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Saddam's jail diary reveals AIDS fear from americans

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posted on May, 9 2008 @ 05:02 AM
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Who sold the chems to f up the kurds? Probably monsanto. Was Hussein a monster? Yes. Was he a monster that could keep a handle on that god forsaken country yes? Is our government monsters? Abso freakin' lutey. It's a fubar sit all the way around.




posted on May, 9 2008 @ 05:05 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 05:09 AM
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C'mon now jso. Haven't we had enough fubar with JL and everything else lately without direct attacks. People here know enough who are full of it and who aren't.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 05:21 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 



I am going to respond to you, to show that you are totally misinformed. Last response to you, though, because a) you're too easy (you don't do research, you just spout groupthink), and b) I am afraid you've reached your intellectual peak already.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
reply to post by jsobecky
 


Alright let's fan the flames of patriotism here a bit...


Saddam used some of them on his own people, the UN inspectors destroyed some of them, the rest are probably in Syria.


How could the Inspectors destroy them if they admit they found almost no evidence of WMD's and they were forced to leave early?
www.cbsnews.com...

Kind of hard to destroy something you can't find?
Even the Heads of the Inspection Team admit there was little compelling evidence to invade Iraq on in 2003. www.cnn.com...

I think it's safe to say the judgment of the Inspection Team supersedes your clouded and misguided comments.


So you are saying the inspectors didn't destroy any WMDs because they couldn't find any?

Wrong. AND LET ME SUPPLY A SOURCE THAT SHOWS YOU ARE WRONG AND MISINFORMED, JUST SO THERE IS NO DOUBT.

I hate to use all caps, but like they say, if you want to get a mule's attention, sometimes you have to smack it squarely between the eyes with a 2x4.



UNSCOM inspection activities and Coalition military strikes destroyed most of its prohibited ballistic missiles and some Gulf war-era chemical and biological munitions, but Iraq still has a small force of extended-range Scud-variant missiles, chemical precursors, biological seed stock, and thousands of munitions suitable for chemical and biological agents.

www.fas.org...


What's the point in embarassing you any further? Will you learn? I doubt it. My time is too valuable, anyway.

Buh-bye.

Civility and Decorum are Required

[edit on 9-5-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by jpm1602
 


You're right. I've been conned into casting my pearls at swine, as the saying goes.

I'm outta here.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Stop The Presses! News Alert!

The contest for the most idiotic, harebrained statement ever posted on ATS is NOW CLOSED.


Well the CIA only changed their mind about the responsible party, suddenly it wasn't Iran anymore but in fact the Iraqi's, in the late 90's but i must admit the CIA is not reliable source.
If you want to argue the specifics surrounding the incidents we can start whenever you like.


We have an undeniable WINNER! Nobody can top StellarX!


Your right about the fact that you can't stop me with the type of nonsense your presenting but i hardly feel like a winner for trying to report on the truth...


I'm not even going to respond to the rest ( i.e., "Saddam was benevolent ) of your post because a) it's really insane and b) I'm still laughing too hard at what you already said.


I said that comparatively he was quite benevolent and it's all a question of who your willing or unwilling to compare him to. If you don't want to compare him to other or former US allies in the region i can see why as it would destroy the notion that SH was the most brutal of the lot.


And to think you actually got starred for it.:shk:

Buh-bye.


There's always a small minority of people that actually know what's going on. I would like if you could address the rest of my post as it's definitely pertinent to the question of just how much SH did or didn't do for Iraq.

Did or didn't Iraq have the most doctors,engineers, teachers and almost everything else of importance in the region? Why were their living standards the highest of any nation in the middle east before the US national security state decided to ignore Saddam's willingness to unconditionally withdraw from Kuwait and instead bomb Iraq's civilian infrastructure into comparatively oblivion? The fact that that is entirely illegal , according to most conventions including the Geneva, rarely comes up when we talk about 'liberation' from Iraq. Why can't i ask if it was always the plan of the Us national security state people to bomb Iraqi's out of prosperity, education and all the rest of the stuff that makes a modern state possible?


