity under our government. Its THEIR religious practice, not yours, so shouldnt THEY as a group be able to decide whats best for them in their endeavors to speak with god? Dont give me that BS about "oh, find god in those around you" because sometimes very specific settings and techniques are required to achieve the state of mind that we look for in spiritual practice. Try meditating with a wailing kid around. Try tai chi or yoga when theres mexican music blaring from your neighbors door. Try hypnotherapy when there is a train running by in the background. And try accepting that its their choice and not yours. No one comes in and tells YOU who you need to accept into YOUR church



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by pexx421
im sorry riley, but you seem pretty simplistic. It seems like your just fine enforcing this person on people who dont want them around.

Most of society does not want disabled or handicapped people around. Thats bad luck.. they're going to have to get used to there being imperfection in the world.

I cant even imagine why a person would WANT to be around a place where their presence is considered disruptive and unappreciated.

Obviously they are there to be near their god. Obviously the mother feels she needs it.

Further, there was no "hate" in my speach,

Comparing a human being to a barking DOG is hate speach.

i wasnt advocating hurting or slandering the individuals,

No.. you are advocating banishing/segregating them.

and theres nothing wrong with cracking jokes in ANY situation.

Well yes there is. You made wisecracks about wet floors and thumb sucking etc. I am asking you AGAIN.. please show respect and stop doing it.

[edit on 2-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 06:43 AM
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its not about disabled or handicapped people being in society. There is nothing wrong with disabled or handicapped people. I have worked with many autistic people, some are functional, others sit there smacking themselves and others, honking and hooting and hollering, and defacating on themselves. Does this belong in church? in a movie? in a restaurant? Absolutely not. Get over it. there are certain levels of acceptability, but it gets to a point. I have seen some kids who are autistic who really belong nowhere other than their home, perhaps a public park, and a hospital, THATS IT.
You can be near god anywhere because he/she/it is everywhere. Dont need to bring my grandma to a church if i want to pray for my grandma, and ditto here.
Personally i find your constant insult at being compared to a dog insulting to dogs. God doesnt love you anymore than he loves the dog or the lion or the dolphin...or the rose, or the weed, etc etc...



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 07:21 AM
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When my children were infants we often sat in the "infants room" or whatever you want to call it - with a loud speaker (no televised mass back then) to listen to mass. Everyone did this if their babies/children were crying or being disruptive. I've also left weddings and funerals because I thought my children might be disrupting others.

Now, of course my heart goes out to this family - having a special needs child is difficult and a challenge at the best of times. We have special needs children in our extended family so I have first hand experience.

Of course the family has a right to attend mass - however - no one has a right to endanger another human being. The family contests the statements that the young man spit on people and urinated in the church. I'm not sure who to believe but regardless, being special needs does not mean that you have the right to urinate in public or assault people - no matter if you're in a mall, museum, church, school etc. etc.

I find it strange that this family cannot see the forest for the trees.

I just had a terrible thought - and I hope I'm 100% wrong...but what the heck - I'll write it anyway:

What is worse than wrongful persecution? When a family uses their special needs child as a tool to gain public attention.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 07:32 AM
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a voice of reason? on this board? novel.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 07:36 AM
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According to the AP story, “Adam struck a child during mass, nearly knocks elderly parishioners over…, spits and sometimes urinates in church and fights when he is being restrained. He also… assaulted a girl by pulling her onto his lap and….There were people… who could have been injured or killed…”

how could they ask such a stellar member of the congregation not to attend?? Actually he sound like a right regular catholic to me!


[edit on 2-6-2008 by pexx421]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by pexx421
According to the AP story, “Adam struck a child during mass, nearly knocks elderly parishioners over…, spits and sometimes urinates in church and fights when he is being restrained. He also… assaulted a girl by pulling her onto his lap and….There were people… who could have been injured or killed…”


..and according to the family that never happened. It's the family's word against the priest's.

hosted.ap.org..."He's never actually injured anyone," she said. "He's never knocked down anyone. He's never urinated on anyone or spit on anyone."



If you want to call the family liars- fine but the priest might be lieing too. He might just have a 'thing' against retarded people.. seems it's all the rage these days.


[edit on 2-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 07:52 AM
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Carol Race said it all started last June, when Walz and a church trustee visited the Races at their home address the behavior of Adam, who stands taller than six feet and weighs more than 225 pounds.

In an affidavit, Walz said the church "explored and offered many options for accommodations that would assist the family while protecting the safety of parishioners. The family refused those offers of accommodation."

According to Walz, Adam struck a child during mass, nearly knocks elderly parishioners over when he hastily exits the church, spits and sometimes urinates in church and fights when he is being restrained.

He also one time assaulted a girl by pulling her onto his lap and, during Easter mass, ran to the parking lot and got into two vehicles, starting them and revving the engine, Walz alleged.

Im sure if it was just the priests word the parishioners would have spoken up against him. Its obvious your just hate mongering against the catholic church.. Hey, im not even catholic i have nothing vested in this, i have just spent lots of time with people with autism and i know FULLY how disruptive they can be, and I understand that if i had an autistic child i would not want to inflict that upon those around me. The church tried to work with them...they refused. Get over it, the woman is being uncompromising and unreasonable, and so are you.



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