Depressed Teenagers Making Themselves Worse With Marijuana Says US Government Report

It's not what you do to the mind....

It's the mind you do it to!

I was depressed i went to the doctor i filled out a questionair and we talked for 5 minutes they gave me effexor er. next month went back no change doc says hmph double the dose se ya in a month keeps going untill guess what the fuxing idiot drugs they give you make you worse, and on top of that your left even more deflated and hopeless because you realize that there is no help out there. therapists are full of it, minus well of talked to my dog. anti depressents are amoung the easiest drugs to get, and for me someone who went through childhood sexual abuse i feel like there should be some real help out there guess what theres not. i know all to well about the mental illness and guess what cannibus is a godsend, it doesnt cure anything but it calms the mind in ways there stupid pills cant.
current meds nothing

past effexor geodone zoloft paxil all made me worse

nobody, and i mean NOBODY has a right to tell me what i cannot and can take for the way I feel.

I know what made me worse it was the doctors that said here take these pills and cya in 2 weeks.

and for the chemical imbalence arguement, what part of answering a few questions to a stranger (doc) acually measured these chemical levels? none they just prescribe the crap and hope for the best, its guesswork, and god help you if they start in with the electrocic shock therapy. I learn most everything the hard way and i learned about anti depressents the hard way as well.

As they say, the truth is out there, and the truth hurts.

All of these member accounts of life changing benefits will mean nothing to those most concerned with continuity of the website's ability to reach certain media where talk of drugs can apparently get you 'marked' or ignored. Kinda like that infamous mark you will get at the pharmacy secretly on your "record" if you accidentally try to pick up your controlled substance medication one or two days ahead of time. I was marked once just for calling and asking what day I could get it refilled because I was at work and didn't have the bottle or information such as the date with me. Sheesh. Walgreens can go bankrupt for all I care, I hope they do.

Anyway, the unfortunate reality is, while the site owners and controllers do have our best interests at heart as well as their own, they inadvertently create a hypocracy by suppressing the truth, not on purpose, not because its true, but because it is in conflict with the site's best interest.

I've heard what SkepticOverlord had to say about it a while back on the mix show, as well as what Springer had to say about it. They have valid points. But this point is also valid, and it is just unfortunate that truth gets squashed on a truth seeking website.

Kudos to the staff for keeping it open as long as you have.


[edit on 5/15/2008 by runetang]

reply to post by Bunch


I hate to keep saying this mate but I'm just not buying your personal experience. It just contradicts everything I know, runetang knows, temperamental69 knows and many others on this thread, and many many people that visit the same dispensary I do know.

I'm not saying those things you experienced didn't happen but I'll bet if you really look hard you'll see MJ is not the cause of their problems.
How would you know if it was? Are you an expert on behaviour and dependency? Not to mention the effects of drugs, in this case Cannabis? Or because of some obviously BS government whitehouse release?
Maybe your perception of the events is biased towards thinking it was Cannabis for some reason? Maybe you just need to blame it on something?

Drugs don't mess people up, they mess themselves up....What you do you choose to do, no one forced you and certainly no drug made you take a different drug. It's all about taking responsibility for your own actions, which is something people nowadays have forgotten how to do. I think they pander you too much as kids or something... You're special, you're oh so very special...

[edit on 15/5/2008 by ANOK]

Originally posted by Bunch
The other point that I want to make is that may be MJ is not good for all individuals or to treat all conditions and thats something that need more study, so the same way you dont agree with this study I have my serious doubts with the articles you have presented.

Sry missed this part ^.

Thing is 4000 years of history support those findings. People who smoke everyday now and benefit from it support those findings.

There is NO evidence to support the findings you bring forward, other than the so called research itself.

I'm done, there is so much evidence in this thread it would convince a nun, you don't want to change your mind. Unfortunately you've bought the BS and your mind is made up.

Do you know how long they test those anti-depressants for before they're put on the market and make millions of dollars, while a few kids hang themselves after using them? Not 4000 years lol....

4000 yrs of use as a medicine and recreationally, where are all the drug addicts from this gateway drug?