This social history is confirmed in the efforts of the government to generalize opportunities for basic education throughout the country. Between 1976 and 1986, the number of primary-school students increased 30 percent; female students increased 45 percent, from 35 to 44 percent of the total. The number of primary-school teachers increased 40 percent over this period. At the secondary level, the number of students increased by 46 percent, and the number of female students increased by 55 percent, from 29 to 36 percent of the total. Baghdad, which had about 29 percent of the population, had 26 percent of the primary students, 27 percent of the female primary students, and 32 percent of the secondary students.

With the outbreak of the war, the government faced a difficult dilemma regarding education. Despite the shortage of wartime manpower, the regime was unwilling to tap the pool of available university students, arguing that these young people were Iraq's hope for the future. As of early 1988, therefore, the government routinely exempted students from military service until graduation, a policy it adhered to rigorously.

en.wikipedia.org...


And can and will go on to point out why there were half a dozen countries in the ME that were in far more dire need of 'liberation' than Iraq was.

Stellar

[edit on 9-5-2008 by StellarX]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 05:47 AM
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That's not helping Stella. This tit for tat crap on this board is bs. Let someone else play with the firetruck for a change. Ego is really off the hook here.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 06:03 AM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


Well good friggin' riddance, can't handle the heat? Get out of the kitchen...

Absolutely typical. Your piss weak arguments get picked to pieces and shredded by people who actually give sources and verifiable information and you decide to leave?

The fact you didn't even bother to acknowledge my rebuttal to half your other outright lies signifies your stubborn attitude.
At least admit your conceding defeat, don't just go "Oh I'm too clever for this place, buh-bye."

It's too bad you Republicans don't see Iraq the same way. Otherwise you'd be running for the hills right now as we speak..

Ah well, hard to change the hypocrisy of a lifetime in a few minutes.


[edit on 9/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 07:12 AM
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Please, back on topic.

Remember : Civility and Decorum are Required

Any further Off Topic posts will be deleted.


Thank You, Happy Friday !!!



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 08:15 AM
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Please cut the crap!
You guys ILLEGALLY invaded a country and used reasons that were non-existent. Totally MADE UP reasons.

Plus, you guys forced other country's like mine to participate in that illegal and outrageous war and now my fellow dutchman are dying over there.

You are not the World Police so stop DICTATING other country's yourselves.
For an example, you want Iran to stop making nucleair weapons because hey, only you guys may have them.

With the pathetic attack on own ground, executed by your own people and your own government, you guys putted the whole planet on flames. Attacks everywhere, London, Madrid... and why? becuse the muslim people just want to defend themselves from crazy american powerpeople doing things the the devil himself even would not do, all because of the laughable economicall condition he USA is. You guys are so great and powerfull that you execute attacks between own borders because you need oil from the other side of the planet.

I am so sick of the american arrogance... just try to *SNIP* get your own poo together and leave other people on the other side of the planet alone.
You really are not realizing what you have done do you?

People are dying everywhere, because of you guys. And im not talking about american people.

[edit on 9/5/08 by TheNetherlands]

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 9/5/2008 by Mirthful Me]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by TheNetherlands
You guys ILLEGALLY invaded a country

Wrong.

1 - The war was approved by our government so according to our laws, it was not illegal as far as the USA is concerned.

2 - The UN, and any country on this planet that you can name, has NO BUSINESS telling us what we can or can't do. Our soverignty is NOT in your hands, or the hands of the UN, or anyone else.

3 - The UN doesn't run the world. It's rules are a paper tiger. It means nothing.


you guys forced other country's like mine to participate in that illegal and outrageous war

1 - It's not illegal.
2 - It's not 'outrageous'.
3 - No one forced your country to go to war. It decided to all on it's own.


You are not the World Police

Neither is the UN.


so stop DICTATING other country's yourselves.

You are acting like the USA is the only country on the planet that moves things internationally to best advantage itself.
Guess what ... EVERY first world country ... and many second world countries ... do! EVERY stink'n one of them. Every country does what it best for itself.

So YOU stop DICTATING what American can and can't do. Open your eyes and take a look around. Every country not of the third world takes care of international business to make things best for their own country.


you want Iran to stop making nucleair weapons because hey, only you guys may have them.

