One in Eight U.S. Biology Teachers Teaches Creationism

reply to post by pexx421


Heh, I am not saying that the theory of evolution is guilty of the crimes of Nazism or Communism. How could I say that... I was talking about the Social Darwinism pseudo-science which had sneaked into a lot of political and so-called scientific circles and that was one of the major cornerstones in the Nazi and the Communist theories and practices. In my view this pseudo-science made it's way precisely because the science community accepted blindly the inconsistent parts of the theory of evolution. If that was not the case the Social Darwinism would not probably exist and there would be no such things as Nazism and Communism in this world. What I was trying to convey is that we should look at history, examine it and try to find where the mistakes were made, so that we leave a peaceful world for the future generations. That is the idea. If that will make you happier, the dog-eat-dog economic capitalism that is practiced today has also roots in the Social Darwinism. Well, probably that would not exist either.

I don't understand what some find so offensive with teaching creationism? It is possible. I'm not downing Darwinism either, its possible as well. You don't have to be a religious person to believe in intelligent design. I wish I had the faith some Christians I know do, but I just don't. But I still believe that intelligent design is very possible and as a THEORY should be entertained in the classroom. Just as Darwinism is. We don't need closed minded discussions in our classrooms we need to keep it open, encourage critical thinking and discussion. In college there were no professors, and I mean none, that would even discuss the possibility of intelligent design. Some ridiculed those who believed in it, though in minor ways, nothing really malicious.

honestly, what would you be teaching? With darwinism there is a thoery of origin, there are teachings on progress, development, mutation, etc. Genetic mixing and so on.
"teaching" creationism? "god snapped his fingers, there ya go" end of lesson. Why do we believe darwinism is true? well because we have observed the obvious and repeatable effects of evolution, mutation, and adaptation, evident in the world all around us.
"Why do we believe in creationism?" "....well jimmy....someone told us a story one time...and ..welllll...it sounded nice!"

reply to post by pexx421


Why do you not believe in Creationism is the real question. Because if Creationism is true then God must exist. If God exists then the Bible is his word. If the Bible is in fact his word then the sinful lifestyles you lead are in fact sinful and there will be consequences. That is why people try so hard today to disprove the Bible or believe that God doesn't exist. It's a whole rule and responsibility thing. Has anyone noticed here lately that there have been more and more school violence and attacks on family members by children? People in authority are being attacked just like God is every day. HHHMMM if there are no parents or people of authority then there are no rules. Evolution is a copout for Godless heathans. It is an unproven theory just as Creationism. Evolution puts no authority anywhere except on the higher ups on the food chain, that man just assumed an authoritative role when we developed weapons. Creationism says God gave us authority over the planet. He put it's care in our hands and we are doing a pissy job.

ah, i love how often people make assumptions about other peoples motivations, and automatically assign them base lack of virtue because that is what those individuals would have if they didnt have their fanatical belief in some judging deity watching their every move.
One of the four agreements is "dont make assumptions" and i think the reason for this is that 1) making assumptions(which are usually based on fallacy) causes us to believe we know the motivations of another person and to treat them according to what we imagined those motivations to be, thus leading to misunderstandings. now i will practice the 2nd agreement which is "dont take anything personally" because when people act ignorant towards you it is a reflection of them, not of you.
If creationism is true, then perhaps god may exist. but that in no way means that the bible is his(?) word because it could be ANY religions god that caused creation. Assuming for a minute that there is a god...that by no means dictates that some fool couldnt have just made up the bible on his own anyway. After all, as i said there are many many bibles. are they all validated because of creationism? Thats kind of like saying "well if its not black its white"...noooo...it could be green blue or even purple. come back with some better logic friend. The only sin is in not being true to yourself.

IGNORANCE IS BLISS ::::

Sitting on the fence to long ..need to add my 2 cent ...



if you really believe any of the 2 you are lost ...
Dont be a ignorant . look into Drawin and see WHO and WHY his theory finally got the credit it did ...and while your at it have a look who supported finaced and eventuaqlly managed to get this theory and YES its only A THEORY , accepted over time. ..

I dont belive one word the church says but thinking darwin is right is sooooo looney it borders insanity ...

Instead of all your personal opinions which indeed are funny and entertaining you should try to stay objective and 1st and foremost forget what you have been spoon feed at school ...whichever theory they taught you .
Looking back at history, look at the time past then tell me that we (the dumb human race ) only took a few thoudsands of years from marveling at a wheel to the silicone age .. HELLOOOOOOO WAKEY WAKEY not think this is wired when today we see how long it takes for people to grasp certain technologies and concepts ..