Perspective man, and a little logic, that's all I ask...

1) Cannabis was made illegal in the 1930s by Harry Anslinger after cotton lobbyists pushed to make hemp illegal, leading to anti-MJ campaigns and the spectacularly accurate film "Reefer Madness." This blatant propaganda combined with Anslinger's lust for personal advancement(he saw this as a perfect opportunity to secure his legacy) led the nation into a fervor about the "dangers" of marijuana. There was no real negative affects on society, the situation was just portrayed as such.

2) Cannabis is NOT a gateway drug. It's just easier to find for the people who are likely to experiment with many different drugs.

3) Teenagers are depressed. There's no beating around the bush. Varying hormone levels and stressing social situations inevitably lead to sorrowful feelings, which is only natural.

4) The modern view on cannabis is terribly misconstrued between MSM portrayals(its portrayed both negatively and indifferently...rarely positively), and bogus press releases from the government such as the one being discussed in this thread.

5) Legalizing MJ is a terrible idea, as the heroin, coc aine, meth, etc. addicts will want their drug of choice to have the same fate. Also, big business and the government will have a field day packaging, selling, and taxing the plant to high hell. Decriminalization is crucial at this point. Instead of jail time, fine the individual and use the money for more productive means such as stopping rape and murder. Hey, it'll even help with our overcrowded "correctional facilities."

6) Cannabis does not make you lazy. It just so happens that a lot of the people in the world are lazy and some of them just so happen to indulge.

7) Most importantly, the benefits of a plant that was outlawed due to some misguided legislation almost a century ago have been swept under the rug. Hemp can be used for an almost incalculable number of things such as fibrous products, various oils(cooking and mechanical), and medication. It also has a photosynthetic rate that is twice the rate of most plants on Earth and could be used to combat CO2 emissions in the atmosphere. Ok, that last one is more theoretical, but I'm right about the photosynthetic rate. Look it up.

8) It's called weed for a reason, you can grow it anywhere without much effort. The plant is very durable and the psychotropic effects only come from the correct balance of soil and tropical conditions. The plants buds swell and produce THC to protect themselves from UV radiation in equatorial climates, and it is this substance that creates the euphoric effect. How can something so versatile be ignored in such a blind manner?

In summary, what most of the population knows about MJ, and the circumstances surrounding its recreational use, has been straight slander from a group of people who only want to control what you think and consume. The government can't tax or control the production of it so they don't want it around. Hence you have these false reports of what cannabis does to your psyche and how it's BAD FOR AMERICA! If it does become legalized, it will be a sad day. Expect terrible quality in mass quantities, soaring prices, and the inability to grow it yourself(they'll say it allows a black market to arise).

Trust me...I'm an expert on the subject.

Don't give a joint to a child to make him responsible, give a joint to a responsible child.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Sacreligion]

Originally posted by nexusmagazine

Hydroponic pot growers are not widely known to flush their crops, hence their consumers are suffering the exact same symptoms of these heavy metal poisonings. It is these chemicals in the pot from the liquids that is causing the rise in marijuana psychosis. It is NOT the concentration of THC causing the psychosis.

actually they do.....

if you don't flush it it gives it a really nasty taste....word gets round fast if someone is selling crap stuff......

Just to throw in this opinion, if it hasn't been yet, which mentions the article starting this thread...

The government's sorta-kinda-maybe logic

Take, if you will, the new report titled "Teen Marijuana Use Worsens Depression: An Analysis of Recent Data Shows 'Self-Medicating' Could Actually Make Things Worse." Scary stuff.

"Adolescent marijuana use may be a factor that triggers psychosis, depression, and other mental illness," explains Walters, who admits "research about causality is still ongoing."

Ongoing, doubtlessly, until Walters unearths the answer he's looking for.

It's not often you see half-baked phrases like "Could Actually" in the title of a study. You'll also notice Walters also says it "may be a factor." Because, in other words, "it may not" be a factor at all.

The study of causality — proof that one thing causes the other — is imperative. (A recent British government study was "unconvinced" that any such relationship exists). Surely, one "could actually" find a link between depressed teens and alcohol consumption, or overeating, of any number of self-destructive habits.