:shk: Wrong. It's because Iran can't be trusted with nuclear weapons. Their leadership is whack. Completely whack. AND it's leadership has, many times, called for the destruction of America. OF COURSE we aren't going to want them to have have nuclear weapons. (duh!)

America has had nukes for 60 years. We can be trusted with them.
Iran can't. It's as simple as that.


you guys putted the whole planet on flames.

WRONG. Radical Islam has the world in flames and the streets running with blood. They were at it long before we came along and they'll be at it long after America is gone.


I am so sick of the american arrogance...

And we are sick of foreign arrogance telling US what to do .. and sick of foreigners blaming US for everything wrong in the world ... and sick of foreigners siding with terrorist maggots like the PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah.


#ing get your own # together

bad words .. not allowed.


and leave other people on the other side of the planet alone.

We will when they leave us and our part of the world alone. Which is something other countries have NEVER done. NEVER.


People are dying everywhere, because of you guys.

:shk: People are dying everywhere because of RADICAL ISLAM.
People are being helped and are LIVING everywhere because of the generosity of American citizens.

[edit on 5/9/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Think before thou dictates...



1 - The war was approved by our government so according to our laws, it was not illegal as far as the USA is concerned.

2 - The UN, and any country on this planet that you can name, has NO BUSINESS telling us what we can or can't do. Our soverignty is NOT in your hands, or the hands of the UN, or anyone else.

3 - The UN doesn't run the world. It's rules are a paper tiger. It means nothing.


The UN may not mean much, but evidence is still the primary way civilized human beings justify legal recourse.

And as far as evidence goes the US had jack all.

There were no WMD's.
There was no link with Al-Qaeda and Saddam.

America has no business telling Saddam Hussein he needs to dismantle his "phantom" chemical weapons when they gave him Chemical Weapons in the 1980's to kill Kurds & Iranians with. You wanna give military hardware to dictators, hey expect some consequences...

America has no business invading a sovereign nation with no proper justification and defying 130 other countries who disagreed with falsified, bogus intelligence; so they can sit atop the world's second largest reserve of oil and make record profits for their oil-addicted, Republican Administration.

UN Inspectors found NOTHING:www.cnn.com...
Saddam didn't hide his weapons next door in Syria:www.washingtonpost.com...

Face it, none of Bush's justifications stand up to serious scrutiny.
You had no right to go into Iraq.


1 - It's not illegal.
2 - It's not 'outrageous'.
3 - No one forced your country to go to war. It decided to all on it's own.


1 - See above.

2 - Invading another country just so you can plunder their natural resources and make record oil profits, and then concocting some half-baked excuses to try and justify it is pretty outrageous to me.
The Nazis pulled the same stunt in WW2,do you support them?

3 - Then what was Bush rambling on about with his "Your either with us or against us... speech and threatening embargoes and sanctions on other nations?


So YOU stop DICTATING what American can and can't do. Open your eyes and take a look around. Every country not of the third world takes care of international business to make things best for their own country.


No. America needs to stop dictating Foreign Policy for other nations and how people 10,000 miles away should live and under what government.

I don't remember the Iraqis being asked if they want to live under US occupation forces for the next 10 years, do you?

Who is the US to force democracy onto people with a sword? If democracy is a system of government for the people by the people than the people alone determine if they want it..
Not some tyrannical Texan and his neck-deep-in-oil Administration 10,000 miles away.
That makes you no better than the dictator who forced military rule onto his own people.

The simple fact you have to understand here, is it was a clever diversion. There were no WMD's, Saddam didn't know who Osama was, and there was no threat.
They played you and the American public like a flute, to distract you from the real objective of the Iraq War: Energy Interests


Wrong. It's because Iran can't be trusted with nuclear weapons. Their leadership is whack. Completely whack.


Whack?
The US has hundred's of thousands of troops stationed next door in Iran's neighbors, Bush is threatening military action, and their democratically-elected President Mossadegh was overthrown in 1953 for not licking US ass.
And they want to stand up for themselves?
Oh yeah, what whackjobs.

How exactly did America start it's Nuclear Programme all those years ago? You guys did the exact same thing, rumors of a German programme under development sparked yours and yet here you are blaming Iran for doing the exact same thing?