We d be still sitting in caves would we not have had help that is obvious to me just as a child will never read if not helped and taught ! its not gonna happen if the child is left alone ...if not helped I doubt a child would be reading by the time we ´normaly´read 5 , 6, 7 years ??
Thinking we did this all alone on this little time is just as looney as thinking the female species got cut out of the rib of adam




All typos are done with full intent for the sole amusement fo the reader





[edit on 27-5-2008 by memyself_I]

[edit on 27-5-2008 by memyself_I]

Christian Voice
You are certainly entitled to your opinion as am I. Where as I worship a creator, you seem to worship science.

Faith is a belief in an idea that is unsupported, or contradicted, by evidence. Quoted from our friend wikipedia.

Evolutionists seem to put FAITH in science. That seems to be a contradiction in terms. Science deals with the search for proof and faith believes without proof.
No man has ever been able to prove or disprove the Bible. I choose to have faith in that Bible and to believe that we have a purpose here. Evolution insinuates we are an accident with no purpose and that when we pass on we cease to exist at all. Where is the logic in that ? Why would we exist with no purpose or intention? Evolution says I'm an accident and I refuse to believe I'm an accident.

Many creationists have contended that while they worship 'the one true god', those who believe in evolution worship 'gods' named Science, Reason, Logic, etc. We do not worship science. Science is not only secular and godless but has also been responsible for overturning many of the myths, doctrines, and beliefs which have been fundamental to theistic religions.

Science conflicts with religions not because it is a religion itself, but because religions typically conflict with reality. No one worships science. Evolutionists do not put faith in science. We look at the observable evidence and make our own conclusions. Faith is, as you stated yourself, a belief in an idea that is unsupported, or contradicted, by evidence. Evolution does not fit any of these requirements. Evolution is strengthened by evidence, supported by it, and is not contradicted but in line with evidence. Many people have been able to disprove the bible by using the bible itself. I dare you to research it’s contradictions.

Evolution doesn not state we are an accident. You do. Is you cannot find a purpose for yourself in life, that is a personal problem, not because of evolution. We create our own purpose. Why do we have to have a purpose to exist. It is not a requirement for life. So what is there is no afterlife? It should only give you more reason to appreciate this life that you have, and not waste it believing that god will fix everything in the end. I’m sorry you refuse to believe you’re an accident because you want to feel special. Wanting to feel special is not the basis you should use to have faith in religions, I’m sorry to tell you.
As Chris Mcgee wisely stated, “Your refusal to believe you were an accident does not take away from the fact that it might be the case.”
(.cont)

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by pexx421

 

Why do you not believe in Creationism is the real question. Because if Creationism is true then God must exist. If God exists then the Bible is his word. If the Bible is in fact his word then the sinful lifestyles you lead are in fact sinful and there will be consequences. That is why people try so hard today to disprove the Bible or believe that God doesn't exist. It's a whole rule and responsibility thing. Has anyone noticed here lately that there have been more and more school violence and attacks on family members by children? People in authority are being attacked just like God is every day. HHHMMM if there are no parents or people of authority then there are no rules. Evolution is a copout for Godless heathans. It is an unproven theory just as Creationism. Evolution puts no authority anywhere except on the higher ups on the food chain, that man just assumed an authoritative role when we developed weapons. Creationism says God gave us authority over the planet. He put it's care in our hands and we are doing a pissy job.

Well firstly, let me say, thank you for the name calling. I shall remember you have called me a godless heathen, when I had not shown you the same disrespect.

Now, I've noticed you've grossly misconstrued the theory of evolution. Which tells me, you really haven't been reading.
(If you want to argue against something, you have to know about it first.)

We have allot of factual evidence in-front of us. We know it is fact, that animals evolve from one species to new species over the course of millions of years by means of small changes. We have proven this many times (albeit, you people clearly don't go to museums.)

The theory isn't in IF it works. The theory is HOW it works.
We KNOW it works, we can even manipulate it... but we don't know what makes it tick.

As for some of your other remarks.
1: If creationism is true, no, that does no label your god as the creator, it leaves the doors open to the possibility that another species designed us. It simply means, we were created.

2: If a god did exist, it does not mean the bible is that god's word. Go and take a look at how many religions there are out there. The chances of one bit of text being the right one, is slim to none... the chances of the Christian bible being the right one, considering it's been changed so many times, is Nil.

3: You claim I attempt to discredit the bible because I'm a sinner.
Actually, if I wanted to avoid punishment... it would be far easier in the bibles rules to simply confess and say sorry. Under your own rules, suddenly they're not really sins anymore.

