One in Eight U.S. Biology Teachers Teaches Creationism

Niether one should be taught in school. School is a place for learning PROVEN FACTS. Until one or the other is proven to be true, then niether one has any place in school. As it stands right now to allow one you must allow the other, as they are both theories at this point.

your talking about mythology vs. exploration here. Science is something that can be advanced, that grows as our understanding grows. If we dont have the answer to something yet its because we are missing valuable pieces of information as yet. Mythology on the other hand, is not "theory" it is more imagination. It doesnt grow or gain more evidence, it relies on stories from the past, stories in fact of a world that doesnt in any way reflect the one we live in. the only place religion grows is in the imagination, and the only yardstick you have to measure it by is "oh, well lots of people agree with me". As i said, this does not belong in a class called "science" which is there to explain functions of natural laws, biology, ecology, etc. The idea of evolution is a stepping stone on the pathway to explain mutation and adaptation, in order to help us understand how we are changing and how to cope with our environment, and ultimately how to achieve equilibrium with our environment and nature. Religion and the idea of creationism would in no way aid this endeavor, and would rather imply that its just gods will so we may as well not try to understand, and not try to advance scientifically.

Then on the 7th day there was light. When you die there will be 100 virgins waiting for you in heaven. Don't do this or you won't get into heaven.

Sorry if I offend anyone but I am just going to say it how I see it.

Religion is a means of control. Has been for a long time. Human beings are the first species (that we know of) to question our existence. Questions (however difficult they maybe) will always attract attempted answers.

Sun god, moon god, war god, water god, 8 armed god, gods son born of a virgin who can walk on water and turn water to wine.

It's human nature to try and explain the unexplainable. It is also human nature to go with the flow and accept someone else's story for lack of a better option.

The priests or whoever made these stories up no doubt loved the attention and elevated status. Everyone else is out in the field working while they sit in their temple with their golden wands and try to keep their god happy. If any untoward questions arise, just scare the people with another made up story of how god will smite them if they do not obey.

IMO this is how it started and to some degree how it remains today.
I know there are many valuable lessons in the bible "do unto others" "thou shall not steal." This is not the word of god, this is the word of a small group of people who want a functioning society so they can reap the benefits and maintain control.

I can understand nations who are far less technologically advanced believing in these fairy tales, but it completely astounds me how many people living in England, Australia, USA etc, still believe this nonsense.

Creationism should not be taught in biology. It should not be taught period.

Religion is doing and has done nothing but divide and dumb down the people of this beautiful planet.

IT'S EVOLUTION BABY!!!

Yes I know there are still unknowns but it is far and away the more logical 'theory.'

at any rate, most things taught in school are theories. Math is the theory of numerical descriptions of reality, and math changes and grows. English is the theory of one form of communication, and the language also changes and grows. math theory is taught in math class, english theory is taught in english class, science theory should be taught in science class, and religious theory should be taught in theology class. But as i accept it as a "theory" that science describes nature accurately, im pretty sure most people dont accept their religion as a "theory" that their god exists. Therein perhaps lies the difference between faith and understanding! scientists dont hold irrationally to their theories, knowing that the info can change they are readily able to change their belief structure to account for new formulae or theorems. Religious folk however, are generally completely averse to allowing new logic and understanding to change the views of "god" as it is imprinted upon them as little children, and generally react violently to anyone questioning their "theory" of reality. All this despite the fact that its been a while since ive seen any talking burning bushes, parting of waters, or multiplied loaves and fishes. (though i see a lot of multiplying BS here lately)

reply to post by pexx421


I do understand the point that you are making, however i still believe that niether one has it's place in school, YET.

Creationism has not been proven to be true, although there is a possibility that it may one day be proven.

The theory of evolution has not been proven true, although there is a possibility that it may one day be proven.

There are endless possibilities in this world. And while it's true what you say evolution may be the stepping stone, it can not be a stepping stone to understanding anything until it is a proven fact.

A science class should deal with proven facts, not one mans unproven idea.

i would have to disagree. Creationism cannot be proven for the simple facts that 1 no research is being done on it, and 2 it is unmeasurable. Science class, on the other hand, is all about teaching students how to look for answers. Saying that darwinism is false and shouldnt be taught is like saying that history is false and shouldnt be taught. there is much truth to history, and there is much fallacy, but by teaching what we can of it, it sets the stage for us to research more of the past with a better idea of what happened. Same for science...there is obviously much truth to what darwin wrote....anyone who says otherwise is foolish. Without darwinism we would never have come to have our sciences of genetics, DNA testing for paternity, genetic modification, understanding of genetic diseases and susceptibilities, and many things we are currently researching in cancer treatment and HIV therapies.
His ideas that species change and adapt over time is proven time and again in nature all around us as old species die off and new ones come forth. This is not controversial anywhere but the united states. It is often funny to me that friends of mine constantly speak in fear of fundamentalist religions from the middle east while in the meantime our country has more fundamentalists than any other in the world...and indeed we committ more murder and terrorism than any other country in the world also.