Hypocrits... sigh.

To my knowledge the only nation whose used Nuclear Weapons is the Yanks, correct?
If anyone's not be trusted with 14,000 Nukes it's the USA.

Iran has yet to invade another nation, topple a regime, or be concretely linked to Shiite Militias in Iraq:news.yahoo.com...

You don't have the goods on them I'm afraid, so the Bush Admin is cranking up the propaganda machine as much as it can to try and discredit Iran and fool it's public a second time.


AND it's leadership has, many times, called for the destruction of America. OF COURSE we aren't going to want them to have have nuclear weapons.


Really? How about a quote there? A source? Anything...

You mean like the "Israel needs to be wiped off the map" speech?
Which has been debunked about 20,000 times now:
www.mohammadmossadegh.com...
www.juancole.com...

Go try and dig up some dirt elsewhere, I'm not buying that load of crap.


And we are sick of foreign arrogance telling US what to do .. and sick of foreigners blaming US for everything wrong in the world ... and sick of foreigners siding with terrorist maggots like the PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah.


The Arab World is sick of Americans. Their sick of you and your Oil-addicted nation which now is the greatest threat to stability in the Middle East.

They're sick of being told how they should live their lives by Western Standards. People in the Middle East have been living by Quran for 1,500 years and if you think you can bomb that lifestyle out of them then get the hell off the computer and travel more.

You guys gave the perfect justification for all those "terrorists" and "whackjobs" to rise up carry out terrorist attacks when you invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.
You have become in essence the greatest recruiter for Islamic Fundamentalists. Your beating Osama at his own game.

Whether your flushing Qurans down toilets, torturing detainees in Gitmo or Abu Ghraib, calling Iran an "Axis of Evil", killing innocent civilians in Iraq, "accidentally" blowing up homes with Predator Drones in Afghanistan, and giving Israel all the military hardware it needs to bomb Lebanon and Gaza back into the Stone Ages..
You sure know how to make Muslims feel warm and fuzzy!!



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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There is no such thing as an illegal war, that's ridiculous. We shouldn't have gone, wars should be abolished, but there not, and probably never will be. The fact is we can invade any country we wish for any reason we wish, because we can. The same as england, china, australia, and any other country can and has. Is it right? Not at all, personally, I don't see the need for war anymore, and think the mid east and africa should just be allowed to kill themselves so we can move on as a people and take there wasted resources and land. As far as genocide goes, no countries intervene ever really. Australia didnt go to africa to stop it, neither did england, canada, china, japan, or even south africa, because no one cares, because it doesn't effect anyone in those countries, and thats the way it is. So for other countries to point at america and condemn is so old and pathetic already as there countries are guilty of the same things, and is just hollowed out nonsense now considering they don't do any of the things they say we should. As far as ignorant chicken hawks like a particular member on this thread with a plane as an avatar, there just scared cowards. They will never do anything or say anything against there leaders because they protect all cowards from having to live, protect, or think for themselves, and life is easier that way. So personal attacks against people like that will never work, because there wrapped up in a protective blanket from there governments lies.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by h3akalee
 


Well from one Brit to another i give you a hug and soldiers such as your self are always in my thoughts.

Respect



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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Wow.

I read through this entire topic, and all I saw were people condemning one another's opinions for not aligning with their own. I read countless posts which were entirely off topic, and instead resorted to borderline-personal-attacks that are just formal enough to avoid getting warns, attacking people's intellect, views, politics, ethics, and feelings, rather than discussing the topic of Saddam's fear of AIDS while in custody.

This is addressed to both "sides" of the debate I witnessed raging herein:

Just because you all disagree with one another, it doesn't automatically render the holder of those differing views less intelligent, informed, or experienced. People are different. People can have an equal sum of experience, be equally intelligent as you, and be privy to all of the same information as you, and STILL come away with a perspective completely contrary to your own. Why? Because people are diverse, and diversity is what makes communities like this one strong (in my opinion.)

People always seem to assume that if someone does't believe what you do, then they must somehow lack something that you have. How conceited, in my opinion.

No doubt someone will now rebut, "And your own off topic post contributed how exactly?" or something along those lines. I would argue that that would be to totally avoid and deflect my point, however. (Which is, of course, your right... but I hope you will consider what I have said at least.)

