Massive New Chinese Missile Base Uncovered

seeing as you guys seem rather intelligent, do you think the haarp could be the cause of all the cancers that seem to be getting worse and worse, I mean if it can do something as significant as control the minds of large populations and do so much damage to the earth don't you think it could really cause some major damage to the human body? Of course pollution,artificial food,cigarettes are all to blame as well...but what do you think of that? i'm not arguing anyone's belief or saying I know exactly what i'm talking about, just simply curious.

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
reply to post by jetxnet

 

4) Relgious:
Some say God or other all-mighty power is "punishing China and/or World". I'm a Buddhist myself, so I do't believe in a God. Even if a God does exist, it will be hard to imagine he is a mass-murderer, even killing so many innocent blank-paged children. Children who don't even know what it looks like to walk on the streets of Shenzhen.

There are some major concepts in Buddhism like karma, rebirth, etc. Buddhism has its own view on natural disasters and although it does not attribute the causes of the natural disasters to the Enlightened beings, it believes that these are generated by man himself.

From your words I really doubt that you are Buddhist. You need to learn that Buddhism and Communism has nothing in common. You are really confusing them.

reply to post by zarzar


And this is your reasoning why someone can not be a buddhist, just because I live in a "communist" country and have a certain opinion about certain topics? Put your prejudices aside and start to learn the person before judging anyone.

reply to post by FedtStensDyr


I have no clue, the wildest theories are popping up in here and other places, even only hours after the disaster happened. In the case of CERN, they might not even tell the public if they already did a test or hundreds before, isn't it?

As I said, I am not ruling out any possibilities. But I do believe these are wild guesses.

Originally posted by johnsky
Okay, woah, wait one minute.

I don't know if you intentionally did so... but you've grossly exaggerated the scenario.


A : 1,500 miles from Delingha in central China, places the range as only just able to leave China... unless you're speaking about Mongolia, because they would be a prime target for this missile site.

Here... this should paint a clearer picture for you.



Thats a rough drawing of a 1,500 mile range from the missile site. As you can see, the best targets for this missile site are in Mongolia and China itself.

The US keeps building up their economy while they point more missles at the West.

Dead wrong. This missile site, as I stated, and you posted the link... has a range of 1,500 miles... thats approximately 6,500 miles short of being capable of reaching you.

Don't try to claim this site is for aiming at the west... that's like saying little johnny's packing a BB Gun with the intent on taking out the local police. It's absurd.


I'm no supporter of Chinas recent politics... but don't try and tell us this is intended to be aimed at the west... it's so ridiculously under-ranged, the mere notion of it reaching the western world is a fairytale.


And as for your comment on supporting their economy. Let me bring things back down to reality here... without China, the United States would cease to be a consumer nation. Given that the US has no major exports... the US economy would cease to exist without China there to buy goods from.


Like I said, I can't stand Chinas politics lately... but don't make a big deal out of something that really isn't.

If you're worried about Mongolia, then that's a valid concern, as the missile range was clearly intended to target Mongolia. But don't make claims it's to be targeted at the western world...entirely wrong area of the world.



[EDIT] And no, Taiwan is just outside the reach of the 1,500 mile maximum range.

[edit on 21-5-2008 by johnsky]

Thank you for putting this in perspective.For the record the US spends more on its military than russia,china and europe COMBINED.Im no fan of chinese politics either but fear mongering gets us no where.The chinese are an ancient society by our standards and i believe one of the first cultures to emerge on our world.

Although located in central China,these launchers are mobile.That being said,take about 100 or so east for 10 or 12 hours and they are now able to hit anything in the south China sea and beyond.
In 1990 Iraq created quite a problem for our air force due to this little feature.
By the time intelligence found and tasked a air strike,it was gone,Yikes!! Don't you hate that.
If you where to take your time so to speak you could place quite a few in groups all over the place.Then you could really let the dogs of war out.
Do not fear China,but at least respect that they have amazing capabilities in the art of war.

Peace and Mercy

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
reply to post by zarzar

 

And this is your reasoning why someone can not be a buddhist, just because I live in a "communist" country and have a certain opinion about certain topics? Put your prejudices aside and start to learn the person before judging anyone.