Originally posted by bigbert81
At the very least, the students should get a full, all around education instead of a biased one.

Agreed. Children shouldn't have one theory or another PUSHED on them, but they should have the opportunity and the resources available to help them make their own decisions.

I went to a Catholic High School, in Science we leared the theory of evolution, and in Religion Studies we learned the Creation Story.

Both topics should be touched upon in school, as to not brainwash or provide a biased ciriculum. Instead to, provide the opportunity for children, tomorrows leaders, to think for themselves.

reply to post by pexx421

I don't believe that i said that Darwin's theory of evolution was false. What i said was that it was not a proven fact. Being that it is has yet to be proven it should not be taught. There is speculation to back it up, but no proof. Creationism may not be able to be scientifically proven, but there is one way that it could be proven whether people choose to believe it or not. As i said the world is full of endless possibilities.


My opinion is just that, my opinion, you can't change it just as i can't change yours. I bring no religious arguements into this, i just don't want my grandchildren being taught that they evolved from apes until somebody can prove it as a fact. If and when that day comes, then teach away !


I agree with you that creationism should not be taught in public schools, however we disagree on the evolution THEORY. So we will just have to continue to disagree.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by pexx421]

[edit on 27-5-2008 by pexx421]

come now caorot....religion is all about brainwashing. Thats what it IS. Spirituality is one thing, but all large organized religions are diametrically opposed to doubt, question, and enlightenment. They are systems of control. My grandmother was an old school catholic, and one day as i was asking her what she thought about a particular bit of scripture she said she didnt have to think about it, because the priests told her what to think about it. Anything that you have to teach people when they are young or vulnerable IS brainwashing. As far as darwinism....i would say that darwinism is not a single thing. Again, its the idea of change and growth through environmental pressures and time. Its possible that we grew from gorrilla's perhaps, its possible that we are descended from extra terrestrials perhaps, but i think both are highly more likely than that god snapped his fingers to create us and then took an active hand in our world for a while before deciding to completely exit himself from any form of evidence or observation in the last 2000 years.
I still fail to understand why people look on apes and the idea we may have descended from them with disgust. They are surely just as noble as humans, they do less damage to the environment, they cause less pain. They experience love and joy just as we do. Indeed, they even have been shown to pass down the ability to read or use tools to their children. They have affection. And after having worked with autistic and dd children for some years, i daresay that chimps can attain a higher level of education and understanding that some humans. Again, its egocentrism to believe that we are somehow "better" or more worthy than some other type of creature. Pride is indeed one of the seven deadly sins.

The crux of the matter in the current educational system is that they still teach the current theory of evolution in a way as if it is a complete and proven one. But it is not proven and furthermore it has big gaps and inconsistencies.

As for the creationism we even more should admit that as a complete scientific theory. It is far from it. Who would want to see their children converted to the religion of the biology teacher. I could be a Christian or Buddhist, but will I be happy to learn that after the biology classes my child believes in a new religion originating from contemporary Russia with a leader former KGB high-ranking officer? Huh. Just a joke.

As I said in my earlier post the Social Darwinism is one of the core principles of the Nazi and the Communist ideologies. Could hundreds of millions of people be saved if that theory was not so blindly adopted and the pseudo-science of Social Darwinism was not derived from it. I would say yes. We have to be responsible to what we teach our children, as the inconsistent parts of the theories could be used by people with ulterior motives. This is a big lesson from history, that a few people dare admit. The body count of Communism in peaceful times is estimated by the researchers to 150 millions and this number is still growing.

