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Saddam's jail diary reveals AIDS fear from americans

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posted on May, 11 2008 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky


What's your point? If Smith&Wesson sells you a handgun that you use to murder your family, who is at fault, you or S&W?


When S&W knowingly sells guns to serial killers, Then invades the private homes of those they sold the guns to, Kills the owner, Their family, and then liberates? anyone who managed to survive, Then you may have a point...

But until then you don't, We sold Saddam that crap KNOWING FULL WELL WHAT HE WAS ALL ABOUT, In doing so we gave up or right to **** when he used them...


[edit on 11-5-2008 by C0le]




posted on May, 13 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by Ruggeder
 



Originally posted by Ruggeder
As far as ignorant chicken hawks like a particular member on this thread with a plane as an avatar, there just scared cowards. They will never do anything or say anything against there leaders because they protect all cowards from having to live, protect, or think for themselves, and life is easier that way. So personal attacks against people like that will never work, because there wrapped up in a protective blanket from there governments lies.


I think you are referring to me. I use a Raptor as an avvie. So I don't understand why you just didn't use my username? I also don't understand your reasons for launching unprovoked attacks against me. Care to elaborate?



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by AceWombat04
 



Originally posted by AceWombat04
I would never call someone a moron, and I don't see people in that way.

As for obvious stupidity, I don't equate being incorrect (if they are indeed incorrect - which I don't know) with being stupid. There's a difference in my opinion.

As for objectivity, I believe it's possible to arrive at an objective truth within the realm of known quantities and variables. The problem is that I also acknowledge the very real possibility that I don't (and perhaps can't) know everything, and that there may therefore exist unknown quantities and variables. That essentially means that in the grand scheme of things, at least where I am personally concerned, it may be impossible to arrive at an absolute, objective reality. Any observable evidence that I perceive still relies on my perceptions, which may in turn be inaccurate or incorrect, however improbable that may seem to me or anyone else.

Excellent points, AceWombat.
Your entire post deserves a star, which I gave it, and applause from the moderators, imo.

And just disregard that ignorant image of a "diplomat". That was rude and unprovoked.


Originally posted by AceWombat04
Now, granted, I see nothing wrong with introducing evidence contrary to one's belief or opinion. However, many in this thread did so while simultaneously attacking people's intelligence, person, and/or dignity. I see no cause or call for that, personally. It seems entirely possible to me for people to share their views (and evidence) with respect and - dare I say it? - compassion.
.
Mea culpa. I have been guilty of this also. The re-integration of politics into ATS brought this on, as I predicted. There are certain people who cannot accept another set of views without resorting to ad hominem attacks. Politics, even though "fuzzy", is a lot more pragmatic and concrete than beliefs in ufo's or aliens. Politics is based many times upon facts and reason, measurable metrics. That's why the two groups have such problems communicating.

Again, I welcome and appreciate your post. It would be great if everyone were as openminded and tolerant as you.





Originally posted by AceWombat04
I did not, as you suggest, "presume that the combatants would welcome and appreciate my even-handed and eminently reasonable mediation."

Well, some of us did appreciate your "even-handed and eminently reasonable mediation."



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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For one thing, why are people arguing with foreigners? There opinions of the country doesn't matter, there foreign. I like Japan, and watching Newcastle United games in England, but guess what, my opinion of those countries DOESN'T MATTER. I'm not English, and I'm not Japanese, otherwise i would change a ton of things in both places, but I can't because I'm not from there. If your not from the country at hand, your opinion is meaningless. To tell the Japanese for instance, that there pointless racism is disgusting and should be changed is true, but IT DOESN'T MATTER I'm not Japanese, so my opinion doesn't matter. To tell the Australians they should all be in jail for raping, killing and stealing the children of aborigines might be true, but IT DOESN'T MATTER I'm not from there. I could mention every country on earth in this. Just like America has no right to tell Muslim's they can't sell there daughters for sex, or force them into bee keeper outfits, or stoning rape victims as the guilty party, or raping young boys because being openly gay is a death sentence so they rape children that can't say anything, or any of the other things they do that baffle anyone with half a brain like they live 1000 years ago, it's there country, so stop telling people in there own country how to live. I never get what foreigners don't get about it. I'm glad you like American clothes and movies and whatever, but your not American, your opinion on it is worthless.
Do england stop Chinese sweat shops? No they buy cheap Chinese crap like everyone else, so until your country, whichever it is, changes, shut up, your opinion is meaningless, your ideas might be right, or even should be done, but do it in your OWN country first, then spread out and try to spread your ideas from that. While I in fact have many countries I like visiting, Australia, Japan, England, Ireland, Italy, China, and others, let's stop pretending those countries are blameless, or are doing anything that America isn't because those are fictitious lies. I'm not the type of America is the best!!!!! type of person at all, because it isn't, but I am sick of people in glass houses throwing stones because it's popular, or because they have no idea what there talking about.

