Why do you believe in Extra Terrestrials?

They told me they don't exist so I don't believe in them.

Seriously though, is it entirely necessary to believe or disbelieve in aliens?

This puts a duality into the argument that doesn't make sense. I do understand that the 'belief vs disbelief' paradigm is part of a larger divide and conquer strategy. Why can't we just talk about possibilities involving aliens without belief involved? Don't scientists talk about string theory without ever having seen a string? Don't they perform experiments to find stuff they can't readily see?

So what's the stigmata with alien life and UFOs? Maybe it's the concentration on physical life instead of looking for consciousness elsewhere. If they can convince us that the physical is all there is then it's easy to say "why would an alien travel billions of light years to do a fly by?" or "if you don't see them then they don't exist".

But scientists didn't see atoms until they created instruments with the ability to see them. Yet they still didn't tire in their search. They got all kinds of government grants. And there are many examples of this playing out. Yet when it comes to aliens and ufos, it's the rag-tag UFO community with no funding that comes in to try to find out what's going on.

No, I don't believe in aliens nor do I disbelieve. The possibility exists. The probability of that possibility will increase or decrease with available evidence.

It's funny how easy it is to create two polarities on almost every subject and people just fall into either camp. And then the divide-and-conquer strategy goes to work. We fight amongst ourselves and the enemy just sits back and laughs.

I believe in them simply because I choose to. I have no proof to show you. Look at the BILLIONS of people who believe in a GOD. Have they seen their GOD?

As far as science not proving that there is life out there, I believe they are forced to withhold that information because of our government. If word got out about verified intelligent life existing elsewhere, our government would loose credibility (as if they have any!), they would loose control of keeping us in the dark

I myself believe that there are aliens on our planet right now. Do I have proof? No.

Originally posted by General Izer
No, I don't believe in aliens nor do I disbelieve. The possibility exists. The probability of that possibility will increase or decrease with available evidence.

That was extremely well said. If I didn't already have a great sig line, I'd add your text as a signature. Perhaps you should put it in as yours? I feel it's something we need to remind the Community each and every time the 'belief' question arises.

Originally posted by General Izer
It's funny how easy it is to create two polarities on almost every subject and people just fall into either camp. And then the divide-and-conquer strategy goes to work. We fight amongst ourselves and the enemy just sits back and laughs.

Exactly the tactic I'm observing from this end, and attempting to fight. You've cut right to the heart of the issue.

In Politics (and let's face it, we're sort of talking about the Politics of the study of UFOs, and the Political tactics used to assault that study) it is often helpful to not allow your opponents to define your stance with their keywords.

For example, what George Bush calls a War, many people with degrees in History would call an Occupation. (I really don't want to stray into Presidential Politics, just making an example, for those that don't agree with the point, it's just an example...)

In the same respect, it appears that the opposition to Theory 1 (mentioned in my above post, I'm calling Theory 1 the theory that there is life out there, and Theory 2 the theory that there is NO life out there) is responsible for the 'Believer' label. It's keyword meant to associate a researcher with a lunatic fringe.

General I hope you read my above post, it seems like you 'get it'.

Every time I hear the word 'believer' and 'belief' associated with a field clearly full of evidence and scientific analysis, I MUST ask who is the author and why are they using this word?

A much better word is proponent. A proponent is someone who finds credence in a theory due to observed evidence supporting that theory.

We must keep in mind that when dealing with EITHER Theory 1 or Theory 2, the people representing BOTH sides are merely proponents. Assigning the title 'Believer' to one side or the other is merely an attack tactic, meant to associate that side with the lunatic fringe.

For example, I could just as easily say that people in the opposition 'Believe' that there is no life out there, without evidence to back that 'Belief' up.

But really, assault tactics and politics aside, both Theories have proponents and detractors. Belief is a word reserved for Religion, specifically because the answers in Religion are not provable through observed evidence, and 'Belief' is required, or 'Faith'.

Neither Belief nor Faith are required in Ufology. Nor do I note these words being often used by anyone, unless that person is using them as an attack tactic.

There is abounding evidence in this field. There is no 'Belief' or 'Faith' required when observed evidence is readily available.

-WFA

beyond the logic that so many have already stated... someone had to build the things I have seen that defy the laws of physics and it was not the military.

I think it's hard to discount the multitude of sightings from around the world. I've had two myself.

Nowadays it's questionable as to which ones are extraterrestrial and which ones are human-made. But many ancient civilizations have stories and drawings of things that look and sound like your typical UFO's to me. These are from thousands of years ago. To me that in itself is amazing.

