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Legal questions follow polygamist raid

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posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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Legal questions follow polygamist raid


www.msnbc.msn.com

SAN ANGELO, Texas - The state of Texas made a damning accusation when it rounded up 462 children at a polygamous sect's ranch: The adults are forcing teenage girls into marriage and sex, creating a culture so poisonous that none should be allowed to keep their children.

The move has the appearance of "a class-action child removal," said Jessica Dixon, director of the child advocacy center at Southern Methodist University's law school in Dallas.
(visit the link for the full news article)



Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
CPS Questioning Children At Polygamist Compound, Could This be Another Waco Incident?
FLDS Hoax caller, also Obama delegate?




posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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The state of Texas came in and took all of the children from parents that belonged to a certain religious group. Then after taking their children they allowed their day in court where the court ruled in mass that the children should not return to their parents.

This bothers me and to me raises serious Constitutional questions, how can the court rule en mass like this, these families should have had individual court appearances.

It should have been a burden of the state to prove their was reason to remove these children on a case by case basis.

Whats next removing children because their parents are Evangelical, or Jehovah's Witness or Scientologist?

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:04 AM
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I don't see anything wrong with taking children from this harems that the only thing is teaching the children is that they can get away with this type of behavior in which males can have all the women they want.

I am sorry but is not way that any of those children living in these family harems would not be influenced by the promiscuity that the ruling male force over the younger girls in their groups.

It seems that communal sex is allowed freely and in the name of the God they worship.

If anybody see this as right then I guess we in this nation are truly without morals.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Does that mean that the State can take children from mothers that have casual sex? If the child sees a procession of sexual partners, is the message any different - men can have all the women they want, women can have all the men they want. Is it different to you because they all live in the same area?



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:31 AM
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This about an entire selfmade community rule by forced promiscuity and communal harems, hidding behind religion do not mades them right.

So denied ignorance.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I don't see anything wrong with taking children from this harems that the only thing is teaching the children is that they can get away with this type of behavior in which males can have all the women they want.


Is this your opinion or has this been proven in a court of law?


I am sorry but is not way that any of those children living in these family harems would not be influenced by the promiscuity that the ruling male force over the younger girls in their groups.


Again has this been proven case by case in a court of law?


It seems that communal sex is allowed freely and in the name of the God they worship.

If anybody see this as right then I guess we in this nation are truly without morals.


Lets put a face to these people, and really are the Amish next?
The FDLS Mothers Want Their Children Back

This news story is about is what has happened Constitutional? I say it is not!



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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I am greatly relieved by the horrible treatment and many wrongs being done to these people and by those who support and condone this treatment. Just like with the court finding those policemen not guilty after shooting that man in NYC 50 times; just like haw many people have stood by and condoned and supported many other wrongs...the list does not matter; it is like the story of Sodom...not being able to find 10 rigtheous men. Few deserve saving and we are being told to look to ourselves and our own and let the scum be washed away. So many are so corrupted and so deep in the belly of their corruptness that they have lost all comperhension of wrong. Thank you again



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Let a court of peers judge this behavior and you will see if they will agree or disagree with this type of moral issue.

The constitutional issues is a last straw to divert the attention of something that is a moral and social issue into a constitutional debate.

In American Polygamy is illegal and so is child abuse, pedophilia and molestation and rape of a minor.

In a court of law morality will influence the judgment specially when is children involved.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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I think we should all do it. All of us. When someone finds out there's a bunch of old weirdos trying to hump little girls, we drag them out and do them like Steven Rodriguez is you know what I mean...TERROR PLANET, the ball scene.

I'd post the video but then the mods would get restless, so here is a link that may or may not take you to that scene...

www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Let a court of peers judge this behavior and you will see if they will agree or disagree with this type of moral issue.


I'm not interested in discussing a moral issue, I'm interesting in discussing the constitution implications of what is going on.


The constitutional issues is a last straw to divert the attention of something that is a moral and social issue into a constitutional debate.


Hmmm it's only supposed to be our rule of law


In American Polygamy is illegal and so is child abuse, pedophilia and molestation and rape of a minor.


