The Iraqi teenage girl killed for loving a British soldier

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Honour killing is NOT a religious thing.

AMEN!

This man deserves to get beaten up right about now.

You think that will fix him, huh?

Make him angrier is what it will probably do, and what will that solve?

How about this: he needs to be told in a loving voice by every person he meets for the rest of his life that they forgive him for what he did.

He would then be made to feel guilt, and guilt brings about repentance, and through repentance comes self-forgiveness and healing.

Constant and loving forgiveness would be the best way to hurt him, shame him, break him down and build him back up into something worthy of the title “human.”

Really think about it. There is more to this Christian idea of loving forgiveness than people realize at first glance, that God he is a shrewd one.

Or we could just do as you say, as the man himself did, and get mad and cause more violence. That will make things right for sure, huh?


[edit on 29-4-2008 by cavscout]

How very intriguing...
all this complain and riots and protest
.
You could hav complained about Saddam in the UN...if that's
what you want. Using politically correct words/phrases.
why didn't you made a deal with Saddam
if it was so complicated?
.
btw, do you know Tarik Aziz is to go to court?
I interested to know who is next?
.
surely you're the ones who shot yourselves in the foot?



[edit on 29-4-2008 by SnowWhite]

BTW, why all the references to Americans and Bush? This was a BRITISH soldier. Airstrip One hasn’t joined the US quite yet.

It doesnt matter, everything ALWAYS reverts back to it being an Americans fault.

Anyway, I always find it a little funny that when something like this happens in a Muslim community anywhere in the world or a Muslim country, there will ALWAYS be someone that says that its not a religious thing.
Soo why dont we here this happening in a Christian or Jewish based culture, country or community?

This is from the Iraqi Police Sgts mouth....

said Sgt Ali Jabbar of Basra police. 'You are in a Muslim society and women should live under RELIGIOUS laws.'

Yea, keep trying to defend that incredibly peaceful and family oriented religion that claims to cherish their women..

reply to post by SnowWhite

We did complain about him at the UN, for years.

We did make deals with him that he violated, for years.

Just a note, I am not condoning the war on these accounts, being against this war is one of the defining points of my personality.

I just thought your ignorance should be denied.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Anyway, I always find it a little funny that when something like this happens in a Muslim community anywhere in the world or a Muslim country, there will ALWAYS be someone that says that its not a religious thing.

It isn’t a religious thing, it is a human thing. Humans have been killing each other in rage ever since Cain killed his brother.

It is the religion, however, that is being used as an excuse not to prosecute his savage for the murder of his child.

The man getting off for religious honor killing is like someone in the US getting of on an insanity defense. He didn’t do this for God anymore than most people murder because they are insane.

It is a copout, and you are feeding it.

Please, don’t think I say this in defense of Islam, I think it is a vile and disgusting affront to God. Even true Satan-worshipers don’t claim to respect and love Christ while denying him.

Soo why dont we here this happening in a Christian or Jewish based culture, country or community?

Crack open a western history book and ask yourself if that is a door you really want to open.

Besides, it does. I can think of a few times in recent memory that a mother killed her children for religious reasons here in the US. One drowned at least 3 of children in the bathtub, another drove her child into a river.

It happens, the difference is that these American women REALLY DID think they were killing in the name of Lord and this Iraqi man was just pissed when he killed his daughter for not listening to him and is now getting off on religious grounds.




[edit on 29-4-2008 by cavscout]

Originally posted by cavscout
reply to post by SnowWhite

 

We did make deals with him that he violated, for years.

.
one can always begin a new deal of champagne and card games...
(beer makes one fat)

Of course honor killing isn't a muslim thing, except for all the honor killings that Muslims carry out. Yes, and those who say these things can be trusted to tell us the truth about Islam. What 12 ton elephant are you talking about.

The thing is, I don't want any of these people living next door. These people are a threat to all people who believe in justice, and see the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and killing one's family member in such an honor killing is straight up evil, and I don't care what claim people have about respecting the culture of others. This type of evil is right up there with the NAZI's.

