Legal questions follow polygamist raid

I'm not sure what scares me the most about this, the fact that the authorities invaded this community in a military style raid, without [it seems] no evidence whatsoever regarding abuse or laws being broken, they took every child there, and when it came time for there day in court, the ruling came down like a class action case, again without any evidence of wrong doing.

Or the fact that so many seem to support the governments position for doing this, based on what? That they are not the same religion you are? That they have chosen to live outside of mainstream America?

This is huge ladies and gentleman, if they can do this to them, how long will it take for them to do this to you, or your loved ones?

It seems the government now has complete control over these families now, while they have their kids.

It seems to me that Jeff Jakes was the criminal here, and he has been arrested.

This should have been done on a case by case basis, Not en mass like it has been done.

I guess the Constitution of the United States has been delegated down to a G-D piece of paper after all.

by any chance, that nice superhighway that they are wanting to build doesn't go straight though this compound does it?
that's my first thought...
my second thought is, well.....can't wait till these parents, or this group gets the bill for the child support of all these kids!!
sorry marge, tend to disagree with ya here. there is no way that child protective could have investigated each of these children's cases individually, and ain't no one gonna convince me that girls under the age of five were in danger of being married off, raped, and giving birth any time soon. there had the time they needed to fully investigate many of these cases, the kids weren't in any imminent danger as far as I know, unless the gov't learned of plans for mass suicide or something.
now, we have over 400 kids, finely trained in the art of being submissive, obedient drones probably, readily available for exploitation by OUR socieity....
do a search using the words foster parents and abuse..... it seems the most hideous crimes against children come out of our foster care system. and in truth, it's a money game, I think. if you are a parent, and your kids are put in foster care.....YOU pay child support! that money you are paying might make it to your kids, but then, maybe not...it might not even make it to your account, you could pay and pay, just to have them come back to you and say, you haven't paid. you might find that you kids are being denied meals on a daily basis, wearing clothing that is more like rags, and being used as slave labor, and you'll still end up paying. all across the nation, cps has a proven track record of not being able to provide care and protection to the kids they have under their wing....to lay over 400 more kids on top of their overloaded caseload? foster care should be the last resort, used in only extreme cases when the slim chance that the kids will get quality care in the foster care is a better alternative to the shoddy care the parents are giving them. it shouldn't be based solely on prank phone calls and the fact that the parents are "weird", and it definately shouldn't be done because the state needs the money or land for other purposes...which I wouldn't be surprised if this was the main underlining motivation here....
400 kids, times $200-$500 dollars each month.....that's $80,000 or more a month!

Originally posted by kennethmd
According to the state of Texas marrage law. Anyone at the age of 14-17 has to get parent premission to get marry. But if someone is over the age 18 and was marring someone under 18. They will both have to get both premission from the court and parents. And they can't be no more then 10 years of age apart from each other.

I heard the law was recently changed. I believe it is now no one under 16 - 16 with parental permission.

I still support "Do Nothing" - was not an option.

Do I support how it was done and separating children from the mothers? NO.

IMO there was enough information from former members to support Forced marriage of minor women as regular occurrence.

reply to post by LDragonFire


from what i have read----1 female judge has decided the fate of 460+ children in taking them away from their mothers----strange i never read anything yet about a trial having taken place ? and yet its seems she has already sentenced the "victims" of her perception of criminal acts instead of the perpertrators-----the men involved-----all she had to do was lock them up until trial time----if she was that worried about the children?

where was this lady for 6 years worth of news that we didn't want to hear about of sexual abuse of children in 1 of americas biggest denominations?

big churches have a license to abuse children but little churches are held to a higher standard ?

Originally posted by yahn goodey
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

from what i have read----1 female judge has decided the fate of 460+ children in taking them away from their mothers----strange i never read anything yet about a trial having taken place ? and yet its seems she has already sentenced the "victims" of her perception of criminal acts instead of the perpertrators-----the men involved-----all she had to do was lock them up until trial time----if she was that worried about the children?

Hi Yahn,
This post I made earlier seems to bear repeating:

posted on 26-4-2008 @ 06:03 PM

Were you aware of this information?


Take a look at the so-called "Birth Certificate" CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH where the mother signs and you will see the title of the box stating in small print:
"MOTHER OR OTHER INFORMANT".