I just think all the evidence points towards them being real. It's more than enough for me to believe.

To say there isn't after only what 6000 - 8000 years of our own recorded history when the our planet is billions of years old alone and has produced so much life.
Its pure arrogance and ignorance to say we are the only ones in the universe.

Thats like saying you only ever get blue smarties.
We all know for a fact there is a number of colours included in the same pack. Thing is you only like the blue flavored ones so you choose to ignore the rest.

Come on people. The most advanced and only race in the universe?
Hard proof is not needed for this topic surely?
(if we were created after all these billions of years on our tiny planet then i think the odds more than clearly point to NO we are not alone, to think so is foolish)

Also. Whats this nonsense about 'aliens' or other life forms having to have water and oxygen to live?
If thats the case, then would you be there creator because to know such a thing would be the only feasible truth?

Originally posted by tiano
Also. Whats this nonsense about 'aliens' or other life forms having to have water and oxygen to live?
If thats the case, then would you be there creator because to know such a thing would be the only feasible truth?

My apologies, you are probably getting that (if from this thread) from the paragraph where I detailed the possibility for life on Europa, etc.

I did state it as "life as we know it", just for the record.

And I fully agree with your argument here. Simply because our foundation for life includes the above factors, does not necessarily mean that an ET species (or an entire world of ET Species) would share our life requirements.

To illustrate this point further, I submit the moon Titan, of Saturn. Liquid has been found on the surface. Granted a lot of it seems to be liquid methane, but who is to say that a life form could not survive on liquid methane? Simply because humans cannot substitute methane for H20, does not mean that other life forms have not evolved suited for such an environment.

Indeed, ET life may be found that is not even Carbon based! (Carbon serves as a 'carrier' and other important ingredients for life as we know it, like Hydrogen and Oxygen bond to the carrier Carbon) This is (roughly) the origin of the term 'HydroCarbon'.

There could well be forms of life out there that are not Carbon Based. Silicon would also serve as a decent 'carrier'. Who is to say that there are not species out there that depend on 'HydroSilicons' or even 'MethaSilicons' (Substituting Methane for Hydrogen and Silicon for Carbon).

The point is that complex organisms are formable, even if the components don't resemble ours.

You've made a really good point here Tiano.

-WFA

I image two people on another planet. One turns to the other and asks "Do you believe there could be people on another planet?" The other laughs and says "Don't be silly."

That tiny little thought of mine is why I believe in aliens.

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar


Thank you WTA i appreciate that.

I do apologize though that was not directed at any comments made in this post but rather to the argument a lot of scientists or documentary's always seem to make.
They always go on a search for a planet like our own to hold ET, it just shows that humans have become to dependent on this 'logical' way of thinking.

I think thats the biggest problem is we are too logical. Anyone coming from space would be seen as a threat instantly by many of people. Firstly though we have to find somewhere for them to live else they cant exist right?
Well multiple dimensions have been proven am i correct?
That pretty much sums it up for me, that also shows that god is perfectly feasible.

Ever seen DBZ ?
Yes ok its a kids cartoon but does that mean that the idea of different dimensions having different beings there is impossible?

We need to think outside the box again, use what i like to call intuitional thought.

If everything is the same form of energy in vibration just at different frequencies then come on?
How much are we really missing?

Doesn't that also kind of explain why that crazy old chinese man can make fire in his hands ?
He never learnt the logical thought process, no he learnt that you could make fire in your hand, simply by moulding chakra or (that vibrational energy) - fine tuning your hand and mind to put out a certain frequency.

Now its been proved our thoughts put out different energy at certain frequencies. Each thought has a different frequency.

Positive thoughts put out 100times more energy than a negative thought?
That says a lot, that says more than logical thought could ever say.

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
That was extremely well said. If I didn't already have a great sig line, I'd add your text as a signature. Perhaps you should put it in as yours? I feel it's something we need to remind the Community each and every time the 'belief' question arises.

Thank you. I'm not much for sigs but I'll think about it.

It's heartening to see that others can see the covert machinations in play. I agree with all your points and have come to the same conclusions. The very fact that this one subject is shunned by the mainstream should give anyone pause.

I do think there are additional, more subtle, layers to why these strategies work so well, over and over.

The human ego (not to be confused with the personality) does not wish to admit that it isn't in complete control. It doesn't want to admit that all it has invested in this life is mostly lies. This is a very difficult hurdle to get over for the individual. Logic and reason are replaced with rationalization and wishful thinking in order to defend one's position.

