Why are Atheists...Atheists?

Originally posted by paul76
I choose to follow my own path. I choose to judge every human equally, something which religion deprives one off. I choose to make my own mistakes and to learn of those same mistakes. I choose to find my own god. I choose to lead my own life, and not to be dictated to by somebody whom I've never met.

Well said. Thats similar to how I feel and think. I disagree on your statement 'making my own mistakes' as I dont see it like that. You never set out to make mistakes, you just learn and move on whatever it is.

reply to post by bigbert81

It was more of an advertising effort for you.

Ok, thanks! I just didn't know if I was understanding you correctly.

reply to post by leearco

You never set out to make mistakes, you just learn and move on whatever it is.

Oh, I have!!!

I have deliberately done things that I knew were wrong and were a mistake, but it was a choice that I made. I don't believe in being a victim, just a volunteer.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

There's plenty of wisdom in most of them, but it's easy enough to live a good, honest, worthy life without a religion and without a belief in God or Gods.

I have done amazingly well without religion. But in my case I will give God at least a little of the credit, lol!

There is nothing that beats a communication from God through a person that does not know you, and you never heard of them, but they come up to you with a message regarding an answer that you are pleading for, and they tell you Gods message. They also are not ignorant of the commission, for it was not a happenstance.

Compound that with innumerable so-called happenstances, and you are looking beyond coincidence.

Doubt is soon abolished by evidence of reality.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by MatrixProphet]

reply to post by LockwithnoKey

And yes, I repeat. I would kill an animal if it tried to kill another wrongly.

You're still avoiding the question by throwing in the word 'wrongly'.

If I told you to kill a dog, or a deer, or a bear to save someone's life, even if that animal was not the threat, would you? I believe your answer will be yes, therefore you do understand why people are a higher priority to animals.

I really don't understand the excessive value placed on human life. It is thought that we are above all else,

All life is sacred, but saying that people should suffer instead of animals tells me that you are far too exposed to the dark side of humanity.

And look at your own life when you think about this. Do you have a pet? Would you rather your pet or your loved one die? Once again, this answer will bring you to my above point. Think about why you answered the answer you did, and you will have my point.

[edit on 5/23/2008 by bigbert81]

I started on the religious path more or less on my own. Neither of my parents went to church, nor did we do any praying. My mom did teach me the child's prayer "Now I lay me down to sleep....etc" I was 8 years old. I got to thinking about dying and this God thing. I went to Sunday school one time when I was 9 and in the written material they gave me was the Lord's prayer. I laid awake that nite memorizing it.
I was about 13 when there was a new church in the neighborhood that was giving away Bibles. I had to have one, so I went to church. I did this on and off for a while. Then the winter that I was 18 they had those mysterious "Instruction classes" that I readily attended hoping that I would at last learn all about the mystery of God.

No such luck. The classs ended and Confirmation day came and went and I was no wiser. Big let down.
When I was 24 I came upon the literature of the Rosicrucians and I joined them. I was with them for 5 years. The biggest lesson I learned here was "Question Everything!". Which I did.

Ultimately I questioned the existence of God. I questioned the reason there needed to be one. I began to see the bible writings as meaningless and unconnected to the religion that was supposed to use it for a foundation. I did not see a loving overlord. I saw a pathological killer.
I came to see all the churches teachings as a big lie, more serious than the Santa Claus joke people play on their children. I became resentful that they had put one over on me for a time.

I see that the big religious organization are very rich. They all have stock in the big corporations. They are "in bed" with governments. They used to and probably still do control governments. They are control organs.
They keep people fearful of the unknown, all the while offering a solution, but only after death.

As to an afterlife ... I don't need a god for that either. Everthing is frequency and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, just recycled. I do believe in reincarnation. I believe in "ghosts". I do believe that there are worlds within worlds. As an example, you know that if your computer is on DSL that you can look at your computer and use the telephone at the same time, because the signal for each is a different frequency. They both come thru that little thin wire.

I see a lot of people are saying that they are spiritual.
Do any of you have a definition of "spiritual"?
I used to say that, but then one day I realized that I didn't know what that meant; it just sounded meaningful.