That's all I have to "contribute" to this thread and others like it. *sigh*


Edited for spelling.

[edit on 5/9/2008 by AceWombat04]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
The UN may not mean much,

They are just an anti-American cesspool of corruption.
They mean nothing. Their opinion means nothing.


America has no business invading a sovereign nation with no proper justification

When it comes to our national security … we can do what we want.
We could never provide ‘Proper justification’ that would satisfy anti-american yahoos anyways.


and defying 130 other countries

So what? Our national security comes before what other countries want.


so they can sit atop the world's second largest reserve of oil and make record profits for their oil-addicted, Republican Administration.

:shk: If we wanted to invade and take over oil wells we would have kept the Kuwaiti ones that we liberated 15 years ago .. and we’d be taking over Venezuela. Venezuela is closer and easier.


Invading another country just so you can plunder their natural resources and make record oil profits,

Plunder their natural resources. That’s funny.
The oil companies aren’t making record oil profits by stealing oil from Iraq.
They are making record oil profits by stealing money from US.


America needs to stop dictating Foreign Policy for other nations and how people 10,000 miles away should live and under what government.

No. America will definitely continue to influence other countries and situations in such a manner that is best for our country. Try to comprehend … this is basic stuff … EVERY country in the world that is a 1st or 2nd world country tries to manipulate the world situation to it’s own advantage. We aren’t alone. Deal with it.


To my knowledge the only nation whose used Nuclear Weapons is the Yanks, correct? If anyone's not be trusted with 14,000 Nukes it's the USA.

Oh brother. America has had nukes for 60 years and used two – in a defense mode – to end a war that was waged against us. We definitely CAN be trusted with them. Iran can not.


Which has been debunked about 20,000 times now:

No it hasn’t.


The Arab World is sick of Americans.

Newsflash – the radical Arab world is sick of ALL INFIDELS. That means YOU too.
Convert or die. Hell ... they are sick of each other as well.


Their sick of you and your Oil-addicted nation

It’s our oil use that send $$$ into those Arab nations.
They’d be a wasteland without the $$$ from our oil use.
Hell .. I’m sick of giving them $$$. I’m all for cutting them off
and letting them wallow in their own cesspool of the ‘religion-of-peace’.


The greatest threat to stability in the Middle East….

… is radical Islam



They're sick of being told how they should live their lives by Western Standards.

Actually, the EDUCATED Arabs embrace Western society …and Western money.
The poor uneducated radicals are too busy killing each other, and killing their daughters in honor killings, to understand what civilization really is.


People in the Middle East have been living by Quran for 1,500 years and if you think you can bomb that lifestyle out of them then get the hell off the computer and travel more.

If you think that radical Islamics who are living by the Quran are peaceful … then you need to ‘get the hell off the computer and travel more’.



You guys gave the perfect justification for all those "terrorists" and "whackjobs" …

They ARE whackjobs and terrorists .. no need to put it in quotes.
Newsflash … they were mass murdering long before Bush43 got in office.
They were killing each other and taking infidel slaves long before America was even born.


You sure know how to make Muslims feel warm and fuzzy!!

I don’t care how they feel. Radical Islamics just want me converted or dead.
Appeasement just means the croc bites the useful idiot last.




[edit on 5/9/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by AceWombat04
Wow.

I read through this entire topic, and all I saw were people condemning one opinions for not aligning with their own.


Half did that while the other half condemned their obvious stupidity; at least that's how either side must be seeing it.



I read countless posts which were entirely off topic, and instead resorted to borderline-personal-attacks that are just formal enough to avoid getting warns, attacking people's intellect, views, politics, ethics, and feelings, rather than discussing the topic of Saddam's fear of AIDS while in custody.


So the saner people amongst us should allow the usual suspects to slander everything and everyone in sight? Why don't you read the thread again and notice how it's the people making all accusations about others stupidity that originally made terribly off topic comments?


This is addressed to both "sides" of the debate I witnessed raging herein:


Thanks for trying to be the 'diplomat'. Frankly you deserve worse than your going to get from me.

redwing.hutman.net...

