Legal questions follow polygamist raid

It’s getting more and more dangerous to be different in the USA. The gov (with the aid of the controlled MSM) seems to use weirdness as an excuse to do whatever the heck they want to people. I’m still waiting to see some proof of actual crimes by these people, as opposed to the innuendo and rumor that that we’ve gotten so far.

In Texas, it’s legal to marry at 16 with parental consent. So show me the pregnant 13 year olds. Show me the teenage males who are living on the street because they got kicked out for being unwanted competition for the patriarchs. Show me don’t tell me. Until I see some proof, I see this as just more state child snatching on a colossal scale. IMO, 99% of the time a child is better off with their parent, even if troubled, then they are with the state.

reply to post by Brothers


Serial monogamy does the same thing to a community that polygamy did to communities. Dead beat dads who produce numerous children out of wedlock are probably even worse than either polygamists or serial monogamists. The issue is not if the men have comitted polygamy ;that is not what will burn the men on child molestation .They will burn if they had sex with young girls. I do not believe the state made the case that all of the parents abused girls sexually so removing all of the children was wrong. In my opinion this raid is designed to desensitize people to raids in which fema takes all the children from a school and moves them to a camp and refuses to tell the mothers where their children have been taken. Be warned!

reply to post by marg6043


Marg this is an area I have to agree with the OP and not you. Something does not seem right here and I thought I was the only person who felt this way. Now I have 2 girls and I would never think about forcing them into marriage or having sex at 13. With that being said to just mass prosecute without individual trials is no better than rounding up mass jews during wwII or mass japanese here in the states during wwII. This almost seems like Waco all over. An all out military style attack over some gun violations. We all know how that turned out. These people like other groups like Amish and the Waco clan do not buy our main stream life and this main stream life this government tries to push on us. Its funny I was watching Fox news and one of the reporters made this quote to me ill try to find it but she says "We are going to take the women and try to bring them into the main stream" Define main stream for me please. What government slavery? Whoever is found gulty for giving their daughters away should face harsh punishment but to punish in mass before a trial is no different than guantamino bay.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
In spite of a search warrant tainted by a false witness (the "Sarah" who doesn't exist), no actual specific evidence of abuse, or any unwilling participants in this polygamous compound...

See, this really bothers me.

And I believe it bothers others as well. When Sarah couldn't be produced, all of a sudden there's a news report stating (on CBS Evening News), that well...they also had an inside informnant or some such thing, on the inside. I know I cannot be the only one who caught that.

I have watched this train wreck of our country very closely. And I'm quite sure that if they had ever had such a thing, they would have been crowing about it from the beginning instead of supposed info from "Sarah".

Marg, you are my friend, but I just have to say that this is a country of laws, or at least it used to be. Those laws had a basis in our Constitution. We each have our own moralities, however, we cannot impose our own on others. If we do that then there is no freedom of choice. Futhermore, if we allow the Constitutional rights of anyone to be infringed, then watch out cause sooner or later everyone's rights will be next.

I say, if there is any real evidence that wrong took place (as right now the story has been rather one-sided), then prove it on a case by case basis. The laws are supposed to be for everyone. If there was abuse of the children then yes, take them away....but prove it first.

reply to post by ShadowEyes


You said it well a star for you that is what I was trying to say above but you said it much more eloquent.

reply to post by ShadowEyes


You are right to call what is happening in Texas a train wreck on one of the conservative websights they are bragging that for years the rich (oil)men have flown planes over the complex spying on the people of this group and many state laws were changed by a state congress man from the area, after the group moved in inorder to put the group on the wrong side of the law.The same poster on the conservative websight was also bragging that some of those who are sending the spy planes over the compound may become vigilantes if they are not able to make any of the charges against those people stick. I hope he is full of air ,because if not Texas is really starting to turn resemble Lord of the Flies.

Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by ShadowEyes

 

You are right to call what is happening in Texas a train wreck on one of the conservative websights they are bragging that for years the rich (oil)men have flown planes over the complex spying on the people of this group and many state laws were changed by a state congress man from the area, after the group moved in inorder to put the group on the wrong side of the law.The same poster on the conservative websight was also bragging that some of those who are sending the spy planes over the compound may become vigilantes if they are not able to make any of the charges against those people stick. I hope he is full of air ,because if not Texas is really starting to turn resemble Lord of the Flies.

