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Masons not a secret society

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posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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Right on, it's so nice to have someone come along and have something positive to say about Masons. So which Order are you a member of, Rainbow or Job's Daughters? I think that's a first here, though I could be wrong. Welcome!

Do mind the trolls, they can be very hateful and ignorant and they might label you a Satanist or some crap if you back up the Masons. I'm not a Mason but I support them and am in the process of petitioning now.

Again welcome, we're glad to have you!




posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 02:37 AM
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Do people who defend Freemasonry realize the impossibility of what they are doing?

Sure, its easy to make fun of the 'accuser', especially when 3/4 of the active board is Masons, but have you ever considered in what way a SMALL GROUP would seek to manipulate Masonry, as good and wholesome it is?

And no, it would not be necessary for them to infiltrate...

Really, little 14 year old girl (yes, I think you are that mature, congrats) do you think that if a small part of Freemasonry was keeping a secret from the rest, that you would have an inkling of a clue? No, you didn't think of that, did you.

You assumed because Masons are labelled as a group, that if they don't do wrong as a group, all allegations must be false.

Hmm, places other than Masonry that require oaths... Hell's Angels, the Triads, and the Mafia? But its not because they are hiding something, they just want to keep their universal truths for those worthy of learning, and willing to do what it takes to learn.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
especially when 3/4 of the active board is Masons,


Ever wondered why this is. Considered maybe that all the claims made have already been answered and the people claiming conspiracy etc are just repeating age old claims that no one has been able to prove and most people of intelligence have finally realised they are a load of codswallop.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 10:15 AM
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I just went back and read through some of the first pages of this thread...



Originally posted by infinite
i've spoken to a freemason a few weeks ago and when i said "secret society" he quickly told me that the masons are not. So i asked him what do they do for rituals,meetings,etc and he said ..."thats a secret"

sooo their not a secret society, just 90% of it is secret...errmm great logic Mr.Mason



Originally posted by TgSoe
Iis it true that Masons from the 4th degree up are involved in the black occult?



Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Leveller~~
I don't know, if that is the oath taken by a freemason initiate, it sure looks a lot more secret and serious than revealing passwords and other such trivialities.
Besides this oath, is there an accompanying ceremony, with men in black garb, perhaps?

We can also assume from your comments that women are NOT allowed???



Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by MOOR45
Only the European Masons receive the true third degree. This is because Asiatic members already contain the essence of the third degree in their DNA. They would need a special ritual in a lodge to obtain this symbolically.


WTF, over? Are you smoking crack? How can one "contain the essence of the third degree" in their DNA? I'm sure we would all love to hear the explanation for that statement, if for no other reason than sheer humor. Please... Enlighten us...


Sorry about the crack comment, I don't mean to be antagonistic, that just sounds really absurd to me.



Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "And ALL MEN CAN BECOME MASONS. Only the European Masons receive the true third degree. This is because Asiatic members already contain the essence of the third degree in their DNA."

- Good Call Axeman - this needs to be followed up on. All men can become Masons - but then he said only Europeans & Asians can recieve the 3rd Degree because of thier DNA. Is that not RACIST? I don't believe that this is true. Since the THIRD DEGREE is the HIGHEST DEGREE of MASONRY - It is the same all around the world were Masonry is Active. The so called
"Higer Degree's" & various "Rites" are just philisophical elaborations on the Second & Third Degree. People who haven't finished the lower degrees should not worry about the "Higher Degree's" - that is a masterfull way of throwing people off track!!!!



Oh, how far we have come...


[edit on 2/11/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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BTW, gypsychild, see what I mean?



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Do people who defend Freemasonry realize the impossibility of what they are doing?


I often think the same thing about the opponents of Freemasonry; there is so much futility in them. They never seem to be able to present any facts, but only repeated rhetoric and slander.

By researching modern history, we can practically find no other organization who has played such a role in establishing liberty and freedom than Freemasonry.

Is it impossible to defend Freemasonry? Not only is it possible, but it seems there's very little, if anything, to defend in the first place. Actions speak louder than words, and a good tree is known by good fruit.