Exactly.

reply to post by Karlhungis


And they give licence to Big Pharma to poison us and our children with their deadly antidepressants and ADHD medications not to mention the lethal cholestrol lowering and heart medication, and when Big Pharma are found to be responsible for the deaths of countless thousands through their poisons they go to jail right, nope, they get a little biddy fine equivalent to .001% of their profits. Hmmmm.

Something rotten methinks.

Smoking really strong dope all the time is not a good thing. If there was more choice like in Holland there would be less problems. Fact is Cannabis is legal in Holland in small quantities, they have LESS teens and adolescents smoking it, than smoke/use it in the US or the rest of Europe, this is a FACT. They have LESS drug related crime also, these are facts google them. Their children are given more choice so very often they make the right choice.

In the US wilful children are prescribed Ritalin, which is a derivative of coc aine, Ritalin has been shown to increase the likelihood of major addiction issues in later life. Google that little fact before you give them to your precious children.

reply to post by willywagga


That is correct. I just heard about a report a week ago, it said that cannabis use, over here in Holland was lower than countries where it's illegal, like France for instance.

Although it is legal to sell and buy cannabis in "Coffee Shops", as we call 'em, it is however illegal to grow, transport, sell or own large quantities. This is a very hypocritical policy.

It has caused many people to start producing cannabis very professionally in attics, sheds and warehouses and such, cause it is big bussiness.

So the until the cannabis is inside the coffeeshop, the whole process is illegal.
But this way our government can at least put taxes on the cannabis, without actually having to regulate, and produce it themselves.

Personally I don't use the Coffee Shops, I'd rather get my supply straight of the market, without any government taxed middleman, who is also greedy himself on top of it. It saves me half the money.

I think cannabis use is pretty harmless and it really has positive effects on many levels, but when you have mental problems you shouldn't smoke to much, and too often, especially the crazy strong MJ we have here in Holland.

I have gone trough mild depressions where sometimes I would get anxiety attacks after smokin, so it can definately enhance the state you are in.

These depressions were not caused by cannabis, but by living in this matrix we live in, knowing that something is very wrong, starting to wake up, while the world around me was in a deep sleep.

If anything, cannabis has helped me open my mind to the "real world" out there and all the new possibilities in it.

I must say however that I think that cannabis can actually be physically addictive, going from my own experiences

I've been quite a heavy user, on a daily basis, and there have been several times when I went on vacation to Spain, and I had to go cold turkey for two weeks.

I was going through withdrawal for sure, couldn't eat, sleep, cold sweats, no energy, kindoff messed up half of those vacations. Lost like 10 pounds and I hardly have any fat on me as it is.

Maybe it is because the THC-levels in Dutch weed are getting ridiculously high, even if you compare it to five years ago, maybe that is something that could be dangerous, if growers are making the cannabis unnaturaly strong.

Mentally, it is definately addictive, but so is everything else that people like.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


I could not stop thinking and something just pop in my mind that make me laugh, perhaps the reason this is seasonal, is because with the stimulus checks coming in the big pharma wants a piece of the pie and is encouraging people with teens to take them to their doctors and check their depression status so they can be prescribed good safe antidepressants approved by the good reliable FDA

Sorry I could not help myself here.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by enigmania


Thanks for bringing another perspective to this thread. In your country usage is legal and you say you are a habitual user and still had some side effects along with some benefits as well.

That's my point all along when it comes to MJ, it has goods and bad, it is not the all perfect plant that some here are making it to see. I'm from Puerto Rico the second capital of MJ behind Jamaica, pretty much everyone smokes on the island and I have seen first hand the goods and the bads.

No matter how many all goody stories and hear on this board is not going to change the fact that I have seen first hand the good and bad of this drug.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Bunch]

reply to post by Bunch


I think you missed enigmania's point entirely

These depressions were not caused by cannabis, but by living in this matrix we live in, knowing that something is very wrong, starting to wake up, while the world around me was in a deep sleep.

If anything, cannabis has helped me open my mind to the "real world" out there and all the new possibilities in it.