And BTW I am a happy atheist. I created a decent life for myself.

I am a self proclaimed atheist, I have come to my conclusions by way self analogies and consequences of action and fault. There is no "God" because "God" didn't allow me too do anything, I did it on my own accord and with some bad judgement calls, I have paid for it by either learning the easy or the hard ways.
The bible to me is the best selling novel in history, not knocking the believers, but it is the way it is.
Without religion in my life, "I" stand accountable for either learning from the mistake or taking one step farther to causing myself more despair and self harm.

Early modern thinkers distinguished between theoretical or speculative atheism and practical atheism. The theoretical atheist was someone who claimed to believe that there was no God, but for whom this belief had no real pragmatic consequences. It was a philosophical position, not a moral, social, or devotional one, and it had little effect on his behavior. The practical atheist, on the other hand, was someone who, while probably not really denying "in his heart" the existence of God, nevertheless led a dissolute and immoral life and engaged in the overt mockery of religion. While there were undeniably many such libertines in early modern Europe, there was great debate at the time over whether there were, in fact, any sincere theoretical atheists. The idea of a providential God, some asserted, is innate in the human mind. René Descartes (1596–1650) argued as much in his Meditationes de Prima Philosophia (1641; Meditations on first philosophy). Although the concept of God may become obscured by the more vivid and compelling material from the senses, ultimately—in dire circumstances or as the end of life approached—all professed atheists were said to acknowledge God.

www.answers.com...&r=67

The above quote is something you would never find me doing, I have no need for thing's that don't exist and therefore, have no desire to waist my time thinking that there will be anything else short of my own ramifications. There have been very, very many different categories of the "Atheists" and what things they do and don't believe, which leaves people like me, absolute denial of anything remotely linking the human soul or it's counter parts into a place called "Heaven". The redemption that most religious people speak of comes from only one place, "With in themselves." And if you think that statement is incorrect, then why go to something that can only be signified by pure speculation of the truths of our realities? "We have to forgive ourselves before we become smarter or wiser to the experiences in life, if we allow ourselves to keep faltering, the reality changes and there is nothing left but self accountability."
I have read the posts in this thread, and I usually try to stay away from threads like this, but with the advent of the way that some are referring to them selves as "Atheists" , I would be more to lean towards that they are "Agnostics" and hold on to that part of some kind of forgiveness when it is all said and done. What one should really be doing is allowing there inner self to be able to diagnose and in an assertive way to distinguish between right and wrong before the act and creating an altered realities from what couldve been and what is.
So, "Atheism" to me is a clear conscience way of being held responsible and accountable for my own actions throughout my life with no safe haven to run to too allow myself just to feel better about who I am or what I have done.

I have noticed many of the more vocal atheists get angry when confronted with evidence for God. It is not the sort of intense emotion that would be characteristic from a threat of "nothing" on their philosophy. C.S.Lewis said it best in that "Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist." Remember C.S. Lewis himself started out as an atheist. So I tend to agree with your first point Matrix, it best fits the pathology for the atheist disorder, "Atheist through traumatic events". The perceived injustice of the world creates that anger.

A psychologist author John Koster wrote a book called The Atheist Syndrome in which he discovered that strong atheists fit a particular psychological profile.

The Atheist Syndrome


My impression of many atheists is that they seem to think it is a slam-dunk case for atheism; that it is very clear that Christianity lacks any good evidence. They also seem to operate under the delusion that belief in God s clearly untrue because of alleged counter-proofs. If it so clear as they allege, and further, if atheism is true, then there must be an awful lot of Christians and other theists who are resisting this "obvious" truth. I think, as you might expect, that the theistic proofs are compelling and the atheist ones implausible and fallacious.

This should sum it up, better than I can. only 80 seconds, straight to the point

www.youtube.com...


George...man, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Personally I believe in Karma, that's about as close to religion as I'll come. I also believe in re-incarnation(not the typical kind, I have my own theories on it, but that's for another thread).

I'm a more of a ...for everything negative that happens in the universe, the EXACT amount of positive happens. Whether it be in life, science, physics, whatever. Perfect balance. I call it "the force". Not like in star wars, but sort of.