if by body count you mean avoidable fatalities caused by communism, dont be silly! Our capitalist system is responsible for WAY more deaths than any other force in history. Indeed, i believe the american empire has killed more people in wars than any country before, our corporate drive for profit has caused more deaths of poor laborers and more pollution than any force in history, and our expansionism and goals of domination have held back the third world from advancing, and kept all populist socialist uprisings from making any headway against our pet dictators. And all this is run by the most fundamentalist christian nation in the world. It was hardly darwin who created Egocentrism and Ethnocentrism, indeed, i believe that mainstream religious groups engage in much more egocentrism than spiritual groups such as buddhists, hindus, or shamanistic cultures. Going to that, we could say that without monotheism we never would have had crusades, witch hunts, etc. I would have to say....and i think everyone would agree....that religion is responsible for WAY more murders than darwinism is. There are many FACTS contained in darwins books, as such they can be taught in school. It was clear to me when i was a child that the idea we evolved from chimps was a THEORY but we should throw all darwin out because that single facet of his research has yet to be proven. Indeed, as i look back im thinking i dont want to state that we are evolved from apes, because i dont want to insult apes in that way! You dont see them killing each other in the name of god.

further more, it wasnt darwinism that led to the slaughter of the jews, it was hitler and germany's need for money. The whole "aryan race" thing was just an excuse for them to murder the jews and steal their money, it is in such ways that governments get people to do things. Just as over here we say "freedom" and "democracy" and use such terms to get our young stupid children to go fight and die for rich mens greed in the middle east. or we say "communism" and get our young stupid children to go die in vietnam for america's growing hegemony, or we say "support the troops" and use that as an excuse to transfer 500 billion tax dollars from the american public to rich contractors, or we say "stabilize our economy" and use that to transfer 200 billion tax dollars to rich banking companys collapsing under their bad business practices

Originally posted by chise61
Niether one should be taught in school. School is a place for learning PROVEN FACTS. Until one or the other is proven to be true, then niether one has any place in school. As it stands right now to allow one you must allow the other, as they are both theories at this point.

This shows a common and complete misunderstanding in creation circles. The facts of evolution are proven, the theory is merely a framework to slot facts into.

Take a look at atomic theory, you don't find anyone arguing about that as it's a very well researched and documented theory. However the name of course teaching atomic theory will never be changed to atomic fact. Theories are simply frameworks into which we place facts, when a more correct or accurate fact comes along, we take out the old one and slot the shiny new one in it's place.

We then stand back, looking at our lovely theory and decide that it's simply not good enough, never will be and must be tested again. We keep testing and testing and it goes on until the end of time. No theory will ever be abandoned and untested, hell even newtons theories are still rexamined!

We have plenty of evolution facts, we have plenty of transitional fossils however creationists even misunderstand these fossils! Creationists are looking for a fish/reptile cross showing very big and clear signs of both species. They even mock up drawing trying to show evolution as nuts, these photos and drawings show utter ignorance of evolution

Evlution is a slow process, you don't find a fish that suddenly sprouts lungs! What you find are very slow adaptations, a smal bone here, a shorter fin there. Slowly crafting itself into a new species depending on the enviromental factors. You won't find these sudden shifts that creationists insist evolutionists believe in.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

What I'd like to know is when did Creationism become a science?
I wasn't offered that Major when I enrolled in Uni.

Why the hell is it considered a scientific field of study, it's pure spiritual pseudo-science, there is no proof or evidence for it other than a compilation of ramblings written 2,000 years ago by a man whom nobody can prove actually existed.

As I recall the scientific method requires reproducible results and verifiable evidence to become a widely accepted theory; so remind me, when has God produced more men and women from mud?
And how come we haven't found the "Garden of Eden" where all this miraculous creationism took place?

We have found however archaeological evidence; such as bones, skulls and DNA from around 5 million years ago that offer proof of an ancient Human ancestor that is genetically linked to us whom likely descended from a prototypical primate ancestor.
We can also document how every species, even humans are still evolving to this day, through observation.

Creationism should not be "banned" so to speak, but why is it taught AS SCIENCE? It's NOT scientific in the least, it requires people to suspend their disbelief and accept some kind of fantastical, magical materialisation theory that can only be explained with unscientific reasoning.

I had a Christian physics & human biology teacher in high school and he had no problem explaining to kids the scientific hypothesises regarding human evolution while maintaining his own beliefs.

[edit on 27/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

how do creationists explain MRSA ?

its gods punishment upon the sick and elderly, those with compromised immune systems, or those spending too much time in hospitals.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


They don't, they throw out MRSA as not being evidence of evolution. Many creationists accept micro evolution but not macro evolution. Bacteriological evolution so is very clear it's incredible and yet they dismiss this evidence as not being applicable to the rest of the evolutionary tree.

oh, yeah, and its largely restricted to americans due to our taking god out of church, our acceptance of homosexuals living their own lives, and our choices of having sex before marriage, living enjoyable fullfiling lives, and seeking enlightenment in reading many books on many subjects rather than just one book about "Him"