AS ANOK has been saying the whole time, its not the plants fault that some people turn lazy or ruin their lives (still unclear as to how that happened), its the users fault.

reply to post by enigmania


I agree wholeheartedly with you, persistent smoking of cannabis can effect a person in many ways, some positive and some negative. And as a heavy past user, I also went through periods of withdrawal; cold sweats, irritable etc. I stopped smoking because I prefer to have a clear head to help me work and be with my family etc. I noticed cannabis zapped my drive.
However if one measures up the actual positive and negative effects of cannabis versus say alcohol or tobacco cannabis is the easy winner. Tobacco is just plain deadly, has no up side at all, it will not improve any aspect of your life and it will kill you sooner or later. Alcohol is a very good drug and a very bad drug, it makes people loosen up but it often turns people into violent or very stupid people.
As drugs go, and I have tried many. I would give Alcohol 3 out of ten, Tobacco gets 0 out of ten, cannabis gets 6 out of ten. I could go on, but I'd be straying from the topic.

Over all as a non user myself I really believe cannabis and cannabis users are being treated unfairly. Because of its status over the years the perception of cannabis is still very negative particularly in the US, and as we all know the US has a great influence over the rest of us. I think the world would be a better place if we followed the Dutch model, we'd have less wars more peace and love and hazy understanding. So what if everything took a little while longer to get done.









[edit on 15-5-2008 by willywagga]

reply to post by InSpiteOf


And to that I agree and also to what you said, but enigmania also talks about the side effects and his believes that people with mental issues should not use it.

And I go back to my analogy between alcohol and MJ, not all people that drink become alcoholics, there has to be something that makes alcoholics create that dependency, alcohol may not have addictive properties per se but some people develop a dependency to it. Why? Who knows? There are studies right now that are even suggesting that it might be an DNA thing. The fact that remains is that as long as we have people that are at risk of developing a dependency to MJ it needs to be regulated, not been label illegal, but regulated.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Bunch]

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
reply to post by Bunch

 

I think you missed enigmania's point entirely

These depressions were not caused by cannabis, but by living in this matrix we live in, knowing that something is very wrong, starting to wake up, while the world around me was in a deep sleep.

If anything, cannabis has helped me open my mind to the "real world" out there and all the new possibilities in it.

AS ANOK has been saying the whole time, its not the plants fault that some people turn lazy or ruin their lives (still unclear as to how that happened), its the users fault.

Yes, but Bunch was talking about the negative side-effects I mentioned, the anxiety attacks and the withdrawals I went through.

All he is saying is that besides all the amazing properties of the cannabis plant, smoking it can have some negative side-effects.

I fully agree with that and that was the point of my post.

So, if you highlight pieces of my post, don't just highlight the pieces you can use to attack Bunch's opinion.

Actually sry to burst bubbles again but Cannabis is NOT legal in the Netherlands. They have a program of high tolerance for small quantities for personal use of 'soft' drugs. You can still be ticketed for smoking in public, and possession.

At least it's recognised as a 'soft' drug there. Cannabis is not legal anywhere AFAIK...

Cannabis remains a controlled substance in the Netherlands and both possession and production for personal use are still misdemeanors, punishable by fine. Coffee shops are also technically illegal according to the statutes but, as has been said, are flourishing nonetheless.

However, a policy of non-enforcement has led to a situation where reliance upon non-enforcement has become common, and because of this the courts have ruled against the government when individual cases were prosecuted.

This is because the Dutch Ministry of Justice applies a gedoogbeleid (policy of tolerance or allowance policy) with regard to soft drugs: an official set of guidelines telling public prosecutors under which circumstances offenders should not be prosecuted. This is a more official version of the common practice in other countries, in which law enforcement sets priorities as to which offenses are important enough to spend limited resources on.

Source

This may be my mot difficult post to date:

- On Teenagers -

Among the single most insanely afflicted with naturally occurring hormonal cocktails. "Normal' ranges of emotional states range from gleeful bliss to morose angst. Morbid and pessimistic tirades, accentuated by nearly rapturous elation and militant optimism. Possibility that a normal American teenager is plunged into a biochemically induced state of Depression, or near anxiety, 50-50.