**Sorry for all the edits was trying to get the you tube video embedded in the post. One day I'll have my victory you-tube, One day, I shall get it!!!***





[edit on 23-5-2008 by Nola213]

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[edit on 23-5-2008 by Nola213]

[edit on 23-5-2008 by Nola213]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


For the most part bigwhammy, I did take your statement slightly offensive. You of all people know that any psychologist doesn't do anything more than speculate the truths of what is happening and why.
I am no brain surgeon, but I am intelligent enough to go through my life with my own decisions and speculations of what is reality and what is not for me.
I once heard that 95% of the world is religious in one form or another, believing in something "Higher" than themselves. I for one find that odd for the matter being, "With all those believer's, including even our president, there should be such violence and corruption with the acknowledgements of "God" or a creator?"
The world is not my enemy at all, but I can be my worst enemy if I allow it to happen. I am in a very comfortable place with my inability of having religion in my life, there is nothing more simpler than being able to say "It was my fault and I will learn from this mistake, trying not to repeat it again for the rest of my life." opposed to , "Oh God , why me , why did you allow this to happen to little ole me.....Blah,Blah,Blah."
Believe what you want to believe in, I could care less, but when it comes to a stemming of some psych trying to make a logical conclusive guess at the expense of people like myself, "Back-Off" cause it is not the case for a true "Atheist" like myself.

To be honest, I find it hard to believe in a God that wants to be praised all the time. That's just me though.

I don't know why atheists are athiests. I know why I became one. I was raised in a "Christian" family. We went to church 4 times a week. And we were all subjected to many beatings and being told terrible things about ourselves. Kind words were few and far between. I remember when I was three and we were at a "revival meeting". It was a long service. I was unable to sit still. My mom took me to the back of the church and proceeded to smack my face from side to side. I began crying and she continued to smack me on the mouth telling me to stop crying. Finally I did stop crying when I could no longer breath. Then she dragged me back to the pew and slammed me down on it and apologized to those around us for me having the devil in me. I remember while I was being smitten the words to the song I sang each Sunday in school.....Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world, etc. And I reached out to Jesus for his love and found it wasn't there. And I couldn't understand all those Christians sitting there watching me being tortured and doing nothing about it. But one day about 6 years ago while I was in my studio painting a picture one afternoon that there was suddenly a bright light in the corner of my room. I looked up and saw a young man of average height standing in the corner. He was white and had shoulder length blond hair. I was aghast. I quickly walked backward from this vision until I ran into the wall behind me. His eyes followed me even though his head did not move. I closed my eyes in disbelief and when I opened them he was gone but his energy was still in the corner. I walked to the corner and put my hand where his shoulder had been. Suddenly I was seeing a flow of colors coming from where his eyes had been. Oh, the emotions I felt from those colors! I suddenly realized he was a messenger who was giving me the emotions God feels. And he feels everything at once. The force of this young man remained in the corner for three weeks. Each time I approached the corner the colors began. And eventually I was seeing visions of the universe and seeing myself in it. And I was forever flowing through it. Since then, after the visions stopped, whenever I walk towards my canvases images appear, moving as on a reel of film above my easel. I sometimes just stare in wonder and amusement. Sometimes I can will the images to stop and capture them on canvas. I can now turn it off and on, depending on what I plan to paint or what I want to see what God wants me to paint. I know that after this life on earth is finished there is another and another life for me whether it might be a spirtual life or another physical life. And that is why I am no longer an atheist. Thanks for reading. I realize my reality might not be the same as yours and I am certainly not trying to convince anyone there is a god. But I know there is one for me.

I don't know if i am an atheist or not, because i believe 'something' created us, but i don't believe in God.

I, albeit loosely, subscribe to the Von Daniken 'hypothesis that many ancient civilizations' technologies and religion were given to them by space travelers who were welcomed as gods'.
Chariots of the Gods?

In saying that, that belief has no effect on my day-to-day living.

I go out of my way to live a good, moral life. I don't judge people by anything but they way they treat me, and i treat everyone i meet with respect and friendship.