The word "OTHER" makes the mother "an informant." By signing the "Birth Certificate" as an informer, she contracts with the government putting her child and her child's future labor as collateral for the national debt (servitude--slavery). The father or mother can rescind the contract within three business days (Truth-in-Lending).

Since the Birth Certificate neither lists the father as the husband nor lists the wife's acceptance of the father's surname as her own but has the mothers maiden name instead, the baby is considered a BASTARD. Bastards are therefore under the care and control of the Priest Rule (democracy) and can be taken from the mother at any time.The hospitals receive a fairly large monetary benefit ($3,000, more or less, per child) from the corporate government for having Birth Certificates filled out and signed.

www.usavsus.info...

[edit on 27-4-2008 by sizzle]

reply to post by ZenTam


I have seen examples of both, but rarely have I seen CPS actually get it right. CPS is evil all the way around as far as I'm concerned. If someone sees a child is living in a dangerous situtation, then a family member, friend, even a neighbor should sue for custody in a court of law. We don't need an arbitrary bureacracy stepping in when communities should be looking out for themselves.

Originally posted by sizzle

Originally posted by kennethmd
According to the state of Texas marrage law. Anyone at the age of 14-17 has to get parent premission to get marry. But if someone is over the age 18 and was marring someone under 18. They will both have to get both premission from the court and parents. And they can't be no more then 10 years of age apart from each other.

Actually, that is incorrect.
Under the age of 16, you cannot marry in the State of Tx even with parental consent.

Go read the Us state marrage law. Unless they had change it sence 2007. Your wrong. But if they had change it. Then you are right. Beside,they went after them. Because the teenage girl were married mens in their fifty.Which is more then ten year allow. Also there was in the news in Houston around 10 year ago. Between 98-2000 about a guy charge of having sex with a fourteen year old. But they found out that he had permission. Then they went by the 10 year limit rule. Seeing if he was more then 10 years then the girl age is. If I remember correctly. He was 10 years older the the girl.

reply to post by kennethmd


I am going by what was printed in the numerous newspaper articles about the case.
I opened the breaking news on this story. I have been following it intensely. I live almost 20 miles from where it took place. I also lived in very close proximity, when the Waco incident happened.
So maybe the laws have changed.
I am just telling you what the numerous newspaper articles in the area reported about Texas Law.

How are they suppose to determine which parents abused kids and which didn't when these children have no idea who their natural parents are? That's the reason the DNA was ordered to determine if there were older men having sex with 13 year olds and to also determine if these younger girls are the mothers of some of these children. And yes there are younger "boys" coming forward saying that they were removed/thrown out of the "compound" because they were competition. There have also been several individuals who "escaped" and have come forward as well about the abuse and sexual molestation that takes place. So, can we all wait to see what happens before we even think about putting innocent children back into a potentially lethal situation. Isn't it better to be safe than sorry? I really believe when all is said and done alot of the people on this thread with have to eat their words!

reply to post by sizzle


thanks sizzle----i assume you are telling us that every child born to that religion only had the signature of the mother on the birth certificate ?
i wonder if the mothers were informed of the law before signing?
do any of you that are americans realize that this is the law, that all of you are only the property of the state, unless your father payed for your freedom within 3 days of your birth?
i have been told by the police that ignorence of the law is no excuse for breaking it--------do you realize how big the book of laws is that an american cop showed me, they are supposed to enforce?its almost too thick for me to get my thumb and index thinger to hold it with,and like he said they cant possibly remember all the laws in it including old ones that they were once supposed to enforce.
so in other words----unless some trouble maker wants to get after the cops to prosecute something that no normal person could care less about, they wouldn't get involved in this crazyness.

i am a jew presently visiting in canada so your laws do not affect me this way------but talking to my wife about this situation she says if she was an american she'd never go to a hospital to have children, if we had to do it all over again.
i thank G-D our children days are over with-----the 2 we had put us through enough grief all by themselves with out the government making things worse by sticking their noses into our buisness.

my wife also asked how many of those girls in this so called cult had sexual diseases ?she figures none yet and also wonders how much money the usa government has to spend every year trying to come up with a cure or treatment for disease in the mainstream population that the state of texas government is hell bent on making these girls intergrate into ?