You might find the rest of the descriptions as enjoyable.


Just because you all disagree with one another, it doesn't automatically render the holder of those differing views less intelligent, informed, or experienced.


So there is no objective reality, no objective facts ( the Earth doesn't revolve around the sun, gravity works half the time, etc) and were all just a bunch of morons for thinking that we can make objective sense of the reality? Sure someone who disagrees with me can be as intelligent ( if we presume that i am any of these things), informed and experienced but what the hell does that matter if one of us must objectively be closed to the truth than the other one? Does any of those things really matter if you happen to be right? Does any of those things really matter if your wrong?


People are different. People can have an equal sum of experience, be equally intelligent as you, and be privy to all of the same information as you, and STILL come away with a perspective completely contrary to your own.


On the same exactly subject or in terms of a over arching world view? Why would someone who is just like me think so differently from me? Isn't that a good argument against the proposition that we will have different ideas based on the same knowledge and experiences? Why have i never run into someone that knows the things i do and still disagrees? Why does the vast majority of people i engage seem completely oblivious to the volume of information i drew on to reach my conclusions? Sure i can agree with your in theory but it's really really theoretical and apparently quite unlikely.


Why? Because people are diverse, and diversity is what makes communities like this one strong (in my opinion.)


You say divirsity but all i see is less informed and completely misinformed people. What i most certainly don't often see is people who work from the same data and still reach different conclusions.


People always seem to assume that if someoe does't believe what you do, then they must somehow lack something that you have. How conceited, in my opinion.


But since when is this a question of just belief? Did you notice how people introduce evidence in support of what they believe? Why are you suggesting that resolutions are so entirely impossible?


No doubt someone will now rebut, "And your own off topic post contributed how exactly?" or something along those lines. I would argue that that would be to totally avoid and deflect my point, however. (Which is, of course, your right... but I hope you will consider what I have said at least.)

That's all I have to "contribute" to this thread and others like it. *sigh*


I don't mind that your trying to contribute but i wonder what you think about the possibility of us approaching objective truths.... Do you think that's at all possible or do you see no hope for this thread/forum?

Stellar



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by StellarX
 


I would never call someone a moron, and I don't see people in that way.

As for obvious stupidity, I don't equate being incorrect (if they are indeed incorrect - which I don't know) with being stupid. There's a difference in my opinion.

As for objectivity, I believe it's possible to arrive at an objective truth within the realm of known quantities and variables. The problem is that I also acknowledge the very real possibility that I don't (and perhaps can't) know everything, and that there may therefore exist unknown quantities and variables. That essentially means that in the grand scheme of things, at least where I am personally concerned, it may be impossible to arrive at an absolute, objective reality. Any observable evidence that I perceive still relies on my perceptions, which may in turn be inaccurate or incorrect, however improbable that may seem to me or anyone else.

In a nut shell, I like to try and keep an open mind, and to remain agnostic and skeptical. (Skepticism doesn't mean to be a disbeliever - it means to be a disbeliever without proof, and to refrain from making assertions or assumptions one way or another without proof.)

Evidence, at least for me, isn't proof. At best, for me personally (and this is only my opinion and I in no way want to change your own or convince you of its veracity) all that can be claimed is that something seems highly probable. However, I cannot even be fully certain of that probability. All I can be certain of is what I feel, and what seems to be real. Whether it is or not is, in my opinion, difficult or impossible to prove (again - for me personally.)

I respect people's opinions and views, whether arrived at scientifically, (seemingly) objectively, subjectively, emotionally, or anecdotally, because for whatever reason - circumstance, ability, bias, assumption, perception, evidence, experience, or observation - their life has led them to the conclusion they hold to be correct.

To put it more briefly: I don't know. If you or others feel or believe that you do know, then I respect that, and I'm happy for you. (This is not sarcasm - I wish I could feel that way too, but I just don't.) I am not certain of anything.

Now, granted, I see nothing wrong with introducing evidence contrary to one's belief or opinion. However, many in this thread did so while simultaneously attacking people's intelligence, person, and/or dignity. I see no cause or call for that, personally. It seems entirely possible to me for people to share their views (and evidence) with respect and - dare I say it? - compassion.