Originally posted by poet1b

This type of evil is right up there with the NAZI's.

Funny you should say that.
You know during WW2 if a French girl got pregnate by a German soldier.
The resistance might very well kill her or the baby or both.
Nothing new here.
In war it happens.
A shame yes , but an old one at that.

reply to post by TimeTracker


Oh, I didnt know the Iraqi girl was pregnant!

Please share your source on that little gem, or at least explain the relevance.

Also, do you know of a case where the French Restance fighter who killed a woman pregnant with a German child was the Girl's own father?

Not exactly apples to apples.



[edit on 29-4-2008 by cavscout]

reply to post by cavscout


Oh jeeezzz!
Your right not an exact analogy.
Just pointing out that in history this happens quite a bit.
Probably in just about every war.
As far as the father killing his daughter no that seems to be a middle eastern thing.
If i offended or seemed trifle towards the matter sorry.
Guess you didn't see my little sad face.

Originally posted by cavscout
reply to post by TimeTracker

 

Oh, I didnt know the Iraqi girl was pregnant!

.
What if tourist get some gal pregnant?
.
perhaps they were planning to migrate?
.
perhaps Al-Jazeera should hav mor belly dancer commercials?
Will tis start a regional war?



[edit on 29-4-2008 by SnowWhite]

Originally posted by cavscout
reply to post by spacedoubt

 

BIG difference.

One being instead of actively murdering their daughter in a fit of rage over her disobedience, the parents in the article you linked to actively prayed for the wellbeing of their daughter, hoping she would recover and get well. Agree with their methods or not you must see the difference between actively seeking to harm and actively (although ineffectively) seeking to help.

Another difference is that in Iraq this man was within the law and his murder was condoned by the local police, who released and defended him, blaming it on the girl for not following the law. In Wisconsin, the parents are facing 25 years in prison!

How in the world can you claim the two incidences are even remotely alike other than the death of a daughter? Do you draw your correlation because you perceive both deaths to be caused by religion? If so, you would do well to consider that the death of the girl in Iraq was most likely NOT religious in nature! The father got angry with his daughter refusing to listen and had a temper tantrum and killed her. As the father of a teenage daughter, I can tell you that I have been so mad I could have just about strangled her a few times. The difference is that the Iraqi man DID strangle her, and has the law to back him up.

He can blame it on religion and “honor” all he wants but at the end of the day it was just uncontrolled rage and MURDER as opposed to possible ignorance or stupidity in the case in Wisconsin.

First of all, thanks for tackling my question, I though it might have gone unnoticed.

Religion and "honor"
Different in some ways, the same in others.
Both are belief systems that tie groups of people together (or rip them apart).They are both cultural.

The Wisconsin girl with diabetes is dead. Through ignorance.
They had certainly heard of Doctors.

The girl in Iraq, is dead. Again, through ignorance.

Both families allowed a person to die. For reasons only understood by a certain cultural subset. Both were denying something they considered evil. In Wisconsin the evil was in the form of Spirits, in Iraq, the evil was an infidel, or outsider.
The familiy's behavior was based on fear. The fear of what others within their belief system might think of them. so they acted accordingly.

Both were wrong. The Iraqi killers are lucky enough live amongst like minded people. Who fear the same things. Local officials are either complicit, or fear retribution. So they do nothing.

They've both taken certain aspects of their religions, and perverted them.

reply to post by TimeTracker


No, I didn't know that, and I seriously doubt that it is true. Have you ever watched the movie Casablanca where the french girl starts dating a German. It was frowned upon, but not viewed as a reason for murder. You might also want to look up some information on spies. Try another excuse. You would find that if during either WW, the family of any French girl who was murdered because she was dating a German, would have sought justice, and sought to have the murderer convicted for his or her crime.

Also, as I pointed out, these honor killings are taking place in Muslim families and communities that have migrated to other countries, and are far away from any war. Then again, maybe us westerner's are mistaken to think that Muslim who migrate to our nations come in peace.