If there were a god, do you really think an apology would mean anything?
Actions speak louder than words, and let me assure you, if there is a god, there's nothing in my life that can be frowned upon.
I'll bet he'd be really pissed off at you though. Walking into a box, telling someone you screwed up, and ASSUMING he's going to be just fine with it?
You certainly wouldn't be in my good books if I were him.



You won't understand why we Atheists abandon religion until you have come to the same realization, or have in some form, been shown what we know.

But that's fine, religion was created as a way to keep those who can't think for themselves under control. And we'd prefer you stay there.

Christian Voice
Going to church does not make you a Christian. How can you claim Christianity and yet dismiss one of the principle beliefs of Christianity and that is That God Created Everything. Sounds a bit contradictory to me. I agree with you that science class is science class. If evolution is to be tought it should be tought as theory, and not fact. If it is tought as theory then other theories should be presented as well such as Creationism.
Why do you not believe in Creationism is the real question.

I like how you shamelessly commit the "No True Scotsmen" fallacy. Who are you to decide if someone is Christian or not? Do you make up the requirements? Did he not fill out the right application or not pay his dues? Everything about religion is contradictory. It’s contradictory to reality. Evolution is fact. No number of tantrums will change that.
All we’re doing now is filling in the gaps as we come to understand them. I wonder, the bible says to stone homosexuals in the streets, as well as women who were raped. If you don’t do those two things, along with the many other ridiculous requirements, you’re not a True Christian ™ yourself.

Because if Creationism is true then God must exist. If God exists then the Bible is his word. If the Bible is in fact his word then the sinful lifestyles you lead are in fact sinful and there will be consequences.

I agree that if creation is true, than a god must exist. But which god? Do you realize how many gods and myths there are? However, you commit another logical fallacy here; begging the question. You fail to show how any of those three statements are true here.

That is why people try so hard today to disprove the Bible or believe that God doesn't exist. It's a whole rule and responsibility thing. Has anyone noticed here lately that there have been more and more school violence and attacks on family members by children? People in authority are being attacked just like God is every day. HHHMMM if there are no parents or people of authority then there are no rules. Evolution is a copout for Godless heathans. It is an unproven theory just as Creationism. Evolution puts no authority anywhere except on the higher ups on the food chain, that man just assumed an authoritative role when we developed weapons. Creationism says God gave us authority over the planet. He put it's care in our hands and we are doing a pissy job.

Atheists are not atheists because we want to be able to do what we want without consequence. All throughout life there are consequences to our actions. Atheists have morality too. As stated in this article, “The idea that atheists refuse to believe in a god so that they can save time by not helping others is as insulting as it is absurd. Thus, the argument for rejecting atheism because of the claim that atheists disbelieve in God in order to do whatever they want is both invalid and unsound. It is invalid because the reasoning process is faulty — it commits a logical fallacy, so regardless of the truth of the premises, the conclusion does not follow. It is unsound because the primary premise is simply incorrect. Whenever you see this claim being made, notice the failure of the claimant to provide any evidence supporting their statements.”

Your ignorance and accusations on us ‘Godless heathens’ are very insulting and unsupported. Only religions have moral absolutes. Ironically, your own ‘infallible’ bible can not seem to agree on its own moral absolutes. Thou shalt not kill, unless it is a ‘godless heathen’ or ‘teh ebil gays’?

I agree we are taking poor care of our planet. However, it’s the creationists who do nothing about it stemming from the belief that ‘god will just fix it all’, or 'the rapture is nigh, so who cares’.

Originally posted by Shortness
Science, in vain, has continuously tried to substantiate the theory of Evolution and the big bang theory.

Why are they still called theories and not laws? Because they have yet to be proven, only conjectured. Yet, we are taught in schools that they are, more or less, proven as fact.

So what makes these assumptions any different then Creationism? one is labeled "secular" and the other religious.

In short, evolution is the athiest answer to creationism. One having rose in popularity about 150ish years ago, whereas the other was believed since the written record.

To try to entail that evolution is scientifically sound is neglecting to mention that it's still a THEORY, and therefore, not scientific at all.

I like to add: With all beliefs, it requires at looking at both sides. You're selling yourself short if you choose to remain ignorant.
[edit on 27-5-2008 by Shortness]

A theory is a big part of the scientific process. I have a sneaking suspicion you don’t know what you’re talking about. Evolution is scientifically sound because they actually go well together. Evolution gets support from science, what we know about the natural world around us. Religion myths are answers to what we did not know and still don’t know that haven’t been explained yet. It’s more of a cop-out to just ignore our world and just say ‘goddidit’. A good question for your last sentences: How many other creation myths would you feel should not be included because they don’t mesh with yours, which is 100% of the time?

Originally posted by vor78

Originally posted by bigbert81
Why do people think it's ok to filter out other's educations to fit their own belief systems in?