I personally believe I live a far more 'Christ-like' life than most of the so-called Christians. However, i do not believe there is such thing as 'living like Christ'. It is simply being a good person.

*Prepares the fire blanket for the flame attacks to follow*

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

I know on ones that plain and simply don't want to rock the boat, which to me lacks conviction. Be an atheist, or one who questions, or take a stand for God. Just take a stand for something!!

The first thing that struck me reading this was a saying, and I am paraphrasing I dont remember it precisely;

"Knowing is the end of learning."

I do think that there are times when it is important to decide, and make a choice. I dont know if spirituality is a place where decisiveness is the best strategy. After all, in science, we know nothing. We have working theories until we find out newer, better ones. Think of all the things science has "known" that have turned out to be wrong. The best scientists keep looking. They never are so certain about a thing that they shut the doors of their mind.

In many religions there are people who are very certain they know what God is and what God wants. And they tend to violate the fundamental law of most religions, "love." They are so sure they are right, they hate those they think are "wrong" instead. Their minds are closed to the possibility that they may be wrong, or that there are more ways to worship than just theirs, the possibility that God has many names, and loves all of us. When the mind closes, the heart follows suit, and when our hearts are closed, we cannot hear the Divine at all.

So I am not sure that "not being sure" is such a bad thing. The Oracle at Delphi said that Socrates was the wisest man of his time. On hearing this he decided to find out how that could be. After much questioning of the wisest men in Athens, he came to the conclusion that the only thing he knew that other men did not, was that he did not know anything. He decided that if he was the wisest, it was because he alone knew that he knew nothing. Everyone else was deluded into thinking they knew, when in fact, they did not. It was a slight edge, but an edge nonetheless over complete ignorance.

So I really dont know. It does seem like a stand would be nice, to make us more certain of who others are, of who we are. But what in the material world is concrete and fixed? Even the mightiest mountain is in motion on the molecular level. And on the more mundane level it is being eroded, by wind, by water, blown apart by eruptions, plowed into the earths crust by tectonics. Nothing at all is fixed and certain in our world. Maybe certainty is inharmonious with God, or the Divine. Maybe more of us should be on the fence, if not in the belief that there IS a Divine, but at least in regard to the belief that we could possibly know what that means.

I would hate to be the atheist who finds himself standing before those pearly gates.

I use pearly gates loosely here since I'm not a Christian, still, it's a funny scenario.

I think everyones spiritual path is their own, and yes, choosing to be an atheist is choosing a spiritual path.

I leave their destiny to God and all I ask is the same from them.

We all must make our own way in the spiritual paths we choose. No two are alike.

reply to post by kyred


Sounds to me if you were experiencing an Ethereal situation. Which only grounds it as a form of being intangible for the experience to be explained for understanding. I do however believe in the "Paranormal" persuasions of experiences. If , for some reason, you had such a traumatic up bringing and subsequently horrid childhood memory, maybe it is what you needed to see to be able to turn canvases into your premonitions of the corner you spoke of.
It is your experience, no one can take it from you, but there may be more answers to the event than you have speculated on for all the possible reasons of the experience.
There are as many answers that lend question, but I do thank you for being open minded enough to have shared.

reply to post by OhZone

I see a lot of people are saying that they are spiritual.
Do any of you have a definition of "spiritual"?
I used to say that, but then one day I realized that I didn't know what that meant; it just sounded meaningful.

Being spiritual means different things to different people. That is the beauty of it. It is hard to define, for good reasons. Religion I found, needs to pigeon hole concepts and teachings. That is why I can say that religion on the whole, is not spiritual.

Spiritual has a definitive quality but is elusive in terms. Another words, it is highly abstract. Think of: quantum physics.

I relate in my experience to being spiritual as; a connection to God, or a higher power. Religion is not even in the same sphere because it is too material, too fleshly, and too down to earth - bogged down with rituals, and scripture. A corporal experience vs. a spiritual one.

I define it;

As a conscious contact with God. This involves connecting to a higher entity that is beyond our physical state. The more I connect and tune in to this entity, the more I am influenced by it. A connection that is logical, rather than mystical.