Sorry for the edits my paragraphs weren't working.

[edit on 5-13-2008 by Ruggeder]

[edit on 5-13-2008 by Ruggeder]

[edit on 5-13-2008 by Ruggeder]



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by Ruggeder
 


I think this is total bull#s because what foreigners are saying about America is because of their "abroad-politics" or how do you call it in english.
We have criticism on what they do in and to other country's .

Like i give a damn # about how they are stripping away the american citizen's rights, its your own fault because you people dont think for yourselfs. But what they to to other country's and people in other country's i do have the damn RIGHT to have criticism on that, because im a citizen of Earth and it affects us all.

If you guys just stay between own borders you wil not hear a thing from me, cause i dont give a damn what happens in America, i am way passed that fase, because its your own fault.

Do you know what we, dutch people, would have done to our president if he did what Bush is doing the last 8 years? We would have thrown him out office and killed him, or at least thrown him in prison.

But you, you guys defend bush, the guys that destroyed the beautifull USA like it was before, he made sure the world hates America, he is stripping everyone in the USA from his/her rights and he is lying to you all... but you guys wont see because you have not learned to think for yourselfs. The White House does the thinking and 90 percent of american people i OK with that.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 05:02 AM
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I'm not a bush supporter, and I would love to see him put in prison. The fact is, you wouldn't be able to do that anymore then the what, 65-70% of Americans who would support that can, because the government decides what it does, they are above you in everything, you oppose them and they'll throw you in jail or you'll disappear, and if the dutch had someone like bush in charge, he would change your laws and you would be powerless the same as we are. The fact is that the people in charge can do whatever they want, they can rig elections, and tell you what candidates you get to "vote" for. My friend went to school in Denmark, they have a lot of stupid rules and burnt out idiots everywhere, but my opinion, and his, is still meaningless because we aren't dutch, and the fact remains that Dutch foreign policy isn't decided by the dutch anymore then American policy is decided by Americans, it's decided by the elite who decide what you get to think, wake up. Just like the 75% of the English who hate the European union, guess what union there in now, thats right the European one. They didn't want it, but the elites did, so there in it. They don't want there money to be the euro either, but it will be soon, its always in there parliament, and when the elite want it, it will be so. Believe me I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. I wish Bush never got in, i even didn't vote for him twice, but since he owned the machines that put his name no matter who you hit, without a paper trail, what am i going to do? They control the police, military, everything, same as the dutch government, you would be completely powerless. I saw recently the dutch, particularly Frans van Anraat was sentenced to life in prison for selling Iraq chemical weapons to murder thousands of innocence. Are the entire Dutch people responsible? Of course not, he did it himself, just like the elites do what they do themselves, should America condemn all Dutch because of Frans? You can't honestly believe what your saying is true can you?



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 03:34 AM
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I dont condemn american people, i condemn american politics who put themselfs above every law. And i dont have a good word for the people who support that guy, and, sadly enough, there are much more bush-supporters then people like you and i. And why, only because he is the president and you guys are getting indoctrinated with patriotism since birth.

And yeah, i can only agree about what you say about the elite.
Two years ago there was to be a European Constitution to be put in place, making Europe instead of a continent one big country. Like the United States of Europe to keep it simple.

The French voted NO, and we, the Dutch voted no. After the french people saying no to the constitution we could have saved it by voting for it. instead we killed it by voting against it. Now, 2 years later, they changed some pages in the constitution and gave it another name and they just silently accepted that constitution. Nothing in the press about it, no opportunity to vote, NOTHING. They just accepted it only now every country keeps his own anthem and own flag. Same with the Euro. The dutch people didnt want the Euro, the government didnt care and now prices of everything have doubled while our salary's were halved.