I did not, as you suggest, "presume that the combatants would welcome and appreciate my even-handed and eminently reasonable mediation." I also did not assert (and I do not believe) that my post was "eminently" reasonable, nor do I view those who disagree with me as unintelligent, less intelligent, or unreasonable. I am merely saddened by such attacks. I was expressing my opinion and emotions after reading the thread: no more, and no less. I do not seek to change anyone's views.

I appreciate and respect your differing perspective and your input. I hope that you can find it in your heart to afford me the same courtesy, however you are free to do, feel, and say what you like.

Edited for spelling.

[edit on 5/9/2008 by AceWombat04]



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
1 - The war was approved by our government so according to our laws, it was not illegal as far as the USA is concerned.


Not according to your laws, but again, this shows the arrogance of most people in the USA. You guys arent the only ones living on this planet, so when you ask for permission and dont get it, then simply dont do it.
Ask no permission and just do it, or ask permission and live up to the answer you get.

Your american laws only are legal if it affects the american people, instead, it affected the whole freakin world and for that your laws dont count.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
2 - The UN, and any country on this planet that you can name, has NO BUSINESS telling us what we can or can't do. Our soverignty is NOT in your hands, or the hands of the UN, or anyone else.


And you have NO BUSINESS putting this entire planet on fire because you need oil from other country's, to make up for your economical mess only seen in third world country's.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
3 - The UN doesn't run the world. It's rules are a paper tiger. It means nothing.


No, the UN does not, you guys do. ILLEGALLY and against the will of 98 percent of the planets population.

And if you ATTACK YOURSELVES between OWN BORDERS, then dont get surprised if the UN gives no permission for a war that is ofcourse illegal because of fake reasons. Every government knows 911 was done by your own government, and so does the UN.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
you guys forced other country's like mine to participate in that illegal and outrageous war
1 - It's not illegal.
2 - It's not 'outrageous'.
3 - No one forced your country to go to war. It decided to all on it's own.


1. Wrong
2. Wrong
3. Wrong


Originally posted by FlyersFan

You are not the World Police

Neither is the UN.


No, they arent. Difference is, you guys act like you are whilst the UN or whatever country you name isnt. Add up the fact that the american people are acting like they own the world and they are the greatest, it just makes the USA a country other people laugh and puke about. We are not getting afraid of you, like you hope when spouting the arrogance you are known for.


Originally posted by FlyersFan

so stop DICTATING other country's yourselves.

You are acting like the USA is the only country on the planet that moves things internationally to best advantage itself.
Guess what ... EVERY first world country ... and many second world countries ... do! EVERY stink'n one of them. Every country does what it best for itself.


Yes, but i have never seen first world country's perform extreme devilish attacks on own people and ground, to start a war against people who have nothing to do with it, because they need oil. The USA is the antichrist, it destroy's the world and its going to destroy civilisation as we know it.


Originally posted by FlyersFan

you want Iran to stop making nucleair weapons because hey, only you guys may have them.

:shk: Wrong. It's because Iran can't be trusted with nuclear weapons. Their leadership is whack. Completely whack. AND it's leadership has, many times, called for the destruction of America. OF COURSE we aren't going to want them to have have nuclear weapons. (duh!)


No, ofcourse your leaders dont want it. But because you dont want it, it has to mean that they cant make em. And your telling me that the UN thinks they are the world police instead of the USA? Open your eyes dude, what America wants has to be what happens, even on the other side of the planet. Stop thinking you guys are the boss, stop thinking you guys are the best.

You can be trusted with 'em? Man your former president cant be trusted with a student and your current president cant even be trusted with a toy-pistol. Bush thinks he is God and even your own people know he is insane and can turn out to be 12 times as bad as Hitler was on his prime. Bush would wipe-out the world if Cheney, pretending to be god via the intercom commands him too, no questions asked.

You have nothing to say about any other country that wants nucleair weapons, NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Originally posted by FlyersFan
America has had nukes for 60 years. We can be trusted with them.
Iran can't. It's as simple as that.


Bush wasnt president in the last 60 years, dont forget that. And Iran cant, because it will threaten the power you think you have, thats all. Iran having Nukes would make it almost impossible for the devil in the white house to invade that country too, doesnt it.