Those who are opposed to Freemasonry have the opposite problem: they have to explain Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, the Holy Inquisition, and the other leading anti-Masons and anti-Masonic movements. There's is a lost cause from the start.


Hmm, places other than Masonry that require oaths... Hell's Angels, the Triads, and the Mafia?


You left out public offices, weddings, armed force services, law enforcement, the Oath of Hippocrates for physicians, and jury duty.

Now surely you can do better than this, can't you?



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 01:20 PM
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Lawyers also take a secret oath.

Why didn't you mention that one? Because of the negative connotation of lawyers? And them keeping secrets is not comparable to Masonry, because they aren't hiding anything either!

So Commanding Officer, Worshipful Master, God, its all the same, isn't it?



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by akilles

So Commanding Officer, Worshipful Master, God, its all the same, isn't it?



How old are you anyway?



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by akilles

So Commanding Officer, Worshipful Master, God, its all the same, isn't it?



How old are you anyway?


I'm going to give him more credit than I should and say 15-16.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 04:17 PM
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Come on, I thought we were sticking to the theory that I was kicked out of Masonry for drunk driving, or having improper thoughts about my Brothers or something.

Do you go on your knees for any man?

I don't.

Have you ever been blindfolded symbolically?

I haven't.

Not that I follow the Bible as some sort of you know, Holy Doctrine, but it says "But I say unto you, swear not at all, not by heaven, nor by earth..."
And so is the oath not taken seriously? Is this what I am to believe, is the trouble of having each Mason memorize his oaths, and terrifying him with ritual he does not understand, all for fun?



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Come on, I thought we were sticking to the theory that I was kicked out of Masonry for drunk driving, or having improper thoughts about my Brothers or something.

Do you go on your knees for any man?

I don't.


Your point being?


Have you ever been blindfolded symbolically?

I haven't.


Your point being?


Not that I follow the Bible as some sort of you know, Holy Doctrine, but it says "But I say unto you, swear not at all, not by heaven, nor by earth..."
And so is the oath not taken seriously? Is this what I am to believe, is the trouble of having each Mason memorize his oaths, and terrifying him with ritual he does not understand, all for fun?


The ritual does not terrorize and the oaths are apparently not taken seriously seeing as there are many former masons who have printed it, put it on the internet and made it available on video tape. Those ex-masons are still out there kicking.

Achilles had but one weaknesses, his heel. You have two very apparent weaknesses, logical thinking and intelligence.


[edit on 11-2-2005 by Helios Barca]



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Not that I follow the Bible as some sort of you know, Holy Doctrine, but it says "But I say unto you, swear not at all, not by heaven, nor by earth..."


So, tonight your ignorance is concentrating on the Masonic oath, huh akilles?
You seem to be referencing it in most of your posts tonight. I guess you've been slapped down over every other insinuation you've made, so it will be a pleasure to put you straight on this one too.

Let us start with the definition of an oath shall we?

Oath:
A solemn, formal declaration or promise to fulfill a pledge, often calling on God, a god, or a sacred object as witness.
The words or formula of such a declaration or promise.
Something declared or promised.

Is there anything sinister about a promise? Well, with your admittedly very sketchy knowlege of the Bible you have managed to copy and paste the above Biblical passage. But how about referencing the whole verse and the context that it was put in, instead of being an ignorant coward and editing it? I think that you'll find, if you bother to study, that James was trying to say "Don't make an oath unless you mean it, otherwise you will be breaking the 3rd Commandment." What he is prohibiting is the making of a false vow - not a vow in itself.
Of course if you had bothered to read the Bible you would have found that it contains literally hundreds of oaths made to God, family and man - hardly a condemnation of making promises when it gives so many examples. But I guess researching your material has never been a strong point for you has it? Heck, you could have even used the ATS search function and brought up the list, as somebody has posted every one of those Biblical oaths here in the past.