Its funny you mention this I heard from a friend come big boys over there have wanted that land and they have refused to sell the land....I guess the big boys will get their land after all. I knew something stunk about this whole deal and that is why you cant judge....like someone else said produce me 1 13 year old who was pregnant. 16 is legal in TX show me 1 13 year old. Something really stinks about this.

This whole ordeal is insane.

An entire community invaded and rounded up. Then the children separated from adults. The children taken by the state in mass. A whole community guilty by having one thing in common, their beliefs. Then the whole thing began by false information.

Where have I seen this before. Germany during the Third Reich.

What happend here was a massive violation of people's rights.

If Law enforcement raided any community, I can about guarantee they would find cases of abuse. Does that mean you condemn a whole community for the actions of a few?

Should we round up all the people in a (insert religion or ethnic group) community for a few who commit crimes?

This is insane.

Teenage mothers? There's plenty of them go visit a public high school or even middle schools these days. Single teenage mothers on drugs among disfunctional families can be found across the nation.

I'm not advocating Polygamy or Mormonism. I am Jewish. I will say this about Polygamy. IF your going to attack polygamists and arranged underaged marriages, please dont single out Mormons.

Arranged Polygamist under age marriages are a way of life from Morocco to India for hundreds of millions of people, Muslims. This goes back to all the way to beginning of Islam.

In the United States we do not legally have polygamist underage marriages, but we do have a severely promiscuous underage population that uses drugs and has lots of abortions and babies to single disfunctional parents.

My point is that the problems we already have are probably worse than what was going on in this community and we need to focus our resources on important issues facing our society rather than targeting an entire community over something that should be dealt with on a case by case basis using only local authorities.



[edit on 26/4/08 by MikeboydUS]

I haven't been following this case too closely, but let me ring in here with a few things.

First, there seems to be a serious miscarriage of justice here. Why should this case be any different than if the government swarmed into any midwestern town and took away all the women and children to be re-educated in the ways of the "mainstream"?

Second, I have seen no proof of the allegations against anyone. What are the exact criminal charges that anyone is being held on at this point? If there is an informant, then they must have presented their report, and it should have gone to a grand jury before the raid.

This stinks of being just another case of the system flaunting what they can do while telling the people that they can do nothing about it, because they have the other half of the people in this country brainwashed and distracted. Really, how much worse does it ahve to get before we see that we are already living in a fascist state? At this point we are not far at all from where Nazi Germany was not long before the bombs started falling. Someone please tell me, the difference between then and now practically speaking.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Something really stinks about this and Mikeboyd above said it about as perfect as it is going to be said. Bring some charges and there better of been evidence upon going in because I dont even think they way they went into this whole deal was legal. The mass pulling of these children keep in mind there are a lot of boys in that grouping also and the problem say the CPS is with the girls. In TX you can be married at 16 so 15 14 13 you are in trouble but 16 and above it is legal. More so like Mike said there are plenty of 13 and 14 year old girls in the "Main Stream" that are pregnant do we go after their parents too? Something really stinks here.....

reply to post by marg6043

Originally posted by marg6043
I don't see anything wrong with taking children from this harems that the only thing is teaching the children is that they can get away with this type of behavior in which males can have all the women they want.

I think you have to give these people some credit. I give them credit for having morals and teaching them. Just because they aren't your morals doesn't mean that they are immoral. Morals are a hard thing to come by in this society.

From what I saw the wives all seemed fairly faithful to their husbands. With divorce rates being something like 50%+ I am not going to bash a system that for some reason works. I am a guy though, so the thought of multiple wives intrigues me (if you can support them all and everyone is happy). Don't bash these people for being polygamous.

I also don't agree with you saying they teach the young men they can have any women they want. If anything they are teaching them that they can have several, but not until they are married. Kudos to them. Thats better than teaching the young men that they should go out and have sex with as many women as possible, start a little black book, collect pictures, sow their wild oats, put notches in their bed posts, or have one last night of fun before they get married. Look at the media and what our popular cultures pushes. Is pop culture education really worse than teaching that men can several women they marry or do we teach a little of the same/worse?

I am sorry but is not way that any of those children living in these family harems would not be influenced by the promiscuity that the ruling male force over the younger girls in their groups.

Promiscuity? My god! Ok, say one man has two wives. The children will have two mommies. To me that is better than a mommy, a daddy, a step dad, a step mom, and four step siblings. I hate to break it to you, but the USA is not all that moral. Look around. How do you think it is for children who see their parents cheat on each other? The only difference between pop culture and them is that they all got together and admitted to what they're doing.