I see that you are well educated and probably a man with good nature. I am also kinda religious and you could say I am a Buddhist. Naturally, I also believe in the law of cause and effect, action and reaction. Actually, it is not a matter of belief, but a matter of knowledge and understanding and you know that.

I don't have prejudices about you, as I have read a lot of your messages in the forum. In accordance to the Buddhist teachings I am concerned about all the people and that includes you and all of us here. My wish towards you is not to ruin yourself and other people because of that tiny little bit.

Strictly speaking your government is not a pure communist system anymore, since it no longer follows the communist manifesto in its entirety. Large corporations and a big boost of artificially incited nationalism makes it exactly a mixture of a fascist and a communist dictatorship. The widespread extreme torture and killings are still placing it at the top of the most cruel and inhuman totalitarian regimes existed ever on the planet.

reply to post by IchiNiSan


Hey 1-2-3!
A noob here. I have a question since you're in China. Do you read Chinese? Did you hear about this scientist, who had warned the authority about the earthquake a week or two prior?
Chinese page here
I got it through a Japanese site, but I don't read Chinese so I used translate.google.com but that didn't lead me to any picture of him.

According to the Japanese site, he is a grand son of a secretary of the founder of Taiwan, Sun Yat-sen, and he is an English-Jew! (According to the Japanese source.) I'm curious now that an English-Jew who works as a consultant in geophysics who knew about the earthquake...

Thanks in advance?




[edit on 22-5-2008 by reibian]

[edit on 22-5-2008 by reibian]

it's reported that a long term 2 year prediction was made in recent years,but not immediate warning ever filed by China Seismological Bureau.the only successful earthquake prediction in the world was 1975 haicheng earthquake in northeast china.people were evacuated before that earthquake,experts on tv says that earthquake had very obvious warning signs before it,and this sichuan one didnt.no other earthquakes were accurately predicted anywhere in the world besides the haicheng one.

Originally posted by jetxnet
Thanks, those aren't the missles pointed at the West, this was my mistake.

The main concern about these missles is the shooting down of American satellites.

Read the article for more information.

[edit on 21-5-2008 by jetxnet]

That would be american satellites spying over China would it? If chinese satellites were spying over the US presumably you would leave them alone becasue it's the right thing to do.....or are you hypocritical?

reply to post by zarzar


So far I believe I am cherishing every second of my life without too much regrets yet and in accordance with my belief or better to say way of living doing the actions which I believe is the right thing to do. For example, by becoming active in ATS the recent months, I believe I am doing my fair share of informing to those in this mostly non-Chinese community willing to listen a different version of the truth in the hope that at least there is one or two guys or gals might be a bit more informed than before, and with this extra information might even consider the possibility that his/her initially-always-thought "solution" might not be the best for the people they feel or care for.

Indeed China is hardly a communist system anymore ever since Deng Xiaoping laid out the peaceful path to reform and grow, by abandoning collectivism and embrace capitalism. To many points I don't agree, but I would like to address only one of your point. I would not agree with you the claim of "artificially incited nationalism". So far I observed and experienced this is by far not artificially incited and more an awakening of something very special in many Chinese all over the world. We are talking about 4th or 5th generation Overseas Chinese sharing the same pride in the Chinese culture. These very people who will disagree with the Chinese government in Beijing for many things, we do stand up together and get united when it comes down to a general attack on the Chinese people. And just because this is not artificially, it is most likely now scaring certain evil powers even more than ever, and I bet this unexpected awakening is forcing them to modify or re-define their outlined plans....

reply to post by reibian


Is it a Taiwanese site? Because it is blocked here. I will take a look at it when I am back in Hong Kong in the weekend.

Not heard about it, I did hear about a seismology Chinese student who made an essay just about less than one year ago warning that according to his forecast we are one big earthquake due in Gansu or Sichuan.

Although honestly speaking, there are way too much rumors going on right now from day one. And again, wildest guesses and theories are made.

As for Sun Yat-Sen, or I have always known him as Sun ZhongShan. He is actually considered the Country's Father (literally translated), or let's say the founder of the Republic of China (Taiwan) AND People's Republic of China (Mainland China). He is a Christian, who did study abroad and hardly an English Jew, ironically he is of nationality American At his birth-place, ZhongShan, which is in the GuangDong province in China, the Chinese "Communist" Party has built statues and musea.