Given this prolific mental dis-ease called 'ego' it becomes nearly impossible for truth to be known because the truth isn't what the ego wants to hear.

The 'belief vs disbelief' paradigm plays to this mental dis-ease by pitting the two sides against each other which causes both sides to constantly defend their position. This conflict is readily seen here on ATS and other such forums. And it's not, by any means, specific to the questions of Aliens and UFOs.

This false conflict created by false polarities is just another means of distraction. The ratio of 'defense posts' to 'logic posts' in this and other such forums, is alarming. And that goes for both sides of any given false dichotomy.

But, I don't see it stopping anytime soon. Many people aren't ready to give up their beliefs and disbeliefs in order to allow for all possibilities. And that's ok. We are each at our own level of progression. It is, however, too bad that everyone suffers the consequences of other peoples rationalizations and wishful thinking.

Interesting discussion It's always good to contemplate your own beliefs, so I spend today investigating my own.

I am a believer, because for me it is obvious that close encounters in the past have caused people up to today (in our illuminated age) to believe in god. Simpley because aliens must have been like gods to us earthlings. Somewhere in our collective memories we are still waiting for the gods, god, allah, shiva, aliens to return...

Ancient sumerian writings, ancient Egyptian writings, ancient tribes like the Dogon, ancient drawings in caves. There's so much overwhelming evidence that's how I see it.

The writings from Zecharia Sitchin are very convincing for me although it is just one theory.

In which category do you place me?

I believe in aiens because i dont think it can be posibble that there arent any because there are so many stars and planets in the universe its hard to believe there isnt life on any of them

"Fear strikes deep in the heartland.". -Paul Simon

Do you walk on the trail in the forest, or trample your way through the underbrush and carve your own path?

Do you drive on the road, or fly around unrestrained?

Do you follow your orders (laws) and obey the higher authority?

Do you have faith in an almighty God?

Want to know why? Because you are afraid. You FEAR to go off the beaten path. You FEAR the repercussions of your outlaw activities. You FEAR GOD.

Our Government FEARS any advanced civilization- wouldn't you be scared to have some new conquistadors banging on our borders with more advanced weaponry and intelligence? How bout if you never knew when they were coming because you couldn't see them until they're already here. That scares the hell out of me. But this is why I believe the government does not acknowledge anything of extraterrestrial intelligence. A lot of people out there simply couldn't handle the truth, and I think that the government thinks society would self-destruct upon knowing if they actually do exist.

I wish to God that I could have an experience worthy of mentioning on the UFO/alien subject, but I don't. Never been that lucky I guess, nor has any catalyst flashed up any suppressed memories. Even with the passionate attempts I've seen to either debunk or acknowledge aliens, I will always believe that there is life out there simply because it just feels right. The speculation and theory of extraterrestrial life just has a harmonious tone to it that resonates well with my psyche. Don't know any other way to explain it.

Why do i believe in aliens?

Because the mathmatical probability is they do exist, look up the Drake equation. That' my basis for believing in aliens, whether or not they're intelligent is a different matter, but the Drake equation was expanded upon with very conservative numbers and it still seems to point to advanced alien life existing somewhere in this universe.

Have they visited earth? I have absolutely no clue, until an alien takes me out to a pub, sits me down, drinks a beer (or something with alcohol in otherwise i will walk away), and explains exactly how they're craft can travel great distances. I won't be believing they have visited earth.

reply to post by dhardeman


That fear (the government's fear) is actually on record, in the form of the Brookings Report on the subject in the 1970's. The subsequent actions of our Government regarding this issue has strictly followed the Report's recommendations ever since, and for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

Personally, I have a hard time believing that our species would self destruct out of fear. It's possible of course, but I don't think it's likely.
It seems to me that our civilization would respond in much the same ways we always have when faced with a prospect that scary; some of us will diefy it, some of us will investigate it, and some of us will fight it.

However I understand the Gov't's fear, even if I don't necessarily agree that their fears are valid. And once again dhardeman, you've raised an important point. You could well be correct, and so could the Brookings Study.

If you factor in the Battle of Los Angeles (using the Gov't's own analysis concluding that the object was un-identified) their fears hit home. Here was an object that flew over one of America's major cities in a time of War, and survived without apparent damage the full brunt of our Anti-Aircraft defenses on the West Coast. Then it flew away. Such an intimidating display of invulnerability would surely influence the reaction of those charged with a nation's security.