It seems that communal sex is allowed freely and in the name of the God they worship.

If anybody see this as right then I guess we in this nation are truly without morals.

To me your intolerant raving is what is wrong with this country. Why attack these people? Say your words and move on. Just say I don't agree with their ways, especially the underage sex, and move on. Why use all the sarcasm and the negative terms like harems?

Think of their them as having an alternative lifestyle. It doesn't work for most, but it works for some. Once again, I do not stand for the underage sex/marriage thing but other than that back off.

[edit on 26-4-2008 by Draves]

reply to post by mybigunit


I wonder if any of these marriages in question were between teens.

[edit on 4/26/0808 by jackinthebox]

A land grab.

Doesn't that just drive the nail home?

reply to post by Matyas


I think there's more to it than that. The former leader was on the run from the FBI for years, and the sect has been under close scrutiny the whole time.

www.fbi.gov...

Now I don't know wether any of the accusations or true or not, but the way this all went down just doesn't add up. It just leads me to believe that they have been using MSM propoganda to go after these people for a long time, because they are a threat to the mainstream simply by not wanting to be a part of it.

According to the state of Texas marrage law. Anyone at the age of 14-17 has to get parent premission to get marry. But if someone is over the age 18 and was marring someone under 18. They will both have to get both premission from the court and parents. And they can't be no more then 10 years of age apart from each other.

I just cannot seem to think we did right here. It has not been proven that the girls were abused or forced into marriage as a 13, 14, or 15 years old . Yes they do live differently but isn’t that what America was? How is this any different than what Hitler did to the Jews? There were people who thought that was fine too. It is not fine for a government of any kind to come into your home and destroy you. That is what we have going on here. I don’t believe it will end here, I believe it will only continue and get worse with each year. Till we are completely under control of the government.

These people didn’t shop in our stores or watch TV or let the government run their lives. This is why it happen. They didn’t have anything with a chip in it or fluoride or anything like this. They were self sufficient and that is no longer allowed in the USA!!!! Didn’t you know the government wants us dependent upon them which is why the whole world is going into food shortages and a recession so we come to them to be taken care of. Then they will chip you if you want their help. See the picture is bigger than what you know!!!!

Originally posted by jackinthebox...because they are a threat to the mainstream simply by not wanting to be a part of it.

As a rule, there is more than one reason to take action. Or said another way, such action serves more than one purpose. Add to this our exemplary blatent disregard of other cultures by our foreign policy. Yes, I agree, they posed a threat and had to be taken out.

I feel they should be thankful they were not gassed and burned like the victims of Waco. Perhaps monitoring cameras in the bedrooms will prevent atrocities like this from occuring again. What do you think, are we to see more of this kinder, gentler approach?

reply to post by mybigunit


I have said all along it was about the land.
I had no proof. Just a gut instinct.

Originally posted by kennethmd
According to the state of Texas marrage law. Anyone at the age of 14-17 has to get parent premission to get marry. But if someone is over the age 18 and was marring someone under 18. They will both have to get both premission from the court and parents. And they can't be no more then 10 years of age apart from each other.

Actually, that is incorrect.
Under the age of 16, you cannot marry in the State of Tx even with parental consent.

Originally posted by sizzle
Another issue that was brought up in my thread was an incident where a child in my neighborhood was taken by CPS, by accident. They had the wrong address. Rather than give the child back and move on, CPS built a case against those parents, because their utilities were temporarily turned off.
The child (white) was placed with non-english speaking Hispanic family. The child regressed and stopped talking. It took the parents over ayear to get her back.
Their lawyer hinted that there is a black market within CPS to gain control of white children (for unknown purposes).

I had an experience that was totally opposite to this. CPS was called NUMEROUS times about an unsafe, unstable, and all around terrible situation. They kept giving the so called family chance after chance and it never got better. The mother finally ended up selling the kid for drugs! It took THAT for them to finally step in. When it was painfully obvious they should have done something sooner. Thankfully the little girl is now with stable family members but the damage is done.

It seems that CPS has a hard time getting it right. They either over react or under react. As far as the legal ramifications go for the polygamis raid, I have no clue. I would asume there has to be some. But I prefer that CPS and the goverment aire on the side of caution especially if all the reports are true.