I would imagine that creationists would argue that this is exactly what evolutionists do.

As long as evolutionary theory is presented fairly and completely, I don't necessarily have a problem with a discussion of creationism. There's nothing wrong with a little side by side comparison, and if evolution is so obviously correct, there's little reason to be concerned about this again, if both sides are given fair, impartial treatment.

You are proceeding from a cloudy if not outright incorrect premise. That is to say, you conflate evolution and creationism as if they were somehow equivalent theories in the subject of Biology. I would agree that anything that is not 100% certain should always be underwritten as 'our best guess' at what is happening rather than a factual certainty. I think any scientist would agree. While you can make the claim that ID or Creationism is a competing theory, you also have to acknowledge two other facts: one being that it is not even close to being 'our best guess', and number two being that only some fundamentalist Christians see it as being a legitimate guess at all!

[edit on 27-5-2008 by wytworm]

reply to post by Epic Wolf


Who am I to dictate who is and is not a Christian and to dictate the rules for being a Christian? I am a Christian that's who. The basis of the Christian faith is the Bible. In the Bible, Jesus (God, the Son of God) is quoted as saying " I am the way the truth and the life, noone comes to the father but by me" The Bible says to go to Heaven you must accept Jesus and strive to live his example. The Bible never says to go to Church to get to Heaven. That is why I made that comment. Church does not make you a Christian. As a Christian you can't believe in evolution. Jesus says in the new Testament " In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth "
he also said " Before there was time I am " insinuating he always has existed. You don't have to be Christian, or believe in Creationism. It's your choice. I'm just stating you can't be a Christian and believe in evolution, same as you can't be Christian and a practicing homosexual at the same time.

Also the Bible did not command that I stone anyone to death. The Old Testament said that homosexuality was an abomination and the homosexuals should be stoned. It didn't say for me to go out and find a homosexual and kill him. The New Testament says that homosexuality is wrong as well but thanks to Jesus homosexuals no longer have to be condemned for their sin. They can stop the sin and repent and accept Jesus. They no longer have to be put to death thanks to Jesus.

Back on topic, I'll agree that Creationism would mean that something higher than man created us. Not necessarily God. I choose to believe in God. Even still, other religions and Gods have rules and regulations to follow as well. It just seems to me that evolutionists want there to be nothing higher than man. That way man is the ultimate power and can do whatever he wants with no consequences.

and number two being that only some fundamentalist Christians see it as being a legitimate guess at all!

Gonna have to disagree with you there. It has nothing to do with fundamentalists. A Christian is a follower of Jesus CHRIST. That is where the word comes from. Jesus says in the Bible that God created everything. You can't be a CHRISTian and not believe what CHRIST said.

Originally posted by Epic Wolf
Thou shalt not kill, unless it is a ‘godless heathen’ or ‘teh ebil gays’?

WHAT???
Come on.

I agree we are taking poor care of our planet. However, it’s the creationists who do nothing about it stemming from the belief that ‘god will just fix it all’, or 'the rapture is nigh, so who cares’.

That's why early American revolutionaries sat back on their religion and let everything fall apart???
We aren't really people you can pigeon-hole and insult factually.

reply to post by wytworm


Why do you call yourself wytworm, if you don't mind?

This is not a one-liner.


[edit on 27-5-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by johnsky


'You people don't go to museums?

To see what evidence?
Please be specific,...

Originally posted by Christian Voice

and number two being that only some fundamentalist Christians see it as being a legitimate guess at all!

Gonna have to disagree with you there. It has nothing to do with fundamentalists. A Christian is a follower of Jesus CHRIST. That is where the word comes from. Jesus says in the Bible that God created everything. You can't be a CHRISTian and not believe what CHRIST said.

Again I will proceed from the assumption that the misdirection you are attempting is rooted in hastiness and not intention, and redirect you to the operative word in my post which was fundamentalist. I would suggest however that to operate under a precept that christians by definition give up their right to free will and thought by not questioning Christian precepts is to miss the point of what it is to be Christian. This would be the whimpering of the dog of fundamentalism nipping at the heels of Christianity.

reply to post by Christian Voice


I would suggest to you that what you are describing is a very fundamentalist view of Christianity. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with it as long as you keep it to yourself and stop pretending that you hold the only view on behalf of everyone. That part where you speak as though you get to decide for everyone is the fundamentalist part that is antithetical to what we as human being are supposed to hold dear.

reply to post by Clearskies


I have used it since college as a handle. Based on a film by Ken Russel.

we were created..there is some evolution going on and that's good,but most tings were created

i suggest listening to this..feel it,think it,you will understand it,but you can believe in evolution all you want

www.youtube.com...