I have to agree. This IS a constitutional issue and a matter of law. But like many cases that have been tried in our courts (e.g., Sean Bell murder, tax evasion charges, etc.), the only evidence that is presented is what the courts allow. And then the courts make the decision without looking at all of the evidence--or even having any evidence of wrongdoing in front of them. You can believe the media hype if you want, but from what I have seen, the judge in this case has ruled based on popular opinion, which has been created by the media. If there are no objective findings, those children must be returned to their parents. As far as I can tell, there wasn't even an investigation by child protective services, which should have been the first step. When we allow our rulers to make judgments this way, we are all guilty.

Originally posted by cw034
Isn't it better to be safe than sorry? I really believe when all is said and done alot of the people on this thread with have to eat their words!

I don't think that this is a contest of who is right or wrong here. We all have a common interest and that is a concern for the children. There are many reasons to doubt the motives of our gov, and CPS.
I agree that above all that the children need to be protected. But how do we know that we are not sending them into worse environments?
As I have stated; There are no EASY answers. And I for one, do not wish for anyone to, "Eat their words."

reply to post by yahn goodey


I wasn't just referring to that religion. That reference is to every single person in the United States that has been issued a birth certificate, and the mother signs it. You have 3 days to opt out.
On the person's 18th birthday, they have 30 days to opt out. But when did anyone ever tell you this? THEY do not.
The way around it, is to record births in a family bible. It is recognized in every state in America.

Dear friends!

70 years ago, families were torn apart by courts and judges because they belonged to a minority, because they were different, believed and worshipped differently, behaved in a "weird" way; based on the assumption of their moral inferiority.

And everybody here knows where that madness led Europe - and eventually the whole world - to.

Today, families are being torn apart by courts and judges because they belong to a minority, because they are different, believe and worship differently, behave in a "weird way"; based on the assumption of their moral inferiority.

Where is this going to lead America - and eventually the whole world - to?

reply to post by sizzle


america the beautiful ?
verse 2
o beautiful for pilgrim feet,whose stern,impassioned stress a thoroughfare for FREEdom beat across the wilderness.america,america G-D mend thine every flaw,confirm thy soul in self control,thy LIBERTY in law ?

a beautifull song i have sung many times more than i can remember but now we find out that the government owns your butt if your parents were unaware of the laws of the land because no one remembered or wanted to tell them ?
sorry---- this makes me want to puke-----we are viewed by our governments of this world as just slaves ?

reply to post by yahn goodey


I am working on compiling some little known facts to help inform people of these little known facts. Not so long ago, I opened a thread on Capitas Diminutio Maxima. This was to inform people of what the, ALL CAPS of their names on legal documents, really meant.
The movie, Esoteric Agenda, really opened my eyes and launched me on a fact-finding journey.
There is a bible passage that states, "My people perish, for a lack of knowledge."
I would like to do my part to change that.

reply to post by yahn goodey


Americans have been private property since their sovereignty, and that of the government including state and local governments, were turned over to the receivers of the US bankruptcy in 1933.

Since then, we are no longer entitled to the rights defined as inalienable and outlined in the U.S. Constitution, we are arbitrarily extended privileges as a matter of public policy.

Here is a thread I started along these lines, but there is more that I have learned since then...

A Bigger Picture



[edit on 4/27/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by sizzle


thanks sizzle----obviously ignorance is not bliss once the party catches up with us saying---you owe me----too bad you didn't know what the law was.

i used to work for the government/military----35 years as a electrical mechanical power generator tech.and the whole way along with some of the entanglements i ended up in with my "superiors" it was the same situation of being told off for not following all their legal commands perfectly---never a complaint about the work not getting done----just some stupid infraction of not dotting an i exactly on its top.

i early on in my career informed them----this place is crazy-----before getting a government job as a janitor you would first have to obtain a law degree to deal with your rules and paperwork.

this assesment of mine held true for all 35 of those years of government service.

reply to post by sizzle


This is painful but the worst fears of those who do not trust CPS had about what CPS would do to the children have been realized two of the toddlers have now gone missing in the care of CPS. The CPS spokes idiot is claiming she not to woried about this event. Several of the small children have been hospitalized for dehydration. La leche and Doctors recommend that babies be nursed until at least age two. The unedecated judge decided that the babies over twelve months would be taken from their mothers. I think the babies should have been kept at the judges house so she could hear the sounds of thirsty babies crying for their mothers.

reply to post by eradown


eradown,
I''ve been busy and not kept up with the newslinks.
do you have one for this info?