Agreed as well they all should be:

I waited a week to comment on the Texas case, separating 437 children from their FLDS parents, to see if any substantive evidence of abuse would emerge. It hasn't. Even if it had, those could have been handled individually. But no, Texas plans instead to make every member of the group pay the supreme price: to strip away their beloved children. This case is about group punishment. In spite of a search warrant tainted by a false witness (the "Sarah" who doesn't exist), no actual specific evidence of abuse, or any unwilling participants in this polygamous compound, a self-righteous Texas judge had decreed that all 400 + children will not be returned to the custody of their parents. Texas has gone too far to rid itself of this awkward religious sect that built the "Yearning for Zion" (YFZ) ranch in order to evade persecution in Utah and Arizona. As this tyrannical order clearly meant separating even nursing children from their mothers, a wave of outrage began to sweep the nation. The media-sensitive judge immediately changed her order (allowing children under 1 year of age to be nursed) in order to keep the tide of public relations on the side of the authorities. But this should not deter the nation from realizing the danger of the tenuous legal proposition that mere membership in a group (that may have isolated examples of marrying underage girls) makes all unworthy of possessing any children at all---ever. That is wrong, especially when legal remedies exist to prosecute specific wrongdoers.
FLDS RAID: DANGEROUS LEGAL PRECEDENT



In a court of law morality will influence the judgment specially when is children involved.


If there is evidence of wrong doing they should pay dearly for it, but are we still a constitutional republic or are we a religious theocracy with our laws now based on a certain religious morality?

Each family should have had there day in court, not ruled on en mass, from what it sounds like the Government has no evidence against these people.

So is hearsay now enough to take ones kid away? Is rumor?



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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Hello,
I originally opened the breaking news on this tragedy. I have expressed my views there, and if no one minds, I will again.
I do not believe in forced marriages nor forced sex. But neither do I believe in the show of military force that was imposed on this "COMPOUND," all because of a hoax. These children are my greatest concern. They are being ripped from everything they have ever known and will be placed with strangers. Where they will likely suffer rape, molestation and other types of abuses.
Edit:
Just wanted to add; Isn't it strange how the gov labels a place a 'compound' just before they wreak havoc on it?

[edit on 26-4-2008 by sizzle]



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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I dont understand why the state is doing this.

If its really because they marry girls at a young age, why did they
take the boys and the infants?


I dont like polygamy, but I dont look at it as bad, if others
practice it thats their business, it was practiced in the Bible.


These kids are so much better than most kids in regular society.
They have respect for others, they work hard, they have values and
morals, loyal to family. They are out working on a farm learning to
grow food, while most regular kids are playing video games and becoming overweight.


I really believe there is something else behind this. The state has an
ulterior motive, I just dont know what it is yet.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by josephine
 


Have you taken a good look at the beautiful real estate that they lived on? It's just my opinion, but before it's over with, I'd bet my last nickel that Texas will end up with that gorgeous property.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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Another issue that was brought up in my thread was an incident where a child in my neighborhood was taken by CPS, by accident. They had the wrong address. Rather than give the child back and move on, CPS built a case against those parents, because their utilities were temporarily turned off.
The child (white) was placed with non-english speaking Hispanic family. The child regressed and stopped talking. It took the parents over ayear to get her back.
Their lawyer hinted that there is a black market within CPS to gain control of white children (for unknown purposes).



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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Btw, The story above did not have a happy ending. The parents got their little girl back, but she suffered seperation-anxiety for a long time. She was combative and had acquired genital herpes.
Before this, this little girl was bright, haappy, well rounded and the light of her parents life. You would have thought they were the first people on earth to have ever given birth. They loved their little girl. They never gave up on her.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by pluckynoonez
 


Seconded.

Zero-tolerance to those who would evade that which is socially acceptable.

For more divine reasoning - The people who ran that place weren't exactly advertising, were they?

I'd almost be inclined to say they were keeping their little operation on the hush-hush, almost as if they didn't want the authorities to know about it.

Which is of course, tantamount to mass-subversion.

I would not wish any child to be brought up in an environment in which covert subversion was in place.



Originally posted by josephine
regular kids are playing video games


If the kids want to play videogames, then let them play videogames.

I'd just as much prefer they read books or something, but everyone needs to learn a bit of escapism while they can.

By escaping from Reality, it helps us understand it better when we finally stop running from it.

[edit on 26-4-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by Anti-Tyrant
 


If you read all the related stories,
you will find that everyone in the area
knew who these people were.
They did not necessarily agree with their lifestyle, but had to admit that they kept to themselves and din't present any problems to the community.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by sizzle
 


It wouldn't take much to turn 462 slaves of subversion into 462 hostages, would it?

Did you take that into account when you considered why people might not want to alert the authorities?

Like i said, mass-subversion.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 01:09 PM
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.well from what i am hearing is that alot of the younger kids have been found to be mothered by the older girls and fathered by the old men so since age of consent is i believe 17 in texas then they were stautory raped at the least by more likely sexually molested. freedom of religion is fine
freedom to commit atrocities while hiding behind religion is not,. and yes i know the catholic priests have been doing same think for centuries



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Anti-Tyrant
 


Frankly,
I have considered all angles of this mess. I do not see any happy endings here, no matter what happens. As I have stated before, I do not agree with the lifestyle. I do not believe in forced marriages and forced sex, but neither do I agree with the way Texas is handling this situation.




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