Anyway. Let's get back to the oath itself, now that it's shown that making a promise isn't as evil as you make it out to be.
If it's not evil, is it unusual to make a promise? Well not really. As has already been pointed out to you, there are many times when a person is required to make an oath. Ever joined the Boy Scouts? Made the Pledge of Allegiance? Given testimony in a courtroom? By your logic, a Boy Scout who has been the victim of a crime and is giving evidence in court, is evil. In fact doubly so.
Somehow I don't think that is the case. Do you?
So it's not unusual to make an oath and it's not evil to make an oath if you mean to keep it. I guess yet another one of your arguments is well and truly blown out of the water huh?

Oh wait. Maybe it's weak to make an oath? Yes, you seem to have insinuated that elsewhere as well. Hmmm. But take a look at the above - "It's nor evil to make an oath if you mean to keep it". Keeping a promise is never easy is it? A person has to be strong. He has to remember his oath and the reasons why he made it. That takes character. I think you'll find that is the opposite of weakness.

Guess what? You're wrong yet again.

Now if you would like to argue with any of the above - feel free (just try to stay on topic this time though).



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Come on, I thought we were sticking to the theory that I was kicked out of Masonry for drunk driving, or having improper thoughts about my Brothers or something.


I would never believe that you ever were a mason.



Do you go on your knees for any man?

I don't.


Neither do I. But I do get on my knees for God.



Have you ever been blindfolded symbolically?

I haven't.


What would be wrong with this?



And so is the oath not taken seriously? Is this what I am to believe, is the trouble of having each Mason memorize his oaths, and terrifying him with ritual he does not understand, all for fun?


WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!? The oath is symbolic, nothing more. When you are receiving your degrees, you are taking part in a play, and reciting lines that are assigned to the character you are playing, even when you are the initiate. Any oaths made or anything said is purely symbolic, so that we may learn a lesson from it.

Seriously bro, you're being truly ignorant.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 05:56 PM
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Guys, agree among yourselves.

Are the oaths merely symbolic, and you are all guilty of blasphemy?

Or all the oaths taken to the heart?

Because if they are taken to heart, then they break another slew of commandments, such as "Thou shalt not kill (including yourself)", and so Freemasons have themselves laid bare the hypocrisy of their order.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 06:04 PM
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Got my initiation for my first degree March 26th. Nervous. But cant wait. Steept in history. Cant wait to get into the library. My proposers say its the best temple library in the North of England.

Will let you know.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Guys, agree among yourselves.

Are the oaths merely symbolic, and you are all guilty of blasphemy?

Or all the oaths taken to the heart?

Because if they are taken to heart, then they break another slew of commandments, such as "Thou shalt not kill (including yourself)", and so Freemasons have themselves laid bare the hypocrisy of their order.




[edit on 2/11/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Guys, agree among yourselves.

Are the oaths merely symbolic, and you are all guilty of blasphemy?

Or all the oaths taken to the heart?

Because if they are taken to heart, then they break another slew of commandments, such as "Thou shalt not kill (including yourself)", and so Freemasons have themselves laid bare the hypocrisy of their order.


And there you go again, mis-quoting the Bible. Its "Thou shalt not murder"

Important distinction there.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Helios Barca

And there you go again, mis-quoting the Bible. Its "Thou shalt not murder"

Important distinction there.


*applause*

You are sooooooo right. God does NOT contradict Himself, and for Him to tell His children they are forbidden to kill in one breath and then say:

Deuteronomy 7:1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations-the Hittites, Girga#es, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you- 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Well that just wouldn't make much sense now, would it?



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 06:32 PM
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(in relation to the above) So you can kill yourself? And you can agree to having yourself murdered, cuz then its not murder in some twisted sense?

And the Freemasons didn't give two opposing answers to my question?

Maybe we should just call you Assman, because you have obviously since day 1 decided to ignore and deride me every chance you get. You say you have never put someone on ignore, that doesn't mean you don't ignore every single word the person says.

The point is that you can't make an oath to God while breaking his commandments in the oath you are making. So I am just saying, in that way it is incompatible with Christianity.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
(in relation to the above) So you can kill yourself?



In your case, I guess the answer would be a resounding "yes".



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