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
reply to post by zarzar

 

Indeed China is hardly a communist system anymore ever since Deng Xiaoping laid out the peaceful path to reform and grow, by abandoning collectivism and embrace capitalism. To many points I don't agree, but I would like to address only one of your point. I would not agree with you the claim of "artificially incited nationalism". So far I observed and experienced this is by far not artificially incited and more an awakening of something very special in many Chinese all over the world. We are talking about 4th or 5th generation Overseas Chinese sharing the same pride in the Chinese culture. These very people who will disagree with the Chinese government in Beijing for many things, we do stand up together and get united when it comes down to a general attack on the Chinese people. And just because this is not artificially, it is most likely now scaring certain evil powers even more than ever, and I bet this unexpected awakening is forcing them to modify or re-define their outlined plans....

I don't see any organized entity attacking the Chinese people, except the Communist party itself. What I see are many people angry with the politics of the Chinese government and its use of torture, killing, immoral deeds, lies, etc. Many Chinese people are confusing defending the dictatorship with patriotism. How could a rational person accept the killings of so many people and how could a rational person defend the evildoers? People should have basic human rights, which are universal, but the Chinese people are deprived from them and this includes even you. The sadness is that many of them not only silently accept it, but they even think that this is the way the things should be and that it is a good thing. This is the mentality of the slave. There is a good story in the Old Testament about this type of mentality.

If you don't believe me that you are deprived from your basic human rights, then get a poster telling that the Communism Party is evil, bring it to the center of your city, stay there and wait. You will face a treatment we cannot easily imagine here in the Western and relatively free world.

Originally posted by zarzar

Zarzar,
Here are a few articles which are one of the better analysis of what is going on recently. Please read it first.
Risky geopolitical game: Washington plays ‘Tibet Roulette’ with China
China and America: The Tibet Human Rights PsyOp
The Hypocrisy and Danger of Anti-China Demonstrations
Western Media Fabrications regarding the Tibet Riots

I presume you have read it by now, or maybe even decided to make a research if the authors have any valid points and did not simply "fabricated" some information.

Now, what everyone has to understand when dealing with China is that we are a different people, we have a different culture, hold different norms and values. We value things much more different than Westerners. So what is important to you, might not be as important or maybe even not important to us at all. Of course there ARE universal ideas, like no stealing or murdering. However, does it mean the Western-viewed human rights are also as universal as you have claimed to be? Even in Western countries you will find a variety of opinions of what they would consider as basic "universal" human rights, some would be for the death penalty, many are against it. So do we not value human rights? Of course not, but let me explain my second point first.

Secondly, we have a long history, a very very long history, of 5000 years old. Throughout this we have relatively long periods of stability and prosperity, and every time when a dynasty is falling to be replaced for a new one we have a relatively short period of sometimes hundreds of years of Wars, Instability, Disorder and many suffering. Now, ever since the empirialists knocked on our doors it have speed up the falling of the Qing dynasty but also over more than 150 years of Wars, Instability, Disorder and many suffering. We are talking about wars with foreign colonial empirialists, even being invaded and our capital plundered (which USA also took part of), Japs who were conducting a Chinese holocaust with the most horrible Rape of Nanjing, Civil wars killing millions, two disastrious policies with the most terrible one Cultural Revolution. ONLY 30 years ago, Deng XiaoPing laid out a peaceful long-term plan to abandon collectivism and opening up China embracing free market trade and capitalism. This is a new socialism with Chinese characteristics and a capitalistic economy.

The case is that in a country with over 1,400,000,000 Chinese people who share a unique culture the over majority will rather prefer stability and a hope to gain prosperity over most of the other things, which Westerners are valueing more like freedom of speech or certain angled "human rights". Don't ever forget that we have built up our nation again at the edge of total collapsing and even worse than the worst 3rd world countries. The China of today is providing everyone the spirit and hope that one day they might be able to earn enough to buy that luxurious color-TV. As long as the current government is doing the things the over majority of the people is expecting them to do, which is building up the country again and maintain stability against any unrest and wars, then you will see the people giving this government the support and mandate they need. This means, we would rather sacrifice the lifes of a small minority of criminals rather than allowing these criminals to destabilize China. It is all about the grand picture and make sure the over majority of the Chinese people get prosperous first in their basic needs. I believe the Sichuan Earthquake has exposed to the world how poor certain places in China still is....