So yes, i totally agree with you, but you cant act like Bush isnt part of the elite and cant do anything about it. His father is part of the elite, and he himself is too.

And, elite or not, it does not take away our rights to comment on things happening in other country's just because we dont live there. And thats why i responded to you, you talked like we had to shut up because we are not Americans. Well, we are all living on this planet so if America does things concerning the whole world then we DO have the right to complain. Even if we cant do anything about it. I guess its called FREEDOM.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



They are just an anti-American cesspool of corruption.
They mean nothing. Their opinion means nothing.


Yeah anyone that doesn't let America have it's way with the world is an anti-American, a dissident, a traitor, terrorist and a snitch right?

The amount of ignorance and blind patriotism your posts reveal says more than you could sum up about yourself in a eulogy. You accept no one else's opinion or view that is different from your Republican, ultra-nationalistic mindset and you make no attempt to empathize or at least understand difference.

Congratulations.
Stalin, Hitler, Hussein, Pol Pot, Idi Amin and Joseph Goebbels all thought much like you did, and see how they ended up.
So blinded and oblivious by their own views they couldn't reason with anyone who didn't share them. They lived fun lives too
.


When it comes to our national security … we can do what we want.
We could never provide ‘Proper justification’ that would satisfy anti-american yahoos anyways.


"National Security Memo 5432" - (footnote)

Footnote: As we define national security to encompass any broad breach of integrity of anything relating to America, it's people or it's values so we can thus use this to justify wide-ranging Imperialistic Foreign Policy Goals.

In essence: If you breathe a bad word against America we have the right to invade you.

The Bush Admin couldn't fool a cage of Chimps with the evidence it brought before the world against Saddam Hussein.

Phantom WMD's that never even existed (or if they did, made in the good 'ol US of A) and a link to Al-Qaeda that never turned up.
Last time I checked America was or at least claimed to be a democratic, civilized nation that followed the principles of Common Law.

You know, like "innocent until proven guilty", "beyond reasonable doubt and moral certainty", etc... Ring any bells Mr. Armchair Warrior?
No, thought not.
At least you admit America is an aggressive thug rather than try to desperately defend it like so many other Republican hawks out there.


So what? Our national security comes before what other countries want.


Oh right, I forgot who I was talking to here.
Hi Mr. O'Reilly.



If we wanted to invade and take over oil wells we would have kept the Kuwaiti ones that we liberated 15 years ago .. and we’d be taking over Venezuela. Venezuela is closer and easier.


Why bother with Venezuela's or Kuwait's measly reserves, when you had the world's second largest reserve of oil surrounded on all sides by American Bases and Troops, poised to commence their "revenue-hunt" for the neck-deep-in-Oil friends of the White House?

Iraq was a cakewalk and look at the record profits Bush & Co. are making today. Actions speak clearer than words. You need to do some serious reading.


Plunder their natural resources. That’s funny.
The oil companies aren’t making record oil profits by stealing oil from Iraq.
They are making record oil profits by stealing money from US.


Why would they steal from the well-regulated, well-insured and well-guarded reserves of the US when there is over a quadrillion dollars in Oil nestled in the chaotic state that is now Iraq... ripe for plucking?

Oh yeah maybe their afraid the Iraqi Corruption Commission might catch them


Your arguments couldn't stand up against a 10 year old. Seriously, take the blindfold off mate.


America will definitely continue to influence other countries and situations in such a manner that is best for our country. Try to comprehend … this is basic stuff … EVERY country in the world that is a 1st or 2nd world country tries to manipulate the world situation to it’s own advantage. We aren’t alone. Deal with it.


Correction:

America will continue to impose it's hegemony on the world and deal with nations who refuse to lick US ass and bow down to the Fuhrer and his cronies.
That's what you meant.
The best for you country?

Here's a little news flash. The people who run your country are big business; the powerful, rich and influential the well established and well-connected families, the people who want nothing more than gain for their personal interests.
Power corrupts all.

The whole "democracy" thing is a farce, a happy, sugar-coated front that distracts people while those with real power use America as a vehicle to further their own sheer greed and selfish interests.