There were lots of French women/girls tortured, raped and excecuted after the Germans retreated in WWII - thats what happens to collaborators when an occupying army leaves.

reply to post by poet1b


Casablanca? made during the war?
Yeah that would show what really went on.
I have seen actual news footage of French girls getting thier heads shaved and being beaten by French mobs during the war. And that was on film so let your imagination do the rest as to what happened after the camera was turned off.
This also happened on an even more massive scale in Korea and Vietnam.
Where the hell have you people been!

Ps. since we're talking movies here lol.
Look up Das Boot has a refference in there of a mother's baby being killed if found out to be german. It was made in the 90's and is not propeganda like Cassablanca .

[edit on 30-4-2008 by TimeTracker]

Here are some pictures of French women that had their heads shaved and were beaten and imprisoned for consorting with the enemy during ww2.
It shows no executions. But it happened in some cases.

www.ushmm.org...

[edit on 30-4-2008 by TimeTracker]

reply to post by TimeTracker


geez who cares, youre comparing apples to oranges here... sure on THIS occasion she happened to be seeing a British soldier but what about the estimated 4,999 other cases that will happen this year..

The United Nations Population Fund estimates that the annual worldwide total of honor-killing victims may be as high as 5,000 women

One example is the current trend in the Iraqi city of Basra, where authorities report that around 15 female corpses are discovered monthly; the victims are believed to have been killed by groups who seek to enforce sanctioned behavior on women.

and here are some of the primary reasons that a Woman may be targeted..

An honor killing or honour killing[1] is generally a punitive murder, committed by members of a family against a female member of their family whom the family and/or wider community believes to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman is usually targeted for: refusing an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce — even from an abusive husband — or committing adultery. These killings result from the perception that any behavior of a woman that "dishonors" her family is justification for a killing that would otherwise be deemed murder.[2]

I guess it fair to point out that this isnt exclusive to muslims ..

UNICEF has reported that in India, more than 5,000 brides are killed annually because their marriage dowries are considered insufficient. Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch, says that these killings are similar to the killings in countries where Islam is practiced, because they have a similar dynamic in that the women are killed by male family members and the crimes are perceived as excusable or understandable.[13]

but the majority are muslim and they do use Islamic law to justify it..

Source-Wiki

reply to post by TimeTracker


I guess when you posted this you didn't think I would follow the link.

What you have is a story about a collaborator, as in spy, being executed by the authorities, which is basically calling an apple an orange, sorry, but not true at all.

In fact, what you link does show is how much more civilized the French are than Muslims. You link shows that most of the collaborators were publically humiliated, not murdered or executed, and the few stories of consorting, women who had sex with Germans during the war, had their heads shaved when they were punished. There is not one story of a French girl being murdered by her father for falling in love, or even having sex, with a German during the war.

Maybe the problem is you can't see the difference between murder and shaving a woman's head.

And as it pointed out above, Muslims are carrying out this horrible crime of honor murder all over the world, not just in war zones.

reply to post by poet1b


Whatever.
Collaberator does not always mean spy.
And in those cases was not always the case.
You go on and believe what you want to believe.
Keep your head in Cassablanca lol!
Like others have said this has really nothing to do with the story.
All i was trying to show is war brings out the worst on both sides.
And personally i could give a flip if you followed my link or not.
I don't think i would have put it there if i did not intend for you to follow.
Now go on and stick your head back in a black and white flick ROFL!

reply to post by TimeTracker


Are you serving cheese with that whine?

Good art accurately portrays real life, that is the heart of a good story. Casablanca considered by many to be the greatest movie of all time has a very legitimate claim to being great art. It is in fact about love during war. I don't know what problem you have with the movie Casablanca, except it shows your claims to be wrong.

You made a claim, and the evidence you provided in fact proved you wrong. French women who had relations with Germans during the war had their heads shaved when they were punished, they weren't murdered by their fathers.

Honor killings are the most horrendous culturally embraced activity that I have ever heard of. On second thought, maybe the Muslim religion is even more insane than devil worship.