Originally posted by FlyersFan

you guys putted the whole planet on flames.

WRONG. Radical Islam has the world in flames and the streets running with blood. They were at it long before we came along and they'll be at it long after America is gone.


Radical Islam didnt exist before you guys attacked your own people in your own country.
Sure, there were some attacks before 911 but those were attacks of crazy HUMANS, not crazy moslims, or crazu christians or JEWS.. individiual groups of sick people. Radical islam still doesnt exist. Radical Islam is made up by the USA and because of that they made muslims radical. So yes, USA set the world on flames for some oil.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by TheNetherlands
 




Originally posted by FlyersFan

I am so sick of the american arrogance...

And we are sick of foreign arrogance telling US what to do .. and sick of foreigners blaming US for everything wrong in the world ... and sick of foreigners siding with terrorist maggots like the PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah.


Ahh finally, i was already waiting for such a reply, Bush would be proud of you. "Siding with terrorist maggots". Its that black and white for you guys.
Dont it even comes to mind that i am siding with 98 percent of the world populace who have nothing to do with your crazy rants against muslims because of your so called leader cant stand the fact the middle east has more oil then the west?

I am siding the people who doesnt want anything to do with it but they are getting pulled in because your governments puts other governments under pressure. Our familymembers who arent even americans are getting killed over there, in a war that is ours and a war that isnt legal in the first place.
So please go pack you *snip* bags and get the *snip* out of your lazy chair and get yourself killed over there if you agree so much with the war and calling me a terrorist-sider.

Damn i can get so *snip* mad about this...


Originally posted by FlyersFan

and leave other people on the other side of the planet alone.

We will when they leave us and our part of the world alone. Which is something other countries have NEVER done. NEVER.


Damn i wont even reply to this example of extreme absurdity.
USA and leaving others be is like water and fire.


Originally posted by FlyersFan

People are dying everywhere, because of you guys.

:shk: People are dying everywhere because of RADICAL ISLAM.
People are being helped and are LIVING everywhere because of the generosity of American citizens.


The radical islam didnt execute the 911 attacks, you did.
Radical Islam didnt invade Iraq, you did.
Radical Islam didnt make up non-existent reason for an invasion, you did.
Radical Islam didnt pull other country's into that war which got my brother and nefue killed, YOU *snip* DID! Two perfectly normal young boys on the other side of the planet, never been to America, getting brutily slaughtered because your government putted pressure on mine by saying that we had to go to war to because otherwise we are with terrorists. Just like you are saying to me because i disagree with that war.

We all know the famous speech from Bush dont we? "If you are not with us, you are against us!" Well those words were the words that got us into that war and that got my brother and nefue killed so please dont you ever f*ck*ng call me a terrorist-sider or whatever again

And about your last words:
Generosity of America got us to live everywhere and be helped?
Man we cant live anywhere because there is no safe place on this planet anymore, because of you guys.
The only country i should be thankfull to is my own, Holland. They got me to live here in Amsterdam, free, safe, and without fears. Which is over now because islamic people feel like they are the jews of 1940-1945, only in another time. And boy do they fight against it. As a white person in that war you cant even look at them anymore because they hate us now. It aint safe anymore, again, because of the USA.

And ask yourself why so much places in, for example New York, have dutch names. New York for example WAS DUTCH once so dont tell me i have to thank you guys for the life, wealth, freedom and happiness im living. Before America even existed we didnt need you for our lifestyle and wealth, and we can certainly miss you like aids nowadays. Have you ever been in Holland? if you do, compare Holland to Germany, France and England for example... we pay high taxes but you will see, notice and feel that our lifestyle here is far more higher than all those other "more powerfull and wealthier" european country's.
So no, i dont have to thank you for you american generosity, i have to thank my government for the outrageous taxes they make us pay.


Last but not least i would like to say that this isnt my opinion of American people in general, it is my opinion of your government and the people that got brainwashed by it, like this guy im quoting. I dont hate ytou guys, i hate what your government did, and so should you all...

[edit on 11/5/08 by TheNetherlands]

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 12/5/2008 by khunmoon]



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