I don't see too many other countries instigating wars of aggression with zero basis or proof, to simply plunder resources it doesn't have.
Aren't too many burglary states out there in the world apart from America.


Oh brother. America has had nukes for 60 years and used two – in a defense mode – to end a war that was waged against us. We definitely CAN be trusted with them. Iran can not.


In defense? Japan attacked the US mainland did it? Japan killed American civilians and threatened total destruction of US cities?
I don't recall those things happening.

The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are probably the two most glaring examples of terrorism in world history.

Mass attacks on non-combatants and civilians in order to instill fear and threaten and force the Japanese government into surrender.

Textbook definition of terrorism any way you look it. Killing the defenseless for political purposes. Like it or not buddy, some of the worst, most despicable acts in history have been committed by people with the best intentions.

Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder.
America cannot be trusted deciding who's friend and who's foe let alone being in possession of Nuclear Weapons with the potential to obliterate the world.
20 years ago Saddam Hussein was an Ally. Today his dead.
30 years ago Iran was an Ally. Today you want to nuke them?

Hypocrisy knows no bounds within America Foreign Policy.


I’m all for cutting them off
and letting them wallow in their own cesspool of the ‘religion-of-peace’.


Lol... you watch the news much?
What the hell do you think Iraq is? A regular Utopia?

The snatch and grab job going on over there is no different from a run-of-the-mil Liquor Store robbery. The only difference is the scale of the crime.



… is radical Islam


Wow! A Western-sponsored hate site, how authoritatively convincing...

My is this where you get your information?



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 



If you think that radical Islamics who are living by the Quran are peaceful … then you need to ‘get the hell off the computer and travel more’.


Did I say radical Islamic Fundamentalists? NO.

Muslims in the Middle East have lived and will continue to live as they see fit according to the Quran for centuries to come.
I doubt any amount of bombs, propaganda or sabre-rattling from a deranged Texan 10,000 miles away will change the habits of thousands of consecutive generations of people.
This sad error in judgment from the chickenhawk-stuffed Bush Administration is exactly what fuels worldwide America hatred and defiance of it's hegemony. The belief that is has a right to "liberate" and impose it's will on other nations.
Lol... "liberate."
I bet the Iraqis are feeling so much more safer now with Saddam gone, an American-backed puppet installed and bombs going off left, right and center around them.

If you think the powers to be in America are peaceful, tolerant and selflessly compassionate people you must be living in a bubble or your mom's basement. The latter is most likely I'm assuming.


They ARE whackjobs and terrorists .. no need to put it in quotes.
Newsflash … they were mass murdering long before Bush43 got in office.
They were killing each other and taking infidel slaves long before America was even born.


Newsflash:

America was killing and plundering other nations long before Islamic Radicalism swept through the Middle East and started making headlines.
You ever take any history lessons?

Iran 1953: Overthrow of President Mossadegh?
The Bay of Pigs?
Guatemala 1954?
Nicaragua 1981-1990?

Nah didn't think so, the Republican mind seems to immediately block out or regress any memories or knowledge of US wrongdoings throughout history and pretend they never happened.
Ignorance may be bliss, but dementia is not a laughing matter.


I don’t care how they feel. Radical Islamics just want me converted or dead.
Appeasement just means the croc bites the useful idiot last.


Precisely why America is in the shape it's in now.
Congratulations for proving rabid bigotry feeds on dumb conformity....

Here.. have a lolly kid.


[edit on 15/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 06:55 AM
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Godfather, just stop it man, it doesnt work.
I tried to explain to but then they just tell me i am siding with terrorists.

the #s got my brother and nefue killed, who aent american and have nothing to do with their fake wars, but hey, i am siding with terrorists
.

They wont listen, they are from the great, magnificent, powerfull America. The world police everybody has to listen to and bow down to. I am not going to participate in such discussions any more, i wont let the negative energy that frustrates me get to me anymore.

2 familymembers died FOR AMERICA, whilst we arent Americans, But we are siding with terrorists, thats what they say to thank us.

In fact, those words were used by Bush to get my country to participate in the war. If you arent with us, you are against us, everybody remembers those words. How evil must one b.., never mind, i feel the frustration rising already, im outta here.




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