Nice 'target' to consider regarding state of mind no?

- On Marijuana -

Propaganda name given the naturally occurring Cannabis Genus of plants. Hundreds of millions of dollars spent to either a) control it's use, or b) destroy its availability to the common populations, many of which have been using it both medicinally and recreationaly since long-before the European Dark Ages. Essentially a weed.

Only the media-conditioned can deny why this particular 'drug' was singled out for the warning. A while new team of 'experts' will be assembled for the 'talking-head' broadcasts of shame on this one... can;t wait for the government-sponsored edutainment to begin!

- On Depression -

Probably the single most misused 'lay' term to express the recognition of a mental state; the hallmark of which is a temporary apparent pervasive sadness, self-absorption, and behavior leading towards the anti-social.

This 'condition' more in teenagers than any other group, is a 'normal' phase. The voyage into and out of this state has led to the creation of incredible moving art, paintings, music, poetry. Of course once medicated by big Pharma it also leads to suicide, murder, outrageous self-mutilation, amongst other things.

And pot makes it worse? What about Beer? What about Eating? What about watching Television? This is pathetic! It IS propaganda, they need to ensure that the political constituencies are 're-focused' on the Satan-drug marijuana so they can write to their representatives to vote against such proposed legislation to allow the states to forbid the federal government from interfering in legitimate medical prescription distribution and use of the substance (such as the “Medical Marijuana Patient Protection Act”, H.R. 5842, which would bar the Federal Government from intervening in doctor/patient relationships that violate no state law. if interested - Related thread )

I will leave the details of who would want this done, but please refer to the original report for the mind bending propaganda source...,

www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov...

Please note that this document comes from the "Executive" creation of the White House (1) - Not the FDA, not the CDC, not the AMA, it cites no International studies (but one from Great Britain).

It also, quite surprisingly, defines depression(2) in terms oddly coincidental to those symptoms of demonstrated repeat exposure to Flouride. I thought that was funny.


(1) There is much to be saids regarding the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) but that would fill another thread.
(2) in a tiny footnote with its other 'sources'

reply to post by enigmania


You were probably having anxiety attacks not panic attacks, but Cannabis can cause anxiety attacks and guess what? So can caffein, tobacco, chocolate, diet, stress, work, life, are you sure it was the Cannabis?

Should we ban everything that has some negative affect? What about cars, guns, sex, wifes, governments?...All far less healthy than MJ...

reply to post by ANOK

Actually sry to burst bubbles again but Cannabis is NOT legal in the Netherlands. They have a program of high tolerance for small quantities for personal use of 'soft' drugs. You can still be ticketed for smoking in public, and possession.

Are you kidding me? Are you from Holland? You are allowed to have 5 grams on you and you are allowed to smoke weed in public, I have never heard of somebody getting a ticket for smoking it in public.

I already explained in my post that the whole process is illegal, till the weed gets in the coffeeshops, and taxes are paid over it. I also said it is illegal to posess large quantities, so I don't know where you're coming from.

It is legal to smoke and posess weed in Holland.

You were probably having anxiety attacks not panic attacks, but Cannabis can cause anxiety attacks and guess what? So can caffein, tobacco, chocolate, diet, stress, work, life, are you sure it was the Cannabis?

Please, I'm sharing some experiences here, if you don't believe me, fine, I have nothing to prove, certainly not to you.

Should we ban everything that has some negative affect? What about cars, guns, sex, wifes, governments?...All far less healthy than MJ...

I don't know who or what you are fighting against, but I never mentioned, nor implied that cannabis should be banned. Did you actually read my post?

I think I've made my point pretty clear, but somehow you can't seem to grasp it, so I'll try again.

I use cannabis, and it has had very positive effects, the plant has medicinal value and has other great potential and it should be legalised worldwide.

I also experienced some negative effects and I've seen negative effects around me.

Maybe you only want to hear how great and good it is for you, but I know from 10 years of experience it has its good and its bad sides.

[edit on 15/5/08 by enigmania]