This all said, maybe it is time to raise up another article for you to take a look at: The Chinese Brand of Democracy
Democracy is in my opinion still very over-stated as "THE" solution to run a country. What is needed right now for China is clear-minded capable strong leaders, who never loose sight of that grand picture. So that's why our clear-minded leaders are also continuously improving themselves, shown by how impressive they acted in the Sichuan disaster. This in comparison with how they handled the Snow-Storm disaster earlier this year or the Tibet unrest show to the public that they ARE improving and learning. This means keep on reforming the politburo, the central and local governments, increase the pace of it. Introduce openness & transparancy (free media as example), accountability (eliminate corruption) and a new system with Ruling by the Law. Of course and never forget tackling the hundreds if not thouands of other pressing social and economic issues with this new system or bluntly top-down decisive and swift action. And one of the very most important thing is continue listening to constructive criticism, this is becoming more and more the responsibility of the millions of Chinese Netizens. If ever you learn Chinese, you will see how many forums similar to ATS we have and political new ideas, suggestions, comments, adressing isue and so on are blooming, guess what I do believe Beijing is listening. So eventually, especially for now, we rather don't need elected leaders, but capable, experienced and strong ones, who is at least acting in such a way that the over majority of the people are benefitting from.

We are living in a very unique era, we are seeing how China is pulling ourselves together after 200 years of black pages in the history books, and transitting our civilization to a Modern China. One in which we will have our own unique system which will become equally as succesful as the European or American equivalents and bring prosperity to each corner of China.



Disclaimer: I do not share 100% of the analysis of the articles I brought up as supporting sources.

reply to post by zarzar

we never said china was a democracy,but we dont believe it means evil either.i live in the states for some years and i m in a good position to do the comparison bw the two countries.amercian style democracy simply doesnt fit here in china.china is a big nation with strong regional stereotype among our own people.we need a very powerful and centralized government to hold the country and its people together.there are sometimes in chinese history that the central government temporarily lost its power and the result was dozens of regional warlords fighting against each other to try to seize a bigger share of country.millions perished due to the never ending war like what happened right after the collapse of last qing dynasty early last centuray.

singapore's road to the success maybe is more suitable for china.politicallly controlled by the goverment and ecnomically a miracle of success,we are the same people sharing similiar philosophy and values.

china in the future maybe will adopt western style democracy,but right now is simply not the right time to do so,it has not reached that stage yet.installing western democray in china now can only spell disaster.everything here is just not ready for that.and eastern european style shock therapy could lead to huge crisis that even the rest of world band together cant handle.

better spend sometime in both china and western countries and experience things ,think and then comment.dont take things for granted.this government at least for a whole decade keeping china the fastest growing economy in the world,people living standard significantly being pushed up.made china first time in several hundred years standing among the world powers again.

people are receiving so much benifits from this government now.we dont see this government the same one 30 years ago,althought they still have the same name,still called communist party,but that is only nominal.there is simply no reason for the people who are in the middle of getting well off to turn against this government.

is that a coincidence?i didnt see IchiNiSan's post before i posted mine.but we basically talked about the same stuff.and of cause due to his english proficiency he has a much better post.but at least people can tell how chinese and westerners minds work differently

[edit on 23-5-2008 by haidian]

reply to post by haidian


Both of our posts are relatively long posts and needed some time to compile

But yeah, it is striking that in general we share the same opinion. Haha, I do know many "chinese" who will strangle me for writing that post, just like I am expecting that from certain ATS members

people better learn some chinese history and philosophy before making any hasty judgement on the country and its people.of course it is not an easy thing,china has a 5000 year history,i've learned decades to get mine.although i lived in the states for some years but i usually dont make any judgement on the country and people there cause i think several years are not long enough to fully understand the country,people and their culture and i dont like to sound ignorant either.

What ever happened to those moving trucks that said "Electronics Displays" on the side? They just drove around the US and never delivered anything.
I have just revealed more top secret stuff so expect me to be terminated. Love, earthman

reply to post by jetxnet


I think China may be a bit over 1,200 miles from the Western Seaboard wouldn't it? .. Perhaps not, I have never looked to see the distance, but I know from my state to California is over 2,000 miles.