I feel it important to note, however, that the object did not return fire, at all. So while I feel that fear of a power greater than us might be valid, it might also be unneccesary. Not only from the Gov't's perspective, but from that of the average citizen of Earth as well, and societally as a whole.

Fears though, even irrational ones, are extremely difficult to dissuade, especially if the fear is underlying and subconcious. It seems to me that as the motivating force behind the 'stigma' attached to the subject, you've nailed it. It's fear.

-WFA

"why do *I* believe in aliens?"

without reading all the posts above, i wanted to just state my opinion whether it was already said or not, here.

in astronomic terms, we are 1 in a space of billion and billions of stars and planets.
we can see them.

WE are living proof that intelligent and non-intelligent life exists. in fact, the life alone on our planet is so vast and different it's mind boggling. it's not just small biological differences between each living organism here, but vast.

just when your mind couldn't possibly dream up some esoteric life-form so drastically different than our own hominid, we meet the inhabitants of our deep oceans. that alone shows the vast possibility of life. OR the organisms that live centimeters from blazing hot volcanic thermo-tubes in the oceans, to the viruses and bacterias in our bodies that actually communicate with each other.

what i have the hardest time understanding is, how could one NOT believe there is life that resides off earth? albeit intelligent or single cell. to me it's "if it's glowing red-hot and you can feel the heat just being near it, do you really need to touch it to know it's hot?"

my answer is yes. i do believe there is other life, period.

When do we learn from history.

The sun doesn't revolve around the earth, so doesn't the Universe.
Life will always exist in any form or any way. It did before the humans and it will after we nuke ourselves.

So therefor Aliens do/did/will exist.

regards

reply to post by jedimiller


I believe because I've been paying attention.

Oh and also because I don't allow my ego to dictate my beliefs. If you think belief in ET is only for primitive natives in 3rd world nations or drunken buffoons in 1st world nations, guess again.

Short list of "important and/or well educated people" who believe in ET:

1) Michio Kaku- Went to Harvard and U.C. Berkeley. Currently a major figure in popular science, theoretical physics.

2) Paul R. Hill- Pioneering aeronautical research engineer who did cutting edge work for NACA and NASA. Witnessed UFOs on two seperate occasions.

3) Hermann Oberth- One of the founding fathers of rocketry and astronautics.

4) Ronald Reagan- 40th President of the US.

5) Jimmy Carter- 39th President of the US.

6) Bernard Haisch- PhD in astronomy, worked at the Solar & Astrophysics Lab at Lockheed Martin, Deputy Director of Center for Extreme Ultraviolet Astrophysics Lab at UC Berkeley, etc..

7) Vasily Alaexeyev- Major General in Russian Air Force.

8) Gordon Cooper- Colonel USAF, American astronaut

9) Edgar Mitchell- Captain USN, American astronaut

10) Joseph Walker- Captain and Astronaut USAF

11) Major A. B. Cox- Graduate Yale Univ, member of the Society of American Engineers

12) Clyde Tombaugh- American astronomer who discovered Pluto

13) Nick Pope- Former officer of British MOD who documented reports for Project Condign

14) J. Allen Hynek- US astronomer and professor. Former skeptic turned believer after working for Project Sign, Grudge, and Blue Book.

15) Jacques Vallee- French born scientist, professional astronomer, PhD in computer science

16) Aleksandr Plaksin- Military geophysicist, historian

17) Buzz Aldrin- Colonel USAF, American astronaut

18) John Lennon- English musician, songwriter, artist

19) Walter Cronkite- Famous anchorman for CBS News

20) Richard Russel- Govenor of Georgia, US Senator

21) The list can go on and on.......

22) You get the point......

23) The reason ufology isn't totally accepted because you can't bring a saucer/alien into a lab and study it and thus it's not technically science. Nonetheless, the question one needs to ask themself is:

Are you sure it's the rigidity of our own self imposed methods of understanding reality which keeps you from not believing in ET? Or are we still collectively suffering the lingering hangover of a not too distant past when Earth was the center of the universe?

ciao

science would not reveal anything like that because there would be mass histeria religion would be question and a lot of people would loose money. basically the collapse of our civilization
reply to post by jedimiller

I do believe because it's impossible we're alone in the Universe. There are many galaxies and we just know our , besides I think it's pretty interesting - I like this stuff and also astrology and I came here to learn more about it and read your experiences - pity I haven't get one instead pharanormal yes.

I'm new here by the way