Here is an example of a spiritual clarity or moment: when you have a light bulb that goes off in your mind and you finally "get" something. You wonder why you didn't get it before, but now it is all clear to you. This is a rudimentary example. Apply this principle to a larger scale and you can arrive at being spiritual.

Being spiritual involves the intuition, your senses, a spark and refining of your perceptions. It involves a conditioning by God against an abrasive wall or block that forces us to grow. Meaning; that to be spiritual is to not be stagnant. It needs friction to develop! That friction comes from God.

It is a process that helps us to refine our senses and to understand what it is our senses are trying to tell us. Fight or flight. Who is safe or unsafe? When to leave a situation before a tragedy. Think of those whose senses told them to run to the hills with the Indonesian tsunami.

The day before 9-11 I was in bed all day very upset because I new something really bad was going to happen. My family needless to say was very concerned. The next day I found out why. I am not talking ESP or anything mystical. Just my senses telling me - alerting me as to a future event. Being spiritual means that you learn to listen! Never discount a sense.

On a more abstract level; a certain knowing, or insight, about so many things that may have nothing to do with you, and do not originate with you. You are also very aware of this at the time. Some of the revelations are staggering. Especially when you realize something and it happens later.

Also it involves sensing energy fluctuations and abiding by what you feel would be the right course or answer. It can involve hearing a little voice in your mind, or at times a very loud voice! I have found that the more I grew spiritually - it ceased being quiet - but is more pronounced. At first, one needs to listen quietly for the voice. But that is because we are so unfamiliar with it and not confident with it. And no, it is not MPD'S...LOL!

Have you seen the movie "Contact?" When Jodie Foster was in the space craft and went on her dubious exploration of the galaxy and beyond? She had been an atheist prior, but her views were so very altered on her "field trip." She received a glimpse of something so far beyond her understanding, that she was speechless. In that fictional drama she was put into over-drive by God, to attain new insight that would take her out of her tight box of limited thinking.

Growing spiritually means to be willing to expand beyond ones limited thinking, and to experience life and its meanings in a different context, realizing that 2+2 does not = 4. Also, being willing to fail, to get up and to try again. Beyond that, it is an unexplainable experience! It is easier to watch it take place in someone's life, than it is to define it.

reply to post by kyred


Technically, you are not an Atheist. You believe in a form of the Divine. You have just rejected modern Christianity. (As that term is commonly used) Atheism means that you believe in no divinity at all, either because the thought of a divinity has never crossed your mind, or because you have been presented with that idea and have rejected it as true. Agnostics have some doubt about their (or anyones) ability to know what God would be, or how to believe about God, but they do not reject the idea of a Divinity.

Edit to clarify the third sentence.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

So I really dont know. It does seem like a stand would be nice, to make us more certain of who others are, of who we are. But what in the material world is concrete and fixed? Even the mightiest mountain is in motion on the molecular level. And on the more mundane level it is being eroded, by wind, by water, blown apart by eruptions, plowed into the earths crust by tectonics. Nothing at all is fixed and certain in our world. Maybe certainty is inharmonious with God, or the Divine. Maybe more of us should be on the fence, if not in the belief that there IS a Divine, but at least in regard to the belief that we could possibly know what that means.

I like your message! You gave me your humble insight.

Let me add this; to take a stand, even a meager one, is to open up a door to new possibilities. Why? Because we took the risk to do it in the first place.

All risks involve fear or uncertainty. One of the biggest obstacles to overcome is the fear of being wrong! But it is in this exercise that we glean new information to base new decisions on. We would not be confronted by this opportunity, unless we took the chance.

We take a stand even if we are not sure footed, so as to see what is ahead, and how far we have come. That is called taking a spiritual step. It is like the old exercise: fall backwards, I will catch you. It involves risk that develops trust.

If you sense that it is right...do it. If everything tells you that you should stop...stop. Does it have a ring of truth? Right, wrong, or indifferent, does it feel right? These are the guidelines I follow.

reply to post by mrwupy

We all must make our own way in the spiritual paths we choose. No two are alike.

Ditto!

So, it would not be hard to imagine that God would also have a personality, and one that adjusts, or accepts our differences.

I don't believe that he requires